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jaybird2
Sep 20, 2004, 6:48 PM
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Went to Sam's Throne for the first time this last weekend and saw ONE OTHER group there. What gives? Solitude is nice, but where is everyone? Not that I encourage over-running a place and turning it into HCR (which is an awesome place with great climbing that I will visit at least once a month as long as I live in Tulsa) but some more anchors would be nice. My poor rope was beat silly from friction while running over the edges and yanking it down from being wrapped around trees for the descent. No need to bolt all the routes, but anchors would be a welcomed addition in my book. I know that the friction could have been remedied with long slings hung over the edge and I could have setup and taken down anchors from each route from the top of the climb.... That's what I love about HCR though... top out on a trad climb and then just clip it. I guess it boils down to me being to lazy, but I love busting out the trad climbs from the base of them and then just pulling the rope and moving on. Just curious to hear people's input, not ragging on Sam's. I had a great time and would climb there over and over even if nothing changed, prepared though for the anchor situation involved with climbing there.
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alan_ellis
Sep 20, 2004, 7:36 PM
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Sounds like you are spoiled from climbing at Horseshoe. :)
I like Sam's just the way it is. In fact, now that the guidebook is out of print, maybe the hordes will stop trashing the place. Not as many people climb at Sam's now because of Horseshoe. That's good.
Are you going to the Quartz Gathering on Oct 2-3? Maybe we'll see you there and we can discuss over a Fat Tire.
Alan
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kkgriss
Sep 20, 2004, 7:47 PM
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That is completely backwards-why would you want the area to be jam packed with people? Do you enjoy having to wait all day to get on a key route, working on polished holds, or fighting for a place to park or camp? To me the idea of climbing is to be able to get out and experience the outdoors-without having to deal with a crowd. However, that may just be me, but I would certainly be willing to sacrifice a top anchor-less climb to be able to climb unobstructed. Isn't climbing without fixed protection, whether on the route or at the top the point of trad climbing anyway?
Regardless, I find a low population at Sam's Throne very surprising. During my trips to the Sam's Throne, there has certainly been no lack of people.
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jer
Sep 20, 2004, 8:02 PM
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1. the reason Sam's is not packed yet is it's not yet the SEASON. Another few weeks, and especially after a frost, the campground shoudl liven up a bit on the weekends.
2. Sams has ALWAYS had an anchor problem. This is because Clay and company wanted to keep the place natural, and bolts were always seen as evil. I believe he has come around and is now seeing them as a NECESSARY EVIL. More and more anchors are popping up each season on established climbs. Personally I see this as a good thing. It saves trees up top from wearing down, and saves lives of people wandering around up top looking for an anchor. It REDUCES the impact, rather than HEIGHTENING it.
3. Yes, HCR has changed the activity at Sam's. That's a good thing. Spread the impact and noise polution instead of compacting it.
Jer
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cedk
Sep 20, 2004, 8:47 PM
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I've thought bolts would be a nice addition to save the trees as well.
Pretty hot in AR last weekend?
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alan_ellis
Sep 20, 2004, 8:56 PM
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Jer: Did you see where some guy is trying to sell copies of Clay's book for $90.00 each on Amazon.com? What a tool.....
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okieterry
Sep 20, 2004, 9:11 PM
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Sorry to diss you a little but Sams Throne is a special place where climbers need to act responsibly. Please don't pull your ropes from around trees! Pulling your rope like this is not very good for the tree or your rope. Place a sling around the tree and then rap and then later on retrieve your slings. There are several walk downs along most areas of the cliff.
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jaybird2
Sep 20, 2004, 9:30 PM
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Sorry for the babbling on, just bored at work.
Kkgriss wrote:
In reply to: That is completely backwards-why would you want the area to be jam packed with people? Do you enjoy having to wait all day to get on a key route, working on polished holds, or fighting for a place to park or camp? To me the idea of climbing is to be able to get out and experience the outdoors-without having to deal with a crowd.
In reply to: What gives? Solitude is nice, but where is everyone? Not that I encourage over-running a place and turning it into HCR (which is an awesome place with great climbing that I will visit at least once a month as long as I live in Tulsa) but some more anchors would be nice.
In reply to: However, that may just be me, but I would certainly be willing to sacrifice a top anchor-less climb to be able to climb unobstructed. Isn't climbing without fixed protection, whether on the route or at the top the point of trad climbing anyway?
