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Squamish Chief Gondola Proposal
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biff


Aug 24, 2004, 10:01 PM
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Re: Squamish Chief Gondola Proposal [In reply to]
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honestly .. I don't see how this gondola will make money.

The best way to get these people from builging a gondola is to let them know that they won't make any profit.

I'd like to see their business projections, the nubers that tell them that this is going to be a successful venture.


fiend


Aug 25, 2004, 6:43 PM
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Some emails and new info:

In reply to:
This is very serious folks, and if nobody does anything the Chief will be changed forever!

There has been a proposal put forward to the Ministry of Water, Land and Air Protection to construct a gondola up to the second summit of the Chief. This proposal includes 15 tram towers, and the capacity to carry 880 people per hour to the summit. Two acres of usable land at the second summit will be fenced off to accommodate an observation deck and restaurant facilities!

Please take the time to read the attached document and write letters.

Ivan

Below are a couple of sites where you can read more about the proposal, public hearings are due this fall.

http://findwhistler.com/page.cfm/5157

http://www.thetyee.ca/...nt/ChiefGondolas.htm


In reply to:
CLIMBERS' ACCESS SOCIETY OF B.C.
ACCESS ALERT - AUGUST 2004

Greetings! This message is from the Access Society, with current information and updates about climbing access and related issues in B.C. We hope the news is useful, and encourage readers to share, post and forward it. Our apologies if this broadcast is overly lengthy, or unwanted!


The Stawamus Chief, and surrounding cliffs, are an outstanding landmark and natural feature, only 50 km north of Vancouver. They offer world-class rock climbing, some of the most heavily-used trails in B.C., excellent camping, and superb vantage points. There are tens of thousands of annual climber-days at the Chief. It is B.C.'s home crag, and a 2004 estimate is that recreation at the Chief contributes $20 million annually to the area. Many climbers have moved to Squamish because of the Chief, and it has an important role in the culture and economy of the area. The Chief is largely old-growth forest, apart from the highway/powerline swath in front.

A proposal has been made to the B.C. government, to build a gondola to the second summit of the Chief. It would be based at the gravel pit between Stawamus Chief and Shannon Falls provincial parks, and would ascend via numerous towers to the Bulletheads, the top of Tantalus Wall, the upper backside of the first summit, to a terminal on the second summit. About a hectare on the second summit would be enclosed, with an observation deck and various facilities. Gondola capacity would be 880 passengers/hour. The proposal appears well-financed and serious, and is consistent with government plans for economic development and tourism in the area.

The Stawamus Chief became a Class A provincial park in 1995. For the gondola proposal to proceed, the government would have to overrule the 1997 park master plan, which after two years of community consultation affirmed that the Chief is a natural and unique landmark of cultural importance to British Columbians. The master plan prohibited mechanical lift access, but the government made changes to the Park Act in 2003 which allow it to override the plan if it wishes.

Representatives of the Squamish Access Society, an informal, organized group of Squamish climbers affiliated with the Access Society, met with the gondola proponents several months ago, received a great deal of information about the project, discussed it, and then wrote to the government to express concerns. It was then hoped that, having been giving a fair hearing, the proposal would quietly die. However, the eventual reply from the Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection was as follows:

“The management plan for Stawamus Chief Provincial Park was completed in 1997 following extensive public input. Mechanized access to the Chief is not consistent with the plan, and therefore, under the current management plan, a gondola could not be permitted. The ministry has informed the proponents that they may choose to seek community support for an amendment to the management plan. In order to do so, the proponent will be required to consult in an open and transparent manner with the local community, First Nations, interested or affected public agencies, users and stakeholder groups. The proponent has indicated that they are interested in pursuing this option. It is expected that public consultations may occur in the fall of this year, in which case I encourage you to participate in the process to ensure your perspectives are brought forward. Should those consultations demonstrate broad community support for a continuation of the park's management plan to restrict mechanized access on the Chief, then we would reflect those wishes.”

The nature of the consultative process is not yet known, and the Access Society believes that the government should manage the process and ensure it is impartial. The gondola proposal is being given serious consideration, and community opinion will be an important factor in the government decision. The Access Society will work, particularly with the Squamish Access Society and the Friends of the Chief (friendsofthechief@yahoo.ca), to ensure climbers’ interests and views are represented. We will also publicize developments through our website, broadcast e-mails, and the autumn edition of Access News. It seems likely that information about the proposal will be published, and there will be public meetings, but more is not yet known.

