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unabonger
Sep 15, 2004, 10:25 PM
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Thanks folks I've made a list and am going shopping. I like the looks of the Springfied Armory subcompact and the price seems reasonable, lists at <500 on the website. Probably wait on the rifle until the spring. That's when the shit usually hits the fan around here what with the warm weather and all. Just kidding I'll be using it for killing beer cans mostly.
A-Doggy
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euroford
Sep 16, 2004, 2:58 AM
Post #28 of 93
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you've really shown to know your stuff, i own allot of guns, but i'm far from a pro. so i'll just add my points for the fun of it :)
In reply to: I personally hate Glocks for a multitude of reasons.
my first gun is the sl-17c 9mm. i didn't really know what i was doing when i bought it, and i've thought many times about getting rid of it. it just wasn't what i really wanted to have when i got it. though i do say, it shoots nicely, its easy to maintain, its been 100% trouble free, and i've probobly put 3 times more rounds through it than anything else i own. its a great plinker and fun to play with, but 9mm is definitly not for home or personal self defence IMO and now that i know what i didn't know than i would have chosen several other guns over it. but, when i want to take somebody shooting who has never shot before this is the one i put in there hands. its easy to live with.
In reply to: HK's are superior, but so are the prices.
yup. my usp .45 is a piece of art, hk's stuff is beyond top notch, end of story. my only problem, is that it feels just a touch big for my hand, but this is not really a problem, i think it is just simply a fairly big gun. if i had the money i would add the usp compact to my collection.
In reply to: Ruger makes a damn fine, low budget firearm, but aside from upgrading the grips, WYSIWYG.
my sister just bought a ruger 9mm compact against my recomendation. she loves it, i think its just kinda 'okay'.
In reply to: Unless you are wanting a revolver, stay away from Smith & Wesson
this is the only point we really disagree on. i absolutly LOVE my .40 compact. it was a screaming good deal at about $350, it fits my hand like it was made for me and i shoot very well with it. when i lived in TX and could carry, it was my CC weapon of choice. its obviously not as nice of a piece of engineering as the HK, but its been realiable and well, it just fits me so i guess thats why i love it.
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epic_ed
Sep 16, 2004, 3:29 AM
Post #29 of 93
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I haven't owned a gun in years but recently have been looking around. A trusted friend and owner of a fire arms sales license highly recommends the Kahr k-9 and other models from their product line. I fired the k-9 and the smaller PM9 and PM40. All three were excellent with how they felt from a novice shooters' perspective. I'm strongly learning toward the PM40. Anyone know more about this manufacturer and the models I mentioned?
http://www.kahr.com/front.html
Ed
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rockrat511
Sep 16, 2004, 8:42 AM
Post #30 of 93
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In reply to: In reply to: tgreene, word on the remington, thats a fine gun. Thanks, but my recommendation was for the Ruger KM77VT. :mrgreen: |
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jono
Sep 16, 2004, 11:44 PM
Post #31 of 93
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the 1911 safety kicksass. i love that grip safety
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tgreene
Sep 16, 2004, 11:59 PM
Post #33 of 93
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The XD is a Glock w/ a different label! :nono:
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jono
Sep 17, 2004, 12:00 AM
Post #34 of 93
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barrel is too short for my taste.
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fecalquisinart
Sep 17, 2004, 12:04 AM
Post #35 of 93
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Try the Glock Model 23 in .40sw. Medium sizeed frame and still holds 13+1.
That being said, if the shit does hit the fan, I would stay with a military round(9mm/.45) and .223/.308 for rifle. Brass, primers, etc is easily come by and if things go into total anarchy the local NG Armory should have more than enough to resupply.
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shortfatoldguy
Sep 17, 2004, 2:40 AM
Post #36 of 93
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In reply to: The XD is a Glock w/ a different label! :nono:
No, it's not! Ergonomics are better, internals are different.
HS Produkt, the maker, hired a bunch of ex-Glock people to design this gun, and they did stuff, like the grip safety, that Glock wouldn't let them do.
It's not a Glock! It's better than a Glock.