Jaybird2 wrote:
In reply to: I had a great time and would climb there over and over even if nothing changed, prepared though for the anchor situation involved with climbing there.
Cedk, yeah, it was pretty hot, but chasing the shade around the throne made the day pretty nice. I am a sweating hose beast and I didn’t get fed up with the heat until about 4pm. That gives someone a window of 8 hours to climb comfortably in. If I can survive the heat, anyone can, and the climbing was good until mid afternoon. That is why I was wondering why no one was out there.
Alan, yeah, definitely spoiled with the HCR. Grew up in WI and devils lake is EXACTALLY like Sam’s. Just wasn’t prepared for it. Again, wasn’t trying to rag on Sam’s and I don’t want it overrun. The solitude was great, was just wondering why.
I will definitely be at Quartz in two weeks. Look forward to meeting you.
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jaybird2
Sep 20, 2004, 9:34 PM
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Okieterry,
I really feel like a jackarse for not doing it that way. On the throne that would be a piece of cake and just plain responsible. Thanks. And no worries, I don't take it personally. Diss away if I deserve it. :(
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bsignorelli
Sep 20, 2004, 10:09 PM
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In reply to: That's what I love about HCR though... top out on a trad climb and then just clip it. I guess it boils down to me being to lazy,
Since Sam's has such great access to the tops of the climbs having anchors at the tops of routes would make it really easy to set up top ropes....which would increase the traffic out there.
At least this way you keep the kids out who don't know how or want to set up a proper top rope.
(As an aside...HCR would be even more crowded if it had good access to the tops of the climbs without making someone lead it)
In reply to: 1. the reason Sam's is not packed yet is it's not yet the SEASON. Another few weeks, and especially after a frost, the campground shoudl liven up a bit on the weekends.
Exactly...its not the heat but the black flies that are horrid out there. That and the chiggars and ticks and rednecks :)
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jer
Sep 21, 2004, 6:25 PM
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b-sig-
I stay away until frost because of
S.nakes
H.umidity
I.vy
T.icks
Ellis:
I wish Frisbee had copies that he coudl sell for 90$, so he could afford the time to finish the next one. Sheesh...at least my kids will be able to enjoy it someday.
jer
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jaybird2
Sep 21, 2004, 6:50 PM
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What I heard:
I climb at New Heights in Tulsa during the week and we were talking about when the guide comes out. The owner, John, called a gym out East and they said that it was supposed to come out this Fall but got pushed back to next Fall. We spoke with someone at a gym who was either the author or heard it directly from the author. If the author works at a gym (or frequents one), it was probably directly from his mouth. Publisher problems they told us. I guess I got the idea that it was already finished, could be wrong about that. Hell I may even be under the impression that it is the Sam's and surrounding areas' guide when it isn't.
I will get specifics if anyone even cares. Although I know you folks out here have a strong climbing community (with all of the people that I have met, many people seem to know each other), so you all probably know more than I do.
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jer
Sep 21, 2004, 6:58 PM
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here's what I know-
Clay owns a gym in Springfield, Mo.-Petra.
He had professed to be delivering the book this fall,
but now is saying one more year.
As far as publishing problems are concerned, he is self publishing.
So...no luck. I have heard that if you need a specific area info; you can stop by the gym and make copies. But, that is just word of mouth, so don't tell em I sent ya.
jer
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jamaica
Sep 21, 2004, 7:34 PM
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I've been waiting on that book for a while now, I've only been to Sam's once and loved it but I don't know my way around the crag, that's why I've been waiting on that book, I'm one of those guys who like guidebooks, maybe if one of you experienced Sams people could show me around there sometime that'd be great. Maybe all those other crags in the Mt. Judea area too.
Jamaica 8^)
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alan_ellis
Sep 22, 2004, 1:17 AM
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In reply to: He had professed to be delivering the book this fall, but now is saying one more year. As far as publishing problems are concerned, he is self publishing.
My buddy got one of the last copies sold here in Okla. When I found out it was out of print, he copied the whole book for me. What a guy!
Has everyone seen the ads for the new "Oklahoma Select" guidebook by Tony Mayse? The book is pretty good. It's smaller than Lohn's (intentional... to better to fit in your pack) and is pretty comprehensive.
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jaