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climbfrog
Aug 31, 2004, 6:11 AM
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Just that. What makes a climber an "EXPERT"?
Is the term used too loosly?
Yes I know I'm a crap speller!
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maculated
Aug 31, 2004, 6:15 AM
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What is wisdom?
What is experience?
What is a moniker?
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holdplease2
Aug 31, 2004, 6:18 AM
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What is a Maculated?
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 31, 2004, 6:20 AM
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Here is my definition of an expert. (in this context anyway)
Someone who knows the difference between what he thinks, what he knows, and what he doesn't know.
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kachoong
Aug 31, 2004, 6:30 AM
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...is it then.... what he knows he thinks..... OR.... what he thinks he knows?
...or maybe it's what he thinks we know what he thinks he knows what WE think?....
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maculated
Aug 31, 2004, 6:39 AM
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I've always thought that a person who might be coined an expert is one who is reluctant to declare him/herself one. The more you know, the more you don't know.
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squish
Aug 31, 2004, 6:39 AM
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There are known knows--there are thing we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns--that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns--the ones we don't know we don't know.
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godskid5
Aug 31, 2004, 6:46 AM
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an "expert" is someone who is an expert at doing what he does expertly!
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cgailey
Aug 31, 2004, 7:18 AM
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Boy, I'm glad I took philosophy!
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dontfall
Aug 31, 2004, 11:57 AM
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I think the Oracle can predict this answer for us.
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slobmonster
Aug 31, 2004, 12:48 PM
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A woman approaches a priest on a beach.
She says to him, "Excuse me Father, but you're in my son."
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jammin
Aug 31, 2004, 1:32 PM
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An expert is someone who thinks he knows everything but actually has a very limited sphere of knowledge.
A wise man is someone who has great knowledge, but knows where that knowledge ends.
I know many "expert" climbers but very few wise ones.
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dingus
Aug 31, 2004, 3:01 PM
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In reply to: I've always thought that a person who might be coined an expert is one who is reluctant to declare him/herself one.
Criteria #1 for your new experts forum... you can't think of yourself as an expert. (yer gonna have some trouble with your panel of non-experts I think... they seem pretty content with the expert mantle.)
DMT
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dingus
Aug 31, 2004, 3:03 PM
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In reply to: I know many "expert" climbers but very few wise ones.
I on the other hand know several wise climbers. And they are, not uncoincidentally, experts as well. Ah well, your loss is my gain.
Cheers
DMT
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p_grandbois
Aug 31, 2004, 3:25 PM
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Occams razor here people.....simple, one who is qualified, has expertise(which amounts from basic knowledge) and is experienced in his art. You can rip each individual qualification up to peices, but like rock climbing, sometimes you have to settle for less than perfect when it is all that is available. That is an expert.
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robmcc
Aug 31, 2004, 3:43 PM
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In reply to: Here is my definition of an expert. (in this context anyway) Someone who knows the difference between what he thinks, what he knows, and what he doesn't know.
...and is right. A lot of people think they know those things. Some of them are wrong. Incompetents are the last to realize their incompetence.
Rob
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jcr
Aug 31, 2004, 3:52 PM
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I dont think being an expert on climbing has anything to do with how hard you climb...
I think being an expert implies you knowing abundantly about the matter, how to react in difficult or dangerous situations, how to treat gear, etc...
making a long idea short:
- being a professional climber = climbing hard
- being an expert climber = gear and safetywise
JC
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fracture
Aug 31, 2004, 4:03 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Here is my definition of an expert. (in this context anyway) Someone who knows the difference between what he thinks, what he knows, and what he doesn't know. ...and is right. A lot of people think they know those things. Some of them are wrong. Incompetents are the last to realize their incompetence.
That's difficult, as you need the services of another expert to determine if he is right.
...Which comes down to whether they agree.
WRT the proposed "Experts" forum, we have precisely that problem, because on many issues regarding climbing safety the "correct" answer is either not very well established, or is well established and wrong (e.g. microfractures).
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robmcc
Aug 31, 2004, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Here is my definition of an expert. (in this context anyway) Someone who knows the difference between what he thinks, what he knows, and what he doesn't know. ...and is right. A lot of people think they know those things. Some of them are wrong. Incompetents are the last to realize their incompetence. That's difficult, as you need the services of another expert to determine if he is right. ...Which comes down to whether they agree.
Which comes back to consensus, which is what we have now.
Rob
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jammer
Aug 31, 2004, 4:36 PM
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An expert to me is the one with the most experience. An example of this is when you are in a group, the person who knows the most is the groups expert ... sad n' scarry :shock: but it's what is has become. :roll:
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 31, 2004, 4:54 PM
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These days an expert is anyone who ammasses enough credentials (real or not) to declare themselvs an expert. Once they declare expert status they hire themselfs out to sleezy defense laywers and spew missinformation from the wittness stand.
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camhead
Aug 31, 2004, 4:57 PM
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An expert climber is a SERIOUS climber.
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petsfed
Aug 31, 2004, 5:04 PM
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Wow, this went all Socratic really fast.
Expert, pfft. Expert climbers don't exist. If you aren't still learning, you're either dead, retired, or both.
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verticallaw
Aug 31, 2004, 5:07 PM
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I think........ I think I am......... I think ?
experts don't exist, only people who pose as experts to dupe newbies
closest your gonna get is a guide and even then it can be a judgment call.
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thomasribiere
Aug 31, 2004, 5:29 PM
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Auto-declared experts must be taken with circonspection.
Usually, an expert is considered so by his experimented peers who recognise in him both his knowledge and the ability to put his knowledge in practice and maybe share it or use it to make a final decision in a difficult case.
Which makes DJmeat, thrasher, danooguy, camhead, skibbie and many of us experts (each in different categories). :wink:
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