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iridesantacruz
Aug 25, 2004, 3:26 AM
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anyone use the Trango Cinch.... have any input on it?
-chris
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climb_plastic
Aug 25, 2004, 4:54 AM
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you don't need a safety backup...I'd prefer a competent belayer with an atc than a beginner with a cinch...
It teaches you bad belay technique.....
It makes me lazy....
If you pull on the black lever the cam releases and the climber falls....
It might not lock on a fall if you pull on the climber side of the rope and you scratch your balls with the brake hand while standing on your head....
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therealbovine
Aug 26, 2004, 6:03 PM
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Yep, Used it.
Simular to the gri gri but not as pretty. A little harder to lower with, as the handle is small. Locks off fine and with a little practice feeds out slack well. Seemed to stop falls without a problem. Lighter than the gri gri, but not that much lighter.
My only beef with the Cinch is a rolled metal pin that the rope runs over. It seems that this is a bad design as this rolled material will wear through in time, and leave a sharp edge. It seems as though the design of this "pin" could have been better, and the solid metal surface on which the rope mostly runs over should have been covered the exposed section of rolled pin. This is probably confusing unless you have a Cinch in your hand to see what I mean.
Beast of luck!
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csoles
Aug 26, 2004, 6:19 PM
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Actually it's confusing when you do have a Cinch in your hand. That is a stainless steel pin and so is the part you lay the rope into. I suspect you'll wear out a thousand ropes before it shows any sign of wear.
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noshoesnoshirt
Aug 26, 2004, 6:21 PM
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the handle is underengineered. too small, hard to pull it back on rapel. if the handle breaks (which doesn't seem too unlikely) you're gonna be hosed; it would be very hard to release the cam without the handle. all in all i'd stick with the grigri. if you're that concerned about size and weight use an ATC-style device.
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stickels
Aug 26, 2004, 9:16 PM
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yep, own it, love it........no more grigri for me. I used it last weekend for aid soloing and popped a piece and couldn't be happier with it's performance. One thing I REALLY like about it is the "angle" that the rope goes in and exits the device is very shallow, i guess thats the best way to describe it. It takes almost no effort to pull slack through, great for aid and throwing slack on a sport climb. Csoles is right, you are not going to wear it out, and as far as the handle being "underengineered", I think it is great. Low profile stays outa' the way, etc. And as far a rapping goes, well funny you should mention that.
The grigri is CE rated, like the cinch. However, it is CE rated for rapping/lowering, it was not actually CE rated as a belay devise, thus I would imagine that it does rap better than the cinch. However buying a belay device for how well it descends is like buying a car based on how well it drives in reverse. The Cinch is CE rated as a belay device :D .
IMHO the Cinch is great and every one should buy one 8^)
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tyify
Aug 26, 2004, 9:25 PM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/gear/product.php?p=1593&list=1
Put these opinions in there! Rate the product make the database more useful to everyone! :)
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killclimbz
Aug 26, 2004, 9:35 PM
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In reply to: you don't need a safety backup...I'd prefer a competent belayer with an atc than a beginner with a cinch...
True and that is your preference. I think the initiator was asking for opinions on how it peformed.
In reply to: It teaches you bad belay technique.....
In reply to: It makes me lazy....
In reply to: If you pull on the black lever the cam releases and the climber falls....
In reply to: It might not lock on a fall if you pull on the climber side of the rope and you scratch your balls with the brake hand while standing on your head....
True dat, then again you would have the same problem with a regular belay device to. I think the name "climb_plastic" says it all. Stick to the indoors, you are definitely much safer there.
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abouttopeel
Aug 26, 2004, 9:50 PM
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Can you use the Cinch lefty or is it set up for righties only?
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jer
Sep 3, 2004, 3:23 AM
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I tried to drop this in the gear review section, but it never worked, so here it is:
So...some thoughts on the Cinch...As far as "why isn't it out yet?", I dunno. Be patient...continue with your trusty hip belay, and the little chunk of heaven will be in your hands before you know it.
I got ahold of one quite early as I have been developing the instructional booklet that comes in the packaging. Thus said, I have become quite intimate with the little fella. First off...yes, it is different than any belay device you've used. Whereas it reflects many similar benefits of a gri-gri, I haven't used my gri-gri since getting my hands on one of these, and I am STAUNCH advocate for self locking belay devices. The device IS lighter than a gri gri, but I see that as a side point. It's reduction of bulkiness is what makes it attractive to me, with the ability to keep it on my belay loop and continue climbing(try doing that with a gri gri).
