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sspssp
Aug 26, 2004, 10:14 PM
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I was in the middle of responding to this thread when it got locked. I can understand there might be a lot of reasons for locking a thread, but this one hadn't degenerated to a flame war or dangerous info. I guess I'm curious why it is locked and maybe when threads are locked an indication of why could be given.
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jt512
Aug 26, 2004, 10:19 PM
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I posted my reason for locking the thread. It probably posted while you were writing your response. I hope I didn't cause you to lose what you wrote.
Feel free to start another thread with your response.
-Jay
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 26, 2004, 10:40 PM
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alpnclmbr1 moved this thread from Beginners to Suggestions & Questions.
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beesty511
Aug 26, 2004, 11:24 PM
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In reply to: Reason: Meaning of original question is unclear, causing the thread to go to nowhere in a hurry.
jt512 can demean, insult, and belittle people repeatedly in threads, but apparently if he believes a thread is not worth exploiting to make personal attacks, he can lock the thread.
...and that is why I boycott any sponsor of this site. I encourage others to do the same.
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dingus
Aug 26, 2004, 11:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Reason: Meaning of original question is unclear, causing the thread to go to nowhere in a hurry. jt512 can demean, insult, and belittle people repeatedly in threads, but apparently if he believes a thread is not worth exploiting to make personal attacks, he can lock the thread. ...and that is why I boycott any sponsor of this site.
I find myself nodding vigorously in parallel with Beesty. I think jt512s stated reason for locking that thread is totally bogus.
Phil, if this is where you guys are going with the Beginners Forum then you're going down a shit hole. Just call it the jt512 forum, or the ptpp forum, or whatever megalomaniac wants to run the show, and be done with it.
Hey jt, why don't you ask the questions too Bro, save all us morons the trouble.
SHEESH!
DMT
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asandh
Aug 26, 2004, 11:49 PM
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:)
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kman
Aug 27, 2004, 12:13 AM
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Some one needs to keep the sh!t info and unclear questions in check. Good job Jay!!
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tyify
Aug 27, 2004, 12:32 AM
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What is the link to the forum? I smell revolution...haha :roll: :roll:
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 27, 2004, 12:55 AM
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As has been stated a few times now that the beginners forum is in a state of evolution. That means we are trying to find new and more creative ways of delivering a quality experience to those that wish to use that forum. We certainly are not going to get every decision right as the mods explore ways of trying to deliver that quality. I am very open to any and all input on how we develop the beginners forum.
I very much wish to see a quality forum develop. I would like to see that devlop through an informative, educative and consultative aproach.
Do feel free to give feedback whenever the needs arises.
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curt
Aug 27, 2004, 1:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Reason: Meaning of original question is unclear, causing the thread to go to nowhere in a hurry. jt512 can demean, insult, and belittle people repeatedly in threads, but apparently if he believes a thread is not worth exploiting to make personal attacks, he can lock the thread.
Yes, this does mean the end of the world as we know it.
Curt
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boku
Aug 27, 2004, 1:02 AM
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Whenever I need to lock a thread, I use an itty-bitty GriGri that you can only see with a magnifying glass. Works great when belaying newts and salamaders. ;}
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jt512
Aug 27, 2004, 3:10 AM
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In reply to: I think jt512s stated reason for locking that thread is totally bogus.
As Phil mentioned, we are trying to improve the quality of information in the Beginners Forum. One pattern that is common in the Beginners forum (and others) is that a poorly thought out or ambiguous question is asked. Then, because the question is poorly worded, the responses are confusing. Add in responses from other beginners taking guesses at the answer, and the thread becomes a waste of bandwidth at best, dangerous at worst. The Beginners forum has never been intended as a chatroom for beginners, yet that is what it has largely become. Its purpose is to provide a place where beginners can get reliable information from more experienced climbers. The current structure of that forum is not appropriate for that purpose, and we are looking at different ways of structuring the forum to make it more useful. In the meantime, Phil has posted a notice asking that beginners refrain from answering questions they are not qualified to answer. Phil, I think you should add to that notice, that beginners think their questions out well, and put some effort into wording them clearly, so that they can get the useful answers they seek. Badly worded questions lead to confusion. Garbage in, garbage out. Until we are able to provide a better structure for the beginners forum, it will be moderated more closely.
Now, oddly enough, the original post in that thread, and the post where he reasasked the same question -- apparently because none of the responses actually answered the question he asked -- later in the thread have disappeared.
And I expect BS like this from Beesty. Dingus, I'm a little surprised that you would have jumped to the erroneous conclusions that you did.
-Jay
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 27, 2004, 3:43 AM
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Good call Jay on rewording the sticky to ask beginners to carefully word their question.
If anyone else has clear and concise input I will be happy to take it up.
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 27, 2004, 3:49 AM
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In terms of the threads in the beginners forum, that I have been watching in the last week or so.
This was easily the most appropriate thread to lock in an effort to provide a higher standard of information..
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nicebooty
Aug 27, 2004, 3:53 AM
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u people who have the power to lock threads and whatever, think your liek total dictators or something. the question i asked was a general question. someone taught me it when i first started climbing, and was just wodnerign if anybody else did it also. if you dont like the question, dont f$#cking answer it. theres to much politic crap on this site. if u dont like it, dont write anything. jeez
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 27, 2004, 3:58 AM
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So post your question again and try to be clearer about what you are asking.
Problem solved,unless you are a troll looking for trouble.
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timstich
Aug 27, 2004, 4:04 AM
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The problem with just locking threads when they go south is that the bad ideas are once again swept under the rug. If you let them be known and a respected poster on the site dismantles them, then that serves a good purpose. But when you just lock the thread, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of other participants. It comes across more like a time out.
If you want a source of good information, start a nice FAQ like on tradgirl.com. You can refine/edit it as you go. When a dumb question comes up, send them to the FAQ. As holes in the FAQ become apparant, fill them with new patches. Let the forum be what it is, otherwise.
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jt512
Aug 27, 2004, 4:09 AM
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I'd also recommend that you post it in the Gear Heads forum, and explain what your main tie-in knot is and what exactly you mean by "Yosemite finish." A question that is essentially a poll about whether other climbers use a "Yosemite finish" is not what the Beginners forum is for.
-Jay
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phugganut
Aug 27, 2004, 5:55 AM
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Maybe we should just make it so that all posts get screened by a mod. Then if they, in their wisdom, deem it a good post (ie worthy subject that's worded in a way that they find clear) then they will allow it to be posted. :roll:
PS: Saying that noobs can't answer questions in that forum is absurd because many of the "experts" on this site are probably noobs themselves.
Edited to add the little rolling eyes smily thing as the sarcasm was apparently missed.
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curt
Aug 27, 2004, 6:42 AM
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In reply to: Maybe we should just make it so that all posts get screened by a mod. Then if they, in their wisdom, deem it a good post (ie worthy subject that's worded in a way that they find clear) then they will allow it to be posted. PS: Saying that noobs can't answer questions in that forum is absurd because many of the "experts" on this site are probably noobs themselves.
Pretty much by definition, n00bs and experts are at opposite ends of the climbing spectrum.
Curt
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 27, 2004, 6:46 AM
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That is why I have posted the terms experts rather than n00bs because as you so rightly point out postcount does not equate to experience out on the rock. For instance if Reinhold Messner were to post here he may well be computer illiterate but he would undoubtedly be someone who we all could call expert. How well he would post if he were indeed computer illiterate would be something that would remain to be seen.
A n00b at a computer does not necessarily mean a n00b at climbing and the reverse is also true.
We have discussed in the M&E forum the notion of queueing questions for the review of a panel of experts before releasing them with an answer for the general user base to then have their say on the subject. That may be something that might come about in the future.
I`m very much wishing as much input as I can get on the beginners forum. At this stage we are up to having put a notice calling on all who visit the forum to think carefully and craft both their questions and answers carefully. There has also been a noticable lift in the quality of posts in that forum since we have all been talking about lifting the quality in there.
That forum has been giving quite a few of us both users and staff considerable angst for some time now. The forum will not change overnight but I am sure with our cooperative efforts we can make that forum a much higher quality place than it has been in the past.
Please continue to contribute your thoughts on the beginners forum. They are apreciated and they certainly add much to the debate for that evolving forum. I am not ruling anything either in or out but it may be that out of the collective wisdom we will take bits and pieces and come to a consensus that will satisfy the majority. More than that I hope that it will satisfy the experts and experienced climbers amongst us such that the forum becomes what it has promise to become and that is a place where beginner climbers can go to to find quality information.
I hope that this is what we all wish for.
Carry on, Phil out for now, gotta take the missus whale watching.
...Phil...
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diesel___smoke
Aug 27, 2004, 6:47 AM
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You should just inform users when they sign up for this website that they are ridin' b!tch, and skiing with those in contol... which would be about the truest statement.
Haha
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phugganut
Aug 27, 2004, 6:51 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Maybe we should just make it so that all posts get screened by a mod. Then if they, in their wisdom, deem it a good post (ie worthy subject that's worded in a way that they find clear) then they will allow it to be posted. PS: Saying that noobs can't answer questions in that forum is absurd because many of the "experts" on this site are probably noobs themselves. Pretty much by definition, n00bs and experts are at opposite ends of the climbing spectrum. Curt
Yes, that is true. However, my point was that some of the self-purported experts on this site are really noobs pretending to be experienced.
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curt
Aug 27, 2004, 7:10 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Maybe we should just make it so that all posts get screened by a mod. Then if they, in their wisdom, deem it a good post (ie worthy subject that's worded in a way that they find clear) then they will allow it to be posted. PS: Saying that noobs can't answer questions in that forum is absurd because many of the "experts" on this site are probably noobs themselves. Pretty much by definition, n00bs and experts are at opposite ends of the climbing spectrum. Curt Yes, that is true. However, my point was that some of the self-purported experts on this site are really noobs pretending to be experienced.
I agree with you completely and that is the heart of the issue--in regards to reforming the beginners forum. It would be nice to increase the responses from those who know what the hell they are talking about--while at the same time, minimizing or eliminating advice given by the "arm chair" quarterbacks.
Easier said than done, though I suppose.
Curt
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