The proposal was discussed on CBC Radio's Early Edition in mid-August, and Megan Olesky, of Friends of the Chief, will be interviewed on AM600 Radio's Rafe Mair show about it at 9:15 AM on Monday August 23rd. 600 kHz in Vancouver, rebroadcast on other stations around B.C., or www.600am.com. Listeners can call (604) 280-0600 and comment.

For now, you can write, phone or e-mail and express your views on the project. The concerned officials:

Bill Barisoff, Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection
P.O. Box 9047, St'n. Prov. Gov't.
Victoria, B.C.
Canada V8W 9E2
(250) 387-1187, or WLAP.Minister@gems9.gov.bc.ca

Gordon Campbell, Premier
P.O. Box 9041, St'n. Prov. Gov't.
Victoria, B.C.
Canada V8W 9E1
Phone (250) 387-1715, or premier@gov.bc.ca

Ian Sutherland, Mayor
District of Squamish
P.O. Box 310
Squamish, B.C.
Canada V0N 3G0
Phone 1-877-892-5217, or isutherland@squamish.ca

Please write or call! A written letter counts for significantly more than an e-mail, and an e-mail for significantly more than a phone call - very simply, the more effort you put into whatever you send/say, the more impact it has. Please:

a) cc the Access Society (see 'contact us' on the website) with anything you send;
b) be polite, and brief;
c) identify who you are, where you live, who you represent (if anyone besides yourself), your interest in the area and issue, your views on the gondola proposal, and the reasons for them;
d) be as reasonable and constructive as you can - there are many aspects to this issue; and
e) be clear about what you support, or oppose.

The Access Society particularly encourages climbers, and climbers' organizations, from outside B.C. to write and express their concerns.

There are also petitions in Squamish-area climbing stores, and petitions may appear elsewhere. Other actions - website information, meetings, broadcast e-mails, attending public meetings - will occur as the occasion demands.

The Access Society's position with respect to the Stawamus Chief gondola proposal is that a gondola of this kind would be appropriate somewhere in the Squamish area, if well planned and designed, and if supported by First Peoples, governments, affected interest groups, and the public. A gondola within Stawamus Chief provincial park is not appropriate. It would:

a) be contrary to the master plan,
b) significantly conflict with existing low-impact users (climbers, hikers, campers, viewers),
c) mar a geological, visual and cultural landmark, and
d) negatively affect the Chief's standing as a national and international landmark and recreational resource.

The proposal also seems likely to generate substantial public comment, and may affect the peregrine falcons which nest on the Chief. There are alternative sites in the Squamish area that would not conflict with existing uses, or have such high environmental, community and visual impacts.


Thank you!
Anders Ourom (president)

PDF Downloads:
Friends of the Chief letter with proposal info and addresses to write. Sized to print and post .
http://www.halcyonclimbing.com/...riendsoftheChief.pdf

Squamish Access Society letter to the Minister of Land, Air and Water.
http://www.halcyonclimbing.com/...tertotheminister.pdf

Sierra Club information on how to write a good letter to the Government.
http://www.halcyonclimbing.com/...tterwritingguide.pdf


fiend


Aug 25, 2004, 7:23 PM
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Re: Squamish Chief Gondola Proposal [In reply to]
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In reply to:
According to the article, the top station would be on the South Summit, which would be the first summit.

Just to clarify, as stated in Megan's letter, it would be to the second summit.

In reply to:
The new casino in town proves that Squamish really does want to be the Outdoor Recreation Capital.

Squamish Casino? I can only assume that you're thinking of the Wild Cherry set they had up last summer for the filming of The Rock's new movie "Walking Tall". Is there a real casino that those of us living here in town don't know about?

In reply to:
My point here is that squamish although a great climbing destination is hardly pristine.

I see your point in some ways, but think of it like this. Stand on highway 99 and look north. Turning to your left you see the garbage that you described but as it stands you can turn right and see something a little more wild and beautiful like the Chief. Adding a gondola means that you're seeing crap whichever way you look.


One of the problems we're facing is that the gondola would make money, for one person at least. Tourists on their way to Whistler would stop and ride the damn thing. Working at Valhalla Pure, the subject comes up quite frequently and there's a large percentage of people out there who are generally opposed to the idea but wouldn't mind so much if it went through and would probably ride it anyways.

