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actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 10:32 PM
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I wanted to start a new thread about the use of cordelettes. I'm blown away at the # of people that say they don't climb with at least one. I always carry two on longer routes. For those of you who don't use them, I hate to sound like a crusty know it all, but I'd say it's time to re-evaluate your climbing systems. Don't take this the wrong way, I climbed for years before I clued in to how valuable of a piece of gear this is to your rack. This is not to harsh people, but to share knowledge. 1st of all, don't use the climbing rope in the anchor. You may end up needing it in the event of a rescue. And don't think that because it hasn't happened that it won't ever. 2nd, how do you pass knots or do raises or take a load off of the main anchor point without one. Not to mention it's much cleaner and faster for anchors. Anyway, let's see where this goes.
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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 10:35 PM
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In reply to: I'm blown away at the lack of people that say they don't climb with at least one.
Don't follow you here mate. What are you blown about?
DMT
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actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 10:37 PM
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My bad. not the lack but the numbers. :oops:
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slobmonster
Sep 1, 2004, 10:39 PM
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In reply to: Anyway, let's see where this goes.
To heck in a handbasket.
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actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 10:40 PM
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Slob
you're a guide help me out.
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reno
Sep 1, 2004, 10:46 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'm blown away at the lack of people that say they don't climb with at least one. Don't follow you here mate. What are you blown about?
I *think* he's saying that everyone should have a cordlette on every climb.
I *think*... Could be wrong.
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petsfed
Sep 1, 2004, 10:51 PM
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In reply to: I'm blown away at the lack of people that say they don't climb with at least one.
So you're upset that people do use them? I'm confused. Your post indicates just the opposite.
To whit: Cordolettes are a handy tool in the tool box. However, they are not a panacea for every anchor. After all, one does not tighten a bolt with a hammer. The resourceful and knowledgable climber will realize that sometimes a cordolette is all wrong. One piece anchors for instance. Or anchors with exceedingly odd angles to them. Top out anchors on a single pitch climb. And two cordolettes can be excessive. Improvisation can (and will) work just as well. I don't think your toolbox is quite as deep as it should be.
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actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 11:05 PM
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I didn't suggest that every anchor on every climb requires a cordelette. What I'm saying is it opens up many more options for use as an anchor or in self rescue. What am I missing from my toolbox? And the reason 2 is not exsessive is if you have used one in an anchor and then you have to perform a rescue with the other or build an anchor on the next pitch. I didn't come up with this stuff you guys I'm just sharing the wealth of climbing knowledge. These methods are becoming more of a standard and you can take it with as many grains of salt as you want. However if you're convinced the way you've always done it is the only way then don't listen to a word of this.
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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 11:23 PM
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In reply to: I didn't suggest that every anchor on every climb requires a cordelette. What I'm saying is it opens up many more options for use as an anchor or in self rescue. What am I missing from my toolbox?
See tht title of the thread up there actionfigger? Didn't YOU write that? But what do I know?
I use silly daisies, I avoid lap coiling whenever possible and if block leading I would prefer to switch ends to pile flips. And yet, I have and do climb without dasies, I own several well used cordelettes and have flipped enough ropes to know there will be tangles in almost every resulting pile.
I call that a flexible toolbox. You started with a well meant call for everyone to reevaluate their systems. Fair enough. Does that REALLY apply to everyone? I concede the escapability of a cordelette anchor system may be superior to a dirt bag rope anchor. No way is it faster though, or more efficient over all, once escapability is dismissed. It may be preferrable in a given situation or to a given climber, but that's just what it is, preference.
Its like a rack. Some people tote their entire arsenal up every pitch. Others prefer to cull the rack to the basest of minimums. And for a very few, minimization is their style, their bag. Minimizing means sacrificing convenience for, well, the minimum. I can climb with a big modern power rack, two cordelettes, lockers on everything, brand new half ropes, singles, whatever. I can also climb with an old school minimum rack, a single rope and a few slings. Overall I prefer light-is-right to honking-take-everything. Again, preference. My choice. But I have my reasons. With a light is right mindset and a full helping of alpine approaches on my plate, I assure you in no uncertain terms, a cordelette is totally unnecessary.
Cordelettes on big wall belays are a godsend though, I believe.
And I was giving you shit on your double negative in your opening post. That sentence makes absolutely no sense, so I 'grammer trolled' you.
Cheers Bro
DMT
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crimpandgo
Sep 1, 2004, 11:24 PM
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I will show my ignorance. What does a cordelette do for you that webbing does not?
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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 11:29 PM
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In reply to: I will show my ignorance. What does a cordelette do for you that webbing does not?
Gives us something to argue about. I mean, who argues about webbing? Webbing is so... boring.
DMT
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petsfed
Sep 1, 2004, 11:33 PM
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In reply to: What am I missing from my toolbox?
In reply to: 1st of all, don't use the climbing rope in the anchor.
In reply to: And the reason 2 is not exsessive is if you have used one in an anchor and then you have to perform a rescue with the other or build an anchor on the next pitch.
I thought you meant 2 on your person. My partner and I each carry 1 a piece. Rarely is it not the case. However, I learned to build anchors before they had really become widespread. But you suggest that they are the best way to build every anchor, and they aren't. There is no best way to build an anchor.
You argue that it complicates rescues to be without a cordolette, but it doesn't. How do I extricate myself from the belay without a cordolette? Same way I do it with a cordolette: prussic above (or below if I'm belaying a second) my belay device to give me slack to build a munther mule, then slowly load on to the munther mule.
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actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 11:45 PM
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Digus
you were right to harsh my grammer, I think I fixed it. And I never said that cordelettes were necessary. But they can be extemely useful. And for people who don't ever climb with them because they figure they are cumbersome, to try to see and understand the value of having one on you on long routes. And also to learn self rescue techniques and understand that there is no cook book solutions for any of this stuff. I never said that every anchor requires a cordelette. But I do believe that you should never include the climbing rope in the anchor.
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dingus
Sep 1, 2004, 11:47 PM
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In reply to: But I do believe that you should never include the climbing rope in the anchor.
Right on Bro. I'm not convinced its as big a potential problem as you suggest, but I promise to give it some more thought.
Cheers, I'm off for a workout
DMT
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jcr
Sep 2, 2004, 12:09 AM
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In reply to: I'm blown away at the # of people that say they don't climb with at least one.
Are you talking specifically of cordellettes or are you specifiying fo all anchor systems.....
how about a webollette?????
y think webbings and/or other anchor systems are a must when climbing even a single route (sport or trad) could get you out of a real difficult situation not to mention safetywise, redundancy and equalization are a must ( remeber: SRENE ).
JC
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coldclimb
Sep 2, 2004, 12:13 AM
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coldclimb moved this thread from General to Gear Heads.
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modman
Sep 2, 2004, 1:25 AM
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I am still a lttle hazy as to why you need to have a cordelette instead of being able to rely on webbing. I have always had a large peice of webbing with me and have used smaller peices to prussic with.
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slobmonster
Sep 2, 2004, 1:35 AM
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In the hour or two since I left this infernal machine went to the bar, ate a steak, and drank a beer...
we are still only halfway to heck.
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actionfigure
Sep 2, 2004, 1:52 AM
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Not just for anchors. Rescue! Try doing a munter mule with webbing and see how it goes. Let me know how that works for ya.
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yay_chris
Sep 2, 2004, 2:19 AM
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yeah man, cordelettes are rad! :D
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megableem
Sep 2, 2004, 2:21 AM
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jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 4:55 AM
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In reply to: I wanted to start a new thread about the use of cordelettes. I'm blown away at the # of people that say they don't climb with at least one. I always carry two on longer routes. For those of you who don't use them, I hate to sound like a crusty know it all...
Actually you sound like a know-it-all n00b.
-Jay
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jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 4:56 AM
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In reply to: I wanted to start a new thread about the use of cordelettes. I'm blown away at the # of people that say they don't climb with at least one. I always carry two on longer routes. For those of you who don't use them, I hate to sound like a crusty know it all...
Actually you sound like a know-it-all n00b. You might want to do a search for some of the rather in-depth discussions we've had about the pros and cons of cordelettes while you still have a slim chance of saving face.
-Jay
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shorty
Sep 2, 2004, 5:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I hate to sound like a crusty know it all... Actually you sound like a know-it-all n00b. |
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