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chucky
Sep 15, 2004, 6:28 PM
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When setting up a multi pitch anchor either using a web-o-lette or cordalette, is it prefered to use a locker or wiregate at the point attaching the pro to the web-o-lette/coradalette?
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reno
Sep 15, 2004, 6:31 PM
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Locker is ideal. That being said, sometimes you have to do things that are less than ideal... it's part of the game. I've made anchors without lockers before, and I'll probably do it again some day.
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slobmonster
Sep 15, 2004, 6:37 PM
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I don't think you read his (horrendously worded) question correctly... He was asking how one would attach each individual piece of pro to each arm of a cordelette. IF you are using an anchor and all cordelette arms are under some tension (which would keep the 'biners from flopping into a cross-loading configuration), and the 'biner gates aren't opening on some feature of rock, it is by all means FINE and DANDY to use non-locking carabiners. [Do you see people climbing with a rack of eight to ten lockers?] For attaching you to the master point of the anchor, use a locker or two reversed-and-opposed plain-jane 'biners.
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reno
Sep 15, 2004, 6:42 PM
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In reply to: I don't think you read his (horrendously worded) question correctly... He was asking how one would attach each individual piece of pro to each arm of a cordelette. :oops: You're right... I misread the post. I apologize. For clipping the cordlette to each piece of pro in a 3 point gear anchor, a non-locker is fine. A locker should be used at the powerpoint, under ideal situations. Sorry for the confusion. My mistake for reading it wrong.
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petsfed
Sep 15, 2004, 7:02 PM
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Aside from my belay biner, I only care 2 lockers. One to connect me to the anchor, one to connect the reverso to the anchor. Whatever's handy to connect the pieces to the cordolette (where applicable). God I love simplicity.
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dirtineye
Sep 15, 2004, 10:08 PM
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I like lugging my lockers around. I like then because they are safer, I like them because in a complicated belay I know what should not be unclipped at a glance. I'd go for doubled and opposed as well, if I didn't have the lockers. Tthat's probably better than a locker. I have yet to see any accident report that says, " Mr Doe & party died because they were carrying too many locking biners!" But it COULD happen.
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tgreene
Sep 15, 2004, 10:22 PM
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I carry std 6 lockers for building anchors as well as additional tie in points for packs/racks/etc, in addition to the oversized pears which I use specifically for belaying and rappelling. Rather than lockers themselves, I use a pair of of opposed Metolius Super Ovals to secure the rope to the power point. Because these biners have a huge surface area, they allow the rope to feed much smoother.
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gds
Sep 15, 2004, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: I like lugging my lockers around. I like then because they are safer, I like them because in a complicated belay I know what should not be unclipped at a glance. I'd go for doubled and opposed as well, if I didn't have the lockers. Tthat's probably better than a locker. I have yet to see any accident report that says, " Mr Doe & party died because they were carrying too many locking biners!" But it COULD happen. But by this logic you would reccommend using only lockers in every situation. Actually I don't think lockers are necessarily safer for the purpose proposed in the original post non lockers are just as safe. I have never heard of a loaded biner connecting a piece to a cordellete or web o lette accidently opening. Perhaps it has happened but I've never heard of it. I know of no text book or major teaching organization that suggests using lockers for the purpose of the original question. And lockers are heavier and more cumbersome to open/close thus increasing time. There are cases where speed is a crucial part of safety.
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tgreene
Sep 15, 2004, 11:00 PM
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I specifically use them, so at an instance, I know which pieces are the critical gear, so as to not accidently unclip the wrong piece, and it certainly does happen. Also, they are not necessarily any heavier than regular biners. I use the Trango Classic Lockers, and the only difference between those and the Classic Wiregates that I use for standard biners, is the gate itself.
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gds
Sep 15, 2004, 11:56 PM
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In reply to: I specifically use them, so at an instance, I know which pieces are the critical gear, so as to not accidently unclip the wrong piece, and it certainly does happen. Also, they are not necessarily any heavier than regular biners. I use the Trango Classic Lockers, and the only difference between those and the Classic Wiregates that I use for standard biners, is the gate itself. Well I have no problem with folks using locker if they want to, but... . They are heavier- even in your post you say the ONLY difference is the gate itself. But it is heavier. I guess I just don't understand the worry. I have never built an anchor where I didn't know what went where. I've never unclipped a "wrong" piece. I consider myself an extremely conservative climber and this just doen't make my worry list. I worry about lots of things when I climb but clipping a piece to cord as part of a weighted anchor with a non locking biner isn't one of them.
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rockmx
Sep 15, 2004, 11:59 PM
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Omega "D" Locker...
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ricardol
Sep 16, 2004, 12:35 AM
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I have to agree with the folks who use regular biners to connect the pieces of the anchor to their cordalettes.. no need for lockers there. use the lockers to tie yourself into the PP .. use lockers to attach a reverso to the anchor.. but for the gear to the cordaleette a biner is enough. .. i'd venture out to say that if you are building an anchor that is complex enough that you can't tell what goes where, or which biners are ok to remove .. then you are doing something wrong. .. 99% of all anchors should be very simple and you should be able to look at it and understand it in about 5 seconds. .. but if climbing with lockers on every piece of your anchor makes you happier and feel safer -- then by all means do it. - ricardo
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euroford
Sep 16, 2004, 1:50 AM
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not lockers. lugging around a half dozen lockers seams silly. i keep three on me. one for clipping in myself, one to ancher my b52, the other for the b52's brake. the second is expected to have thier own locker to clip themselves to the anchor.
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