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estwing
Sep 1, 2004, 9:14 PM
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Registered: Mar 24, 2002
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Hi, don't judge me too harshly, but I have some beta and gear questions about this climb.
First the supertopo has a rack listed, but is not that specific.
What hooks do I need?
Do I really need RP style micro nuts, if I have small regular nuts?
Will I need a double of my partners blue Alien?(doubles of other sizes are covered)
There is mention made of bringing heads to replace any that may be missing, which sizes should I aquire?
Can you rent a haul bag in the valley?
The topo also says that it is easy to retreat from the climb, with the exception of the first two pitches. Could someone explain how it is easy to bail from higher up? Do you avoid the difficulties in this way?
Thank you kindly for your advice
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flamer
Sep 1, 2004, 9:34 PM
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Registered: Oct 22, 2002
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Ok It's been over a year so I'll do my best.
And just so you know, I'm intentionally NOT telling you to do a search...because I think the search function blows.
Hooks- take a cliff hanger and a talon. You don't "need" them really but there are some spots where it's faster(and maybe alittle more reliable) to hook. They are not super crucial however.
Micro nuts- YES! Bring at least 1 set of RP's!! However!!! HB OFFSETS ARE THE SHIZZLE(yes i said shizzle- I'm really a gangsta').
Yes take the double Aliens. Don't take double's of anything bigger than a #1 camalot.
Heads- take small ones. nothing bigger than a #3. That being said ask around when you get to the valley you might not need any if the fixed ones are in good shape(I'll probably get hell for saying that from the "you should always take everything you MIGHT need folks...).
Haulbag rentals....there was a guy in the valley renting Ledges I would guess he was renting pigs too...he had a note posted on the board.
However!!! The WFLT is a VERY steep wall...you could totally get away with an Army surplus duffel bag on this one...not the best idea but cheap and you won't be dragging it across rocks.
Bailing- the reason it's difficult to back off the first 2 pitch's is because they are wicked steep! It's totally doable but a definite pain in the ARSE!!
HAVE FUN!!
josh
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iamthewallress
Sep 1, 2004, 9:42 PM
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In reply to: What hooks do I need?
I used only one...a big Petzl Ibis. A cliff hanger, Fish hook, or similar would work just as well. I'd bring two if I did it again.
In reply to: Do I really need RP style micro nuts, if I have small regular nuts?
I would bring a set of micros. Mine are HBs.
In reply to: Will I need a double of my partners blue Alien?(doubles of other sizes are covered)
No. Especially if you have nuts. The route does not have continuous splitters, so you don't need a lot of repeat gear...plus there's so much fixed that you can safely back clean a lot if you're worried about running low. Warren Harding did not have a blue alien. ;-) Honestly, I don't remember many tiny placements on the route.
In reply to: There is mention made of bringing heads to replace any that may be missing, which sizes should I aquire?
The heads tend to be closely spaced and often are in places where an alien would do anyway. I would not bother w/ heads and a hammer. Bring a camhook, a beak, and a cheat stick instead.
In reply to: Can you rent a haul bag in the valley?
There's a place near the valley, but the route is so steap that you could probably haul a sturdy duffel.
In reply to: The topo also says that it is easy to retreat from the climb, with the exception of the first two pitches. Could someone explain how it is easy to bail from higher up? Do you avoid the difficulties in this way?
The bailing up high is easy till you get to the first two pitches...and then it gets hard again. Really hard. Trust me. The best way to avoid difficulties is to climb all night long if you must, but do not bail.
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flamer
Sep 1, 2004, 9:45 PM
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HEY!! STOP COPYING ME>>>MELISSA!!!!
josh-the first to answer easy questions!!
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crotch
Sep 1, 2004, 9:48 PM
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In reply to: Will I need a double of my partners blue Alien?(doubles of other sizes are covered)
You might use them on the traverse pitch off of Guano Ledge. I remember using some slider nuts there and a couple of small cams.
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dagawebb
Sep 2, 2004, 12:10 AM
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Registered: May 13, 2003
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Hi There,
I did the route about 4 weeks ago. Here you go,
Pitch One: When you get to the small roof on pitch one there was a fixed head missing. If it has not been replaced by the time you get to the wall you will have to either stick clip the piton up high (about 1.5m) or there are two hook moves to get you to the piton.
Pitch Two: Nothing great just a bolt ladder
Pitch three: If there are heads blown this will be the pitch, there were none blown when I did it but hell knows now. You need small heads to size three. At the top of this pitch it talks about a hook placement to get to the ledge. You can do a blind .4 Micro camalot placement (yellow Alien) where the ledge meets the wall, get high and top step and you will see it. You will use cam hooks on this one.
Pitch 4: Nothing hard easy pitch Cam hooks
Pitch 5: Traversing pitch use you HB offsets and aliens on this pitch, dont backclean too much or you will stuff over your cleaner.
Pitch 6: Nothing hard there is a cam hook or hook placement not far off the belay just go for it. There is a marginal micro nut (smallest) placement there but hard to find.
Pitch 7: You use a heap of gear on this pitch.You need to backclean and leepfrog gear like a madman on this pitch. Be careful of the rope drag as you get high it can be a killer take heaps of slings. You will use heaps of nuts and HB offsets on this pitch. You will need to leapfrog .2 Microcamalot towards the top on this pitch.
Pitch 8 and 9: Easy pitch with roof watch the rope drag, you may use a cam hook as the last placement before getting onto the ledge. Link 8 and 9 take heaps of slings on this pitch.
Pitch 10: Easy pitch heaps of fixed gear all the way up. When you top out DO NOT go over to where there are three bolts on a large ledge you will create havoc for the cleaner and the haulbags will fly forever, use the piton and the bolt where the end of the small traverse is.
Hooks: I had a talon, cliffhanger and bat hook. you dont need bat hook but i would take the talon and cliffhanger.
Cam Hooks: dont need the smallest and largest ones but do take the two in between.
HB Offsets: I had two sets and that was good,
Normal Wires: I had two sets and used heaps on this pitch and used bugger all cams.
Hope I have given too much if I have someone tell me but take what you want from it.
Have fun
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flamer
Sep 2, 2004, 12:22 AM
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In reply to: Hope I have given too much if I have someone tell me but take what you want from it.
What you have given was/is very good beta. PLUS, it was hell'a entertaining in the Aussie kind'a way!
josh
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waynski
Sep 2, 2004, 6:24 AM
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Registered: Sep 1, 2004
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At the risk of sounding oldschool, I don't remember using anything on that route but some primitive wired stoppers, some heads, hexes, and the obligatory assortment of pins. The only hook we had was a "ring angle claw" that we made. Of course that was over twenty years ago. I'm sure it's not the same route. Just remember that there are more ways to do something than the guy who wrote the guidebook might make you believe. Having the right gear has rarely been an impediment to my success.
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karlbaba
Sep 2, 2004, 4:03 PM
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Registered: Jul 10, 2002
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The fancy gear helps and makes things easier, but the Tower was still not that hard before it was all invented. If you have real financial run-out, make do with what you have.
If you're going to buy that stuff sooner or later anyway, here's your excuse.
Peace
Karl
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coylec
Sep 2, 2004, 8:49 PM
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Registered: Jul 12, 2003
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Highly recommended ... great reading. :D
coylec
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estwing
Sep 3, 2004, 2:27 AM
Post #12 of 17
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Registered: Mar 24, 2002
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Thanks for all the good beta, and cool comments.
Keep them coming if you have more.
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t-dog
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Sep 24, 2004, 5:41 PM
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Just did the route last weekend, completely clean & hammerless and I'm no aid god by a long shot so here's what I got from it:
I used 2 talon hooks and used them in a row right off the belay of pitch 3 ( you could probably get around that if you can top-step well or if you have a cheater stick though)
I used lots of RPs (actually, make that a scary amount!!!), including some HB offsets, and for a lot of those, regular nuts would not have worked. Definetly bring a double set of nuts, as P7 eats them up like a cop eats donuts :shock:
I don't know what size the blue alien is but I found myself wishing that I had more than doubles of the blue and yellow Metolius TCU/FCU as they fit awesome in the pin scars.
From what I could tell, don't even bother with bringing back-up heads. It went down pretty easily (although sometimes scary) clean.
Uhm, as for retreating from the route, avoid the difficulties by topping out. Seriously though, I soloed the route so I had to rap every pitch and on every single pitch I had to jumar back into the anchors at least 10-20 feet, so if the rope you're rapping isn't clipped into the bottom anchors, you're in for some fun middle of the sky swinging action!!!!!
Enjoy, the route's a blast!!!!!!!
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moof
Sep 24, 2004, 10:27 PM
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Registered: Oct 17, 2003
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I just got off yesterday. For the rack I recommend:
#2 and #3 slider nuts. They bailed me out several times, but are an SOB to clean
2 black aliens
2 blue aliens
3-4 green aliens (I placed about 5 on pitch 7 alone, using extensive back cleaning)
3-4 yellow aliens (same story here)
2-3 red aliens (had three but back cleaning never made me run out)
1 set offset aliens were damn nice, making bomber C1 placements in tricky spots that would have been C2 without.
2 each 0.75-#2 camalot
1 each #3, #3.5 camalot or equivalent friend.
If you link pitches 9 and 10, save or backclean the big artillary for the top of pitch 10. I didn't and had to get "creative" while fully fried in the dark. Be careful about the rope getting hung up in the crotch at the end of the final roof on pitch 10. I thought my partner died, but the rope was just caught there leaving no tension on the lead line.
1 set #3-8 offset HB stoppers (used a little, but very helpful in those spots)
1 set normal RP brass (I placed very few nuts, but they are still needed)
1 set normal stoppers
I had a lot of brass and normal nuts that just never got used. The tiniest couple sizes never got used.
1 each middle two cam hooks, grappling hook, cliffhanger hook, and talon. More than that if you have butter fingers, but not needed.
50-70 free biners, very important. I had about 45 and kept having to consolidate to free more up. Building the final belay got creative.
10 tie-offs. Many fixed pins have mank, replace them or back them up to keep you head from popping off as you look down at the long string of rusty cracked pins with rotting webbing below you.
The ledge at pitch 9 didn't look all that bad, I'd say marginal bivy for 2, poor for 3. I didn't hang around to see how hard it would be to set up anchors for the upper part of the ledge.
The top ledge is huge. Probably would fit more like 6-8, not 3. Again, anchors would be an issue to fully utilize the flat spots, but it's got a loft and a guest bedroom compared to Awanhee. There is a decent fixed line from Awahnee to the top, I was able to clip into a loop before the easy mantle to the ramp to the top.
The supertopo didn't really match what we found for raps. We did a 70' right from the top to a tree, then a 200' to the crotch (there are several decent ledges near the base, we rapped as far as the rope let us). Many chimney raps are linkable. Keep rapping till you pass the middle mark on your rope and then stop at the next station. The first dude down need to be careful. I would wear the haulbag for the middle low angle raps. I knocked a rock loose and got a coreshot on my almost new rope. Once you exit the gully there is a 60' rappel to a bush with a manky station. From there it is about 150' to the ground.l It may be possible to skip this station, but you can't see the rope ends so don't skip it. It would be nice if someone with a drill kit would pop a real bolt or two here before the bush dies.
Make sure you and your partner are well practices at cleaning traverses. The overhung nature forces you to clean much of the route as if it were traversing (clipping over the top jug and lowering off the last piece).
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kpalsson
Nov 3, 2004, 3:56 AM
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Registered: Jan 16, 2004
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Lots and lots of nuts if you can't afford lots and lots of cams :)
We took one very full set of nuts, some RPs, which I don't think I used at all. some HB offsets, that we used a little bit, and triples of blue alien/purple tcu through to yellow alien, then doubles to yellow camalot, then singles to purple camalot. Only used the big camalot on the last linked pitch (we linked, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8, 9/10 on supertopo)
Only thing I would say that might come in handy might be some narrow tape for replacing tat on pins, it's really helpful for lowering out on when you backclean extensively. Oh, and be prepared for some sweeet rides cleaning. (I got the 5/6 and the 9/10 cleans, and got some kickass swings) at least have an idea of how to clean properly overhanging stuff.