The arguments remain that it would look ugly sitting on top of the Chief, it would only marginally increase the number of tourists who actually stop in the town of Squamish on their way to Whistler, and not everything that takes more than 20 minutes to hike up needs a lift to the top. Whistler and the Grouse Grind are two other gondola options already in place and are less than an hour's drive in either direction.


peas


Aug 25, 2004, 7:38 PM
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Re: Squamish Chief Gondola Proposal [In reply to]
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The Vancouver Sun carried an article on the gondola proposal today. Interesting tidbits from the developers and a first nations representative. Not many clips given from the con side however.

http://www.canada.com/...25-b06d-e833ff3a0067


kman


Aug 25, 2004, 9:11 PM
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Here is a link to the Rafe Mair radio broadcast. Click on the Monday archive It starts talking about the Chief at 01:05:00 http://www.600am.com/pages/Rafe_archives.html


flying_dutchman


Aug 30, 2004, 4:44 PM
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I wish they would scrap the chief gondola idea cause it will only piss off a lotta people and think about the other proposal to put a gondola accross the squamish river up into the mountains on the other side of the valley. That would potentially open up more areas for hiking and climbing.


glowering


Aug 30, 2004, 5:54 PM
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In reply to:
It has been suggested that the tram will open up the summit of the Chief to those who are unable to climb it unaided. True as far as it goes; but is anyone suggesting that the real reason for the gondola is concern for disabled people? Of course not.

Unable to climb it unaided?? Nonsense.
A Quadriplegic climbed it!!!! With no friggin gondola.

http://www.verticalchallenge.org/index.html (notice he's against the gondola too).

Here is a guy who designed a rig that uses upper arm power to ascend this rock. But we should put a gondola in another placefor the lazy losers who won't hike.


virtual


Aug 30, 2004, 7:24 PM
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In reply to:
Unable to climb it unaided?? Nonsense.
A Quadriplegic climbed it!!!! With no friggin gondola.

http://www.verticalchallenge.org/index.html (notice he's against the gondola too).

IIRC Brad didn't make it. He had to turn back because of the heat. But a guy with that much spirit WILL make it eventually.

In reply to:
But we should put a gondola in another place

I agree completely. I have heard Mount Habrich and Echo Lake mentioned as possible destinations.


fiend


Aug 31, 2004, 4:56 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
But we should put a gondola in another place

I agree completely.

Me too. How about Whistler?


squish


Aug 31, 2004, 5:37 PM
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In reply to:
But we should put a gondola in another placefor the lazy losers who won't hike.

Last I heard, they were feeling the heat from their original proposal, and were also considering to run the towers in a more easterly direction from the base; over Olesen Creek and up onto the crag between Shannon Falls and the Chief.

That might just be a rumour; I can't remember where I heard that. Personally, I can't imagine that someone with that much balls to propose it in the first place would back down so easily. Does anyone know if this is true? Is the space between Shannon and Stawamus listed as Park or Crown land?

I'm strongly against the idea, but if a gondola must be built, it should be better-planned as a means to open access to a larger area, not just some dead-end summit that concentrates hordes of tourons into one small space. That is purely profit-driven and does no service to the outdoor recreation community, the landscape, or anyone's appreciation of this beautiful landmark.

Those who bring up Europe as a benchmark for gondola building should consider that not all gondolas are equal--and while Europe has a few that run to the airy summit of some major feature--most were not built to cater to camera-toting tourons exclusively. A gondola should be able to shuttle tourists to an upper base where their adventures would begin; not end.

A smarter location wouldn't exclude use by the camera-toting tourons, but it would also provide a much wider service. This is just one more reason why Grouse and Whistler are acceptable, but the Stawamus Chief plan isn't.


kman


Sep 2, 2004, 2:40 AM
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In reply to:
I have heard Mount Habrich and Echo Lake mentioned as possible destinations

NOOOOOOOO not Habrich :roll: Aww F!_!ck man. Look at Habrich http://rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=9670


scottcody


Sep 2, 2004, 2:49 AM
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From the orginal link posted
In reply to:
The legislation enables the Minister to allow private interests to pursue recreational and tourism developments in parks if, in his opinion, development is “consistent with or complementary to” recreational values.”
Here in lies your problems... looks like the pigs are in the farm house.

But hey look on the bright side, you have socialized medicine.


veilneb


Sep 2, 2004, 3:15 AM
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I don't really see anything wrong with the proposal. In fact, I think the gondola should stretch from Squamish to El Cap and across the valley up Half Dome. Imagine the international venture! It would be great. I will be the first to propose that the gondola cars be designed by Hummer.

We really should do more to reward sloth and gluttony, after all, obesity is only costing the US healthcare system 112 billion dollars a year.

v


cacti-tro
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Sep 5, 2004, 6:47 AM
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Re: Squamish Chief Gondola Proposal [In reply to]
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first of all, i went to squamish for the first time in Aug. that being said, i honestly believe that it is one of the most beautiful places in the world. the reason it is so beautiful is because it is NOT what i like to say, "AMERICANIZED".

there is not a single place in U.S. like it. there are places as beautiful origanally, but we have destroyed them all with national parks, state parks, tourists who give less than a sh!t, fences, gondolas, park fees, climbing restrictions for tourists' sake, and worst of alll, we promote fat americans to get off there a$$es and come see the wonderous outdoors from a chair! we promise them they wont have to "exercise" at all. stay fat and enjoy everything you dont deserve because you are only motivated when you hear "Mickey D's", or "Fried". it's the outdoors people, we need to face the fact that pretty nails, fasionable shoes and expensive suits just dont work together, and we shouldn't be trying to make it.

I believe the only reason i so enjoyed my stay at Squamish was because it is seemingly untouched. there is a nice small town, some of the most enjoyable company of locals and respective passers by like me. if tourist really want to see the excellent view, make them climb like everyone else has already done.

i've been climbing for almost 2 years now, and although i've only climbed V8, i feel like the hike up the Chief was an accomplishment, and it made the view way better than it could ever have been after a five minute ride in a chiar, eating some mini doughnuts.

If you are not willing to break a sweat to get to the top, THEN TOUGH LUCK!!!!!! i'll show you my pictures when i get back down.

Squamish is a worldly gem and i dont think they should change a thing. if i could, i'd change the 2010 olimpics to some other place also. thats going to have an impact. :(


floater


Sep 5, 2004, 3:56 PM
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A crime, a crime, a crime it would be. But not a surprise. There's not much that stands in the way of developers these days it seems. We had a similar proposal long ago in Newfoundland where they wanted to put a gondola to the top of Gros Morne. It is a super long hike in but to hell with it. If you can't do it... you can't do it. Anyway, luckily the wind and weather conditions were too unpredictable to warrent the build and instead the money went to a huge interpretation centre.


bandycoot


Sep 6, 2004, 6:08 AM
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Fuck civilized society and its "dumbing down" or "least common denominator" drift. That makes me want to vomit. What's next, an elevator up El Capitan? One of those moving walkways on Everest? People suck!


lightandfast


Sep 6, 2004, 8:14 AM
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EVERYONE GET INVOLVED, E-MAIL THE POWERS THAT BE, TOGETHER WE CAN STOP THIS!!!!!!!!!!


vanclimber


Sep 6, 2004, 8:18 AM
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Here is the letter I wrote:


Honorable Gordon Campbell, Premier of British Columbia

Honorable Premier,

I am writing to express my opposition to the gondola project being considered for the Stawamus Chief. As a Vancouver resident and soon to be property owner, I consider Squamish to be the best place in my world to relax and get away from the city and it's unending streams of people. As a climber who travels several times a week to Squamish for bouldering and rope climbing, I find the idea of a private gondola on a public park, especially one so steeped in history and local culture as the Chief, to be distasteful at the very least and environmentally irresponsible in general. Squamish has earned it's title as "Outdoor Recreation Capital of Canada" by offering some of the most spectacular and adventurous activities around while retaining a pioneering spirit. This reputation has great meaning when you consider the number of beautiful and exciting places you can travel to in our country.

I have ascended the Chief several times via the backside trail, and it has always been a hike that has given me a sense of accomplishment. When you sit at the South Peak and look down onto Howe Sound, you can really feel a connection with the generations of people who have the same climb. At the same time, this level of hiking is accessable to a wide cross section of the population, and I have seen both young and old enjoying this unique and rewarding hike.

By adding a gondola, we would be taking away something that is integral to the close sense of community that is present in Squamish. I cannot recall a place that I have travelled to where the people were more generous or more friendly than those of Squamish. Taking advantage of this characteristic would be deeply regretable in the future.

Please reconsider before supporting this proposal.

Respectfully,

Donald Springford

Here is the response I got:

Thank you for your email regarding a proposal for a gondola within Stawamus
Chief Provincal Park.

I appreciate your sharing your views with me and have forwarded a copy of
your email to my colleague, the Honourable Bill Barisoff, Minister of Water,
Land and Air Protection, for his review and attention. I assure you that
Minister Barisoff will give your input every consideration.

Thank you for taking the time to inform me of your views on this matter.

Sincerely,

Gordon Campbell
Premier

pc: Honourable Bill Barisoff


mkjwngoat


Sep 6, 2004, 1:11 PM
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It seems to me that If you build the gondola, then in ten years you'll have this massive thing up the side of the mountain that nobodys uses because the thrill has worn off. Then the comanies involved will get out because it costs more to maintain the thing and pay workers than they make off of it. To keep it from becoming an eyesore, the local government will have to take over financing. Eventually, it'll just be a target for punk kids to mess with. a nasty thing like that will have a predictable effect on tourism. It's happened before.

Alternative: kick the proposers in the nuts. It won't accomplish much, but I'd kinda like to see it.


fiend


Sep 7, 2004, 4:46 PM
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If anyone is feeling up to writing letters I was recently told that the best thing you can do is send in hardcopy... you know.. with stamps and all.

A poli-sci major might be able to correct this info but I was told that certain forms of formal protest recieve modifiers when submitted.

ie:
A signature on a petition represents one person's opinion.
An email represents the opinions of 10 people.
A printed snail mail represents the opinions of 100 people.

Therefor, 10 written letters equal 1,000 signatures on a petition.


We probably have about 1,000 signatures on the petition aimed at the district of Squamish as of now and more people are signing every day. Whatever the actual modifier is, imagine if all of those people decided to write a letter as well.


overlord


Sep 8, 2004, 4:13 PM
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man, i hope they wont build it.

if youre too lazy to walk (and then descend) then dont go. its your problem.


fiend


Sep 9, 2004, 4:09 PM
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Mailed my two letters (to Gordon Campbell and Bill Barisoff) today.


brokentaylor


Sep 22, 2004, 11:30 PM
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Like any other summit, If you can not reach the top by climbing or hiking, TOO BAD!


squish


Sep 23, 2004, 7:37 AM
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There will be a council meeting on September 28th at 7:00pm, where the developer will make their presentation. I'm taking the night off work to be there, and I'm hoping there will be a tough crowd to send these clowns back to Whistler with their tails between their legs.

I called the district office, and they confirmed that it will be held at Brennan Park Leisure Centre rather than council chambers, I guess due to heavy interest in this issue. Please show up too, if you care about the Chief.


sileebailey


Sep 27, 2004, 6:04 PM
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I am an avid hiker and just getting into outdoor climbing. The Chief has been a favorite destination for years.
I have been reading the comments in this forum for and against the gondola.
Perhaps the only argument that could have held any validity for me is the potential of increasing business for Squamish. The argument I believe is that a gondola would make people stay longer and spend more money in Squamish.
Unfortunately, I feel this is not likely.
Already there are reams of tour buses stopping at the Chief. No gondola isn't discouraging them. Most of these tourist will not hike the Chief, but do the short walk to see Shannon Falls. They then get back in the bus and continue onto Whistler, they are not stopping in Squamish town itself. Adding a gondola is not going to make people stop in the town and spend money. The money from this venture is going to go into the pockets of the gondola owners not to the locals. And who will pay the price? Climbers, hikers, etc. Will the trail suddenly be gated and given open/close times like Grouse in order to avoid lawsuits?
The arguement that the gondola will allow more people to appreciate nature is also ridiculous. People are already enjoying nature just by driving up the Sea to Sky, looking at Shannon falls...and hey those tourists will be taking the gondola up at Whistler where the views are better anyways.
For those who are arguing for the gondola, please do not be naive in thinking this is at all going to be helping the local businesses in Squamish. The money will be going elsewhere. It they want more people to stop in town, they should build something in town to attract people there.
The locals will be much more aided by the continued marketing of Squamish as a ecotourist mecca. This is where the goverment should be placing their attention!

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Forums : Climbing Information : Access Issues & Closures

 


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