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jono
Sep 17, 2004, 3:48 AM
Post #37 of 93
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it still has a tiny barrel.
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astroman
Sep 17, 2004, 12:34 PM
Post #38 of 93
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In reply to: it still has a tiny barrel.
Well yeah that's the idea, its a subcompact.
AstroPup
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tgreene
Sep 17, 2004, 12:43 PM
Post #39 of 93
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In reply to: It's not a Glock! It's better than a Glock.
Seriously though, while there obviously have been a few select changes, the basic premise is far to similar to be considered much of anything more than a Glock with refinements. Also, it's a very "blocky" gun, for something that has been designed as a sub-compact. Either the Beretta Cougar, the Taurus Millenium, or the Kel-Tec would be superior choices in the sub-compact category.
I'll take a mid or full sized weapon any day! :wink:
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astroman
Sep 17, 2004, 5:27 PM
Post #40 of 93
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I checked out the Taurus Millenium 9mm, wow its very lightwieght. Elegant lines, I might enjoy that with a nice Cabernet.
Also its not my only gun purchase in the next year, I'll be getting a nice full sized 1911 also but now I want a compact.
http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_111B3.jpg
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fecalquisinart
Sep 17, 2004, 7:47 PM
Post #41 of 93
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In reply to: Anything is better than a Glock; including Raven, Jennings or HighPoint!
Do you know anything about guns? You are kidding, right?
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tgreene
Sep 17, 2004, 7:52 PM
Post #42 of 93
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In reply to: In reply to: Anything is better than a Glock; including Raven, Jennings or HighPoint! Do you know anything about guns? You are kidding, right?
While my comment was obviously meant to be tongue-in-cheek, it doesn't change the fact that Glocks suck!
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shortfatoldguy
Sep 17, 2004, 9:13 PM
Post #43 of 93
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In reply to: Also, it's a very "blocky" gun, for something that has been designed as a sub-compact. Either the Beretta Cougar, the Taurus Millenium, or the Kel-Tec would be superior choices in the sub-compact category. I'll take a mid or full sized weapon any day! :wink:
Yes, it is wide for a subcompact. That's why I have the Kel-Tec .380, but the Kel-Tec is a specialized gun that pushes the limits of reliability in order to achieve its small size. (Great little shooter, though. I can put all seven in the A zone of an IPDA target at seven yards as fast as I can work the trigger--not bad for a package that size.) In the XD, I have the 4" service model, which I like very much (obviously) and shoot well for how much I get to practice. For me, the Glock feels like a length of 2x4, very different from my XD.
I think your unfavorable comparison of Glock with Jennings ought to be posted over on glocktalk... :lol:
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superdiamonddave
Sep 17, 2004, 9:22 PM
Post #44 of 93
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Registered: Jul 11, 2002
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My favorite pistol is the S & W .357 Mag. I took off the blocky wooden grips and put on Hogue combat grips. They set off the stainless steel nicely and fit my hand perfectly. Also, I had some radioactive night sites put on about 12 years ago and they are about used up, but I like them anyway. I will eventually get them replaced but they are pricey.
A question for tgreene:
I still have about 3 boxes of .357 Black Talon ammo that I bought years ago. Is the ammo legal to use? And also, what kind of life span does ammo have?
Thanks in advance,
Dave
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tgreene
Sep 17, 2004, 9:35 PM
Post #46 of 93
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In reply to: A question for tgreene: I still have about 3 boxes of .357 Black Talon ammo that I bought years ago. Is the ammo legal to use? And also, what kind of life span does ammo have? Thanks in advance, Dave
Black Talon is basically the exact same ammo as the current Winchester SXT (which replaced the BT's), but without the powder coating. They never were illegal, but due to the media hype which falsely referred to these as "cop killers", Olin/Winchester voluntarily stopped making them. There may have actually been certain municipalities such as San Francisco or Chicago that specifically outlawed them by name, but nothing was ever done on either a Federal or State level.
Most modern ammo that is created w/ non-corrosive primers is good for 10-15 years minimum, before you'll notice any decrease in performance. As long as the casings show no signs of degradation, then the ammo should be fine. Being that the BT's used nickle plated casings, they will last longer than your typical brass.
I've actually taken old ammo that was showing signs of mild corrosion and tossed it in a tumbler for a few minutes, to remove the "crud" and polish the cases, so they would feed and extract better. You have to be careful when tumbling live ammo though, since too much tumbling will eventually break down the powders, creating unsafe pressures.
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jeffers_mz
Sep 18, 2004, 8:42 AM
Post #47 of 93
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Astro:
It's been talked around, but not brought right up front, so I will.
A buddy of mine, former Marine and avid pursuer of fine firearms, has a 15 round plus one up (he never packs the magazine full to reduce the chances of a jam due to spring softening) manufactured under license copy of a Browning 9mm. If I remember correctly, it was manufactured in South America and I believe it is a Targa or a Taurus.
I mention it because it puts a lot of firepower and features that I believe meet your needs into your hands for much lower cost than anything else I've seen suggested here.
IIRC, he paid around $300 for it, new.
I don't see you worrying about 1" circles versus same hole accuracy for a while yet, but I do see you carefully balancing cost versus performance and with this weapon you gain in two ways, initial price, and continuing expense to practice with it.
It's not going to knock down a charging bull at 50 paces, but are you really worried about charging bulls or about some idjit in your house at 10 feet?
Since you're also looking into a long gun, I suspect the latter.
Something else to consider in planning your arsenal, which one are you likely to be using, and of the others, which are going to be effective in someone else's hands?
Having a full range of weapons will increase your versatility, but you can only shoot one at a time.
For close range, with at least a little bit of room to swing it, it's hard to beat a short barreled 12 gauge for putting lead on target, no matter who's wielding it. Of course, you aren't going to be carrying it concealed.
Tgreene,
A while back, I used to shoot perfect using an Anschutz .22 match rifle at 50 feet, and I'm guessing I could hit a human target today at least out to three or four hundred yards, maybe more.
If possible, I'd like to pick up a rifle that would not limit the long range accuracy I can muster, but that also shoot full automatic with minor modifications.
Cartridge availability, and common usage/ easy availibility of the rifle is also a consideration.
Know anything that fits within these two extremes, or would I be better off with two different rifles?
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tgreene
Sep 18, 2004, 4:13 PM
Post #48 of 93
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Registered: Oct 22, 2003
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In reply to: If I remember correctly, it was manufactured in South America and I believe it is a Targa or a Taurus.
In reply to: If possible, I'd like to pick up a rifle that would not limit the long range accuracy I can muster, but that also shoot full automatic with minor modifications. Cartridge availability, and common usage/ easy availibility of the rifle is also a consideration. Know anything that fits within these two extremes, or would I be better off with two different rifles? |
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jeffers_mz
Sep 18, 2004, 6:24 PM
Post #49 of 93
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Registered: Jul 11, 2002
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"You have just stated your potential intent to commit a felony"
Decidedly not, leading to one of two conclusions.
Either you simply aren't aware that I religiously follow the law, or else you are implying that an automatic weapon cannot be legally licensed unless it is purchased in that condition as opposed to being modified after the fact.
I have no objection to dotting the legal i's and crossing the t's, however, I do not wish to be dependent on required parts from an obscure or overseas manufacturer, or on the availibility of a world class gunsmith when it's time to upgrade the weapon.
If, however, after market auto's can't be licensed, then you have answered the question, indicating I need two different rifles to satisfy my objectives.
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tgreene
Sep 18, 2004, 7:59 PM
Post #50 of 93
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Registered: Oct 22, 2003
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Machineguns manufactured after May of 1986, cannot be licensed on a Form-4 for private ownership, and are restricted to Title-II/III dealers, law enforcement, military or other regulated government agencies.
No machineguns can ever be legally manufactured, except by licensed Title-II manufacturers.
If you want a machinegun; then save your pennies, deal with the red tape, and own them where legally allowed... They'll start at $2000 for junky bullet hoses, and can easily go upwards of $50,000 for a collectable. The "average" Form-4 weapon will run you just under $10k.
Subguns NFA Classified Adds
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