Don't bother doing "long grade IVs" to get used to long stuff. Unless you want to. Just suck it up. If you can make it to Ahwahnee, you're all good. cleaning the first double pitch is probably the hardest thing you'll do if you've not done much aid before.
Or something. It's fun.
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cybele
Nov 3, 2004, 7:35 PM
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Registered: Sep 7, 2004
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Contrary to the post several back that mentioned not using the smallest size micronuts, I found that I used my tiniest sizes several times, perhaps because I do not own any aliens, or perhaps because I like micronut placements. My most useful hook for the few (and bomber) hook moves was a cliffhanger, though if there is no fixed knifeblade in pitch one where the dead heads are (someone left a pin there recently -- redundant, but makes it a snap), a talon is useful for a bat hook hole to the right. There is one spot on a higher pitch where two hook moves in a row are neccessary unless you are a giant or can do some scary free moves to the belay. I will mention too there is a small head whose wires have broken off this summer (was usable in July when I did Wet Denim) at the top of the head run on Pitch 3, leaving an, er, interesting section that I solved with my smallest micronut, then another (I'm short) teeny micro, horizontally placed, to the blind TCU placement, and which the party behind me solved with an really poor alien and a micronut to a rather bold (in both their and my opinion) free mantel move. I maybe should have replaced the head rather than stand on the worst micronut I have ever placed. My head kit was at the last belay and I had no handy partner to zip it up to me. Arguably a bad gumby soloist mistake even on LT. I must say, initially my little dream was to remove all dead heads (there's a bunch), but a party of 2 behind me from the first pitch was pushing me and I couldn't take the time, or wuld have had to give up half a day letting them pass. Darn it! Was better that way cause we all summited as the "death storm" started and I had to really fight hypothermia and nasty waterfalls to get out the gully rappels -- fortunately I avoided getting brained by one of the many rocks that hurtled down the chimneys, loosened by the rain. Might be worth mentioning that the bottleneck of the gully system, just below the new multi-bolt rap station on the climber's left of gully, becomes super difficult to pass in prolonged rain. By evening after the first full day of rain, the flow through the bottleneck plumed up at least three feet as it surged over the drop there. Looked like something you could kayak, and something I sure wasn't passing under with a 100-some pound haulbag alone in the cold. I bivied at the hanging station, passing out repeatedly, but not sleeping, from vicious shivering cold and exhaustion, and rapped in the morning when the gully flow had fortunately abated a little. If you can steer to the left there, and avoid the tightest part of the constriction for part of that rope length, it'd be safer objectively from any falling rocks. I think that's partly the point of the new station there, but the wet slab made steering left impossible and I was pulled into the bottleneck. It's 5 single rope raps from there to the ground I think (and by about then you're wondering if it'll ever end), 4 raps if you double rope the last one, and yes, from the "crappy tree" belay out on the face, two 60m ropes together easily reach the ground. For peace of mind, as you approach and bypass the last, hanging station, you can visually verify that your rope ends do touch down. Single rope raps from in the gully till there mandated for pulling. Sorry I went on and on. Spewing!! Enjoy.
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simzboardr
Nov 17, 2004, 6:22 AM
Post #17 of 17
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Registered: May 9, 2002
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sounds like everyone nailed the gear list. The first few pitches are mainly bolt ladders so learn how to move fast on them and you will make a much quicker ascent. Bring extra supplies to spend another day or two on the wall if weather is bad, the hauling is really easy and its a biotch to bail. We bailed off of guano due to extreme heat in mid summer and it absolutly sucked having to down aid a lot of stuff to stay against the overhanging wall. Enjoy the view and i would recomend fixing the first pitch just so you can go back and take the giant swing from the first ledge.
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