Other benefits are the smooth as silk feed to a leader, and the total inability to release rope once it is weighted UNLESS you use the lever. It is IMPOSSIBLE to engage the cam once weighted without releasing the lever. This lever is not my favorite for single rope rappelling, but I am adapting to it in favor of all the other upsides.
One final thought, and this is not promoted, encouraged or approved by Trango; but here goes- The Trango Cinch is BY FAR the finest multi use device I have ever used- As a re-belay for simul-climbing, it does things that a Tibloc or Ropeman can never do- ACTUALLY BELAY the second!! During practice runs, my partner and I took dynamic falls as a follower, and the leader never felt even a tug.
As a toprope self belay, it is unmatched. Once comfortable with the setup, one never even needs to touch it until reaching the anchor; then simply lean back and rappel to earth for another lap.
Aid Solo is obviously a "cinch" as well. A lightweight alternative to others on the market.
Every where I have been with my new toy the last few months; heads have turned. On their first attempt at using the little devil, they usually turn their noses up..."too different" or "too complicated" is usually the scorn. However, my more consistent partners have taken the time to get comfortable with it, and are ALL salivating to get their hands on one. Funny, it keeps dissapearing from my rack on long alpine routes in the park this summer. I arrive at the anchor and guess what I am being belayed up with?
Trango didn't put me up to this review, and even before it came out, I preached the gospel of self locking belay devices to all in earshot. Being a veteran of loose rock encounters with numerous scars, stitches and stained pant legs to prove it, in my opinion, using a self locking device is a no brainer. Buy a Cinch, and make your momma happy.
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reno
Sep 3, 2004, 3:41 AM
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In reply to: the handle is underengineered. too small, hard to pull it back on rapel. if the handle breaks (which doesn't seem too unlikely) you're gonna be hosed; it would be very hard to release the cam without the handle.
As I understand it from what I've read (have not yet bought one... money issue,) that's the point.
My beef with the Gri-Gri is that it is too easy to bump/nudge the release bar, causing lowering when you don't want to. The smaller handle on the Cinch would seem to eliminate that.
But again, this is only from reading and handling one at the gear shop, not from actually using it, so I might change my tune.
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noshoesnoshirt
Sep 3, 2004, 4:57 AM
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you gotta point there reno. i guess it's like comparing apples and oranges. the grigri definitely is smoother for lowering and rapelling. the cinch sure feels less likely to succumb to accidental release; i could see it being better as a self-bely device.
my point was that the grigri is easier to manipulate for standard single pitch (especially sport) routes.
they each have their own merits; i'm not dissing the cinch, but it seems to be engineered for a bit more of a specialty-type crowd (and i have to admit it's an elegant design, very aesthetically pleasing).
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johnhenry
Sep 7, 2004, 1:21 AM
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Thanks for the imput...
Just one question,
When I aid-solo with my grigri and 10.5 Stratros rope, I am constantly squeezing the grigri to allow rope to pass through. With the Cinch, does the rope run that much more smoothly? Otherwise, are you constantly yarding on the release arm for slack?
right on,
john
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stickels
Sep 7, 2004, 1:50 AM
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[quote="johnhenry"]Thanks for the imput...
When I aid-solo with my grigri and 10.5 Stratros rope, I am constantly squeezing the grigri to allow rope to pass through. With the Cinch, does the rope run that much more smoothly? Otherwise, are you constantly yarding on the release arm for slack?
Rope goes through the cinch easier. The angle the rope enters and leaves the device is "Less steep" or "less extreme" than a Grigri
If some one can tell me how to post a pic in the forums I'll post a pic of mine with a rope in it so you can see it.
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feanor007
Sep 13, 2004, 8:20 PM
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eventually i will probaly invest in a gri-gri or cinch even though i prefer the ATC. what are the differances and is either one safer or more user friendly
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therealbovine
Sep 15, 2004, 5:34 PM
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In reply to: Actually it's confusing when you do have a Cinch in your hand. That is a stainless steel pin and so is the part you lay the rope into. I suspect you'll wear out a thousand ropes before it shows any sign of wear.
(Cinch) If you use a 9-11 ml rope, and if your rope is ever dirty (but how could that be....) then the pin shows signs of wear after only a few weeks in the field. The pin is rolled, which means that it is not a solid layer of metal, but multiple layers. As the first layer wears through, it is possible to have a sharp edge etc... The pin is only partially exposed, which could also allow the materials surrounding the pin to wear at a different rate. This too could allow for an inconsistance surface for the rope to run over, thus causing premature wear on your rope. Though I've owned a Gri Gri for years, it too shows signs of wear on the aluminum rail over which your rope runs as you brake and/or lower. Mine is almost completly worn through at that area. My opinion is that the pin on the Cinch should have been designed better, with this in mind. Who knows, maybe companies realize the fact that if a product would last forever, they would'nt be able to sell the same guy the same product over and over again. Job security?
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reno
Sep 15, 2004, 5:42 PM
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In reply to: Who knows, maybe companies realize the fact that if a product would last forever, they would'nt be able to sell the same guy the same product over and over again. Job security?
I doubt it.
Far different aspect, but Snap-On Tools are well known for lasting "forever." That hasn't stopped them from selling lots of tools, having solid growth, etc.
Sure, companies want to sell their products, but I wouldn't think they'd intentionally make things that will wear down quickly. The word would get around that "XYZ's Widgets wear out too fast, so don't waste your money."
Also, having met Malcom Daly (a very nice fellow,) I can't see him supporting his company making any gear that isn't designed for lots of use. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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killclimbz
Sep 15, 2004, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Actually it's confusing when you do have a Cinch in your hand. That is a stainless steel pin and so is the part you lay the rope into. I suspect you'll wear out a thousand ropes before it shows any sign of wear. (Cinch) If you use a 9-11 ml rope, and if your rope is ever dirty (but how could that be....) then the pin shows signs of wear after only a few weeks in the field. The pin is rolled, which means that it is not a solid layer of metal, but multiple layers. As the first layer wears through, it is possible to have a sharp edge etc... The pin is only partially exposed, which could also allow the materials surrounding the pin to wear at a different rate. This too could allow for an inconsistance surface for the rope to run over, thus causing premature wear on your rope. Though I've owned a Gri Gri for years, it too shows signs of wear on the aluminum rail over which your rope runs as you brake and/or lower. Mine is almost completly worn through at that area. My opinion is that the pin on the Cinch should have been designed better, with this in mind. Who knows, maybe companies realize the fact that if a product would last forever, they would'nt be able to sell the same guy the same product over and over again. Job security?
I seriously doubt that Trango manufactures anything with such short life in mind. Have you contacted them about this? I have not heard of such issues, but I would be worried if it really wears that fast. Please notify them and let us know what their response is.
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alpiner
Sep 15, 2004, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: If you use a 9-11 ml rope, and if your rope is ever dirty (but how could that be....) then the pin shows signs of wear after only a few weeks in the field. The pin is rolled, which means that it is not a solid layer of metal, but multiple layers. As the first layer wears through, it is possible to have a sharp edge etc.
Absolute bullshyt.
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lebeau
Sep 16, 2004, 1:29 AM
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The roll pin on the Cinch was switched to a solid pin.
Cinches should be shipping this week!
It's lighter, it feeds smoother, and it's less expensive.
Inventor and designer,
Mark
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reno
Sep 16, 2004, 1:36 AM
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In reply to: Cinches should be shipping this week!
Great... And here I was telling myself "Reno, you're not going to spend any money this payday on gear."
Gee, thanks, Mark.
Sheesh.
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lebeau
Sep 16, 2004, 2:48 AM
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http://lebeaudesign.com/CINCH.gif
I hope this explains a little bit about the straight rope path. Also you can hold the lever down and hold the rope in your brake hand.
If there are any questions about it you can pm and ask me.
Mark
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therealbovine
Sep 17, 2004, 4:24 PM
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Good to hear that they are going to a solid pin. Makes sense to me, as the Cinch I had been using was a prototype model. Sorry to bust your balls, but gee, there must have been a reason for the design change, so I guess my personnal factual experience with a product must not have been absolute b.s. (alpiner). Besides, I was not trying to shoot down Trango by any means, its nice to have a company like trango pushing the envelope on design and innovation (you too lebeau). Sorry if you other folk can't accept an unbiased answer to the question posed in this forum. If it was all glamour and lies, we'd be talking polotics, not climbing...
Best of luck!
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alpiner
Sep 17, 2004, 4:41 PM
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In reply to: so I guess my personnal factual experience with a product must not have been absolute b.s. (alpiner).
You posted crapola since you in fact had zero experience with a production model. Reviewing a proto without disclosing this important detail or bothering to check what changes were made is idiotic. When you lay cowpies, don't be suprised when they're tossed back at you.
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iridesantacruz
Sep 17, 2004, 10:55 PM
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as i understand the cinch isnt out on the market yet.... but if thats so how do some websites have it?
-chris
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