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skateman
Sep 7, 2004, 6:06 PM
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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Hi All,
My second was unable to retrieve two #2 robot cams in the last two weeks. I had to be lowered from the top of a climb to retrieve a #3 robot as well. The placement of the #3
appeared to be perfect. However, the #3 was in a good inch from where I placed it initially.
I haven't had any problems with my Metolius and BD cams. I'm wondering if anyone else is having problems with Rock Empire Robots walking-running? May be time to pass the remaining robots off to someone less fortunate than me!
Dan
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jumpingrock
Sep 7, 2004, 6:12 PM
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In my fairly limited experiance, it seems to me that cams walk/run more or less depending on several factors. a) how rigid the stem is. b) how much rope drag there is. c) whether you clipped directly into the cam's sling or you use a quick draw/sling.
That said, I find that it takes me just as long to place a cam as I take to place a passive piece simply because I usually wiggle it back and forth a bit to see what would happen if it walked. Occasionally I have discovered that I had a poor placement that would have walked right out and no longer been safe. On other occasions I have discovered that the piece walks into a very unfavorable position for retreval.
but I am not a very experianced leader so take everything I said with a grain or 10 of salt.
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barc
Sep 7, 2004, 6:17 PM
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Registered: Apr 19, 2002
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The u-stem walk quite a bit more than the single stem designs. I don't think that robots would walk any more than metolious of the same sizes. Are you talking about large robots? Because the large sizes walk quite a bit more. Don't forget, though, all cams walk.
Elliott
P.S. I like rock empire cams.
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maculated
Sep 7, 2004, 6:18 PM
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Registered: Dec 23, 2001
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I have NO experience with robot cams (don't even know who makes them), but I do know that I find a lot of fixed/walked cams of various types (specifically tech friends) that, upon siting, I usually call as say, Wild Country, because of the frequency of finding them in fixed positions. This could also be because people don't work as hard at cleaning them as the BDs and T/FCUs, since these are genuine excitement-inducing booty.
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skateman
Sep 7, 2004, 6:21 PM
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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Hey Jumping,
I usually give the cam a little wiggle as well and I always extend nuts and almost always
extend cams. The rock Empire cams have extendable sling which sometimes eliminate
the need for extension (in theory anyway). The route I was on was Jackie in the Gunks.
If I remember correctly there was very little rope drag. The #3 that got stuck was the last
piece of pro that was placed. Thanks for the input though!
S
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crimpandgo
Sep 7, 2004, 7:08 PM
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Registered: Apr 15, 2004
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skateman, have you tried a search on this site? I remember a few posts about the Empire cams and how prone they are to walking.
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skateman
Sep 7, 2004, 8:14 PM
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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Crimp,
I checked some of the post and gear reviews on the RE cams. The reviews were favorable on the smaller RE's (eg. #2 & #3). Perhaps I may have overcammed the cams to begin with. Also I have been climbing with relatively inexperienced seconds. (I was able to
retrieve a cam that my second could not)
I'm going to re-evaluate my cam collection (BD, RE, Metolius) and make a determination which mfg I wish to go with.
Thanks all!
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jimfix
Sep 7, 2004, 8:44 PM
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Registered: Aug 18, 2004
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A good idea for cam retrieval is to carry a nut tool with double hooks on the end. These are a little bit heavier/bulky, but will save you losing a cam or your knuckles trying to get one back.
U-stem cams are easier to retrieve with one of these tools, as the bar is easier to grab. On single stem models you have to get the hook over the stem so the tool can pull both sides of the trigger bar.
Stick with robots, their not bad cams and who can complain with the price.
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rcaret
Sep 7, 2004, 8:57 PM
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Registered: Jul 30, 2002
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Robot cams do walk ( Rock Empire makes them ) I have two sets and use them quite often in shallow cracks because of this problem , The two largest of the set walk the most and longer runners do help , The smalest cams walk the least.
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karlbaba
Sep 9, 2004, 11:59 PM
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Registered: Jul 10, 2002
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Longer runners help. Also, it helps if you place your cam below or outside a bump or constriction that will resist the cam's tendency to walk. You'd be surprised how little nuances in the stone can help cams from getting out of control
Peace
Karl
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iclimblilrocks
Sep 10, 2004, 1:04 AM
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Registered: May 6, 2004
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just give them to me... might have been caused by rope drag pushing it farther into the crack but im not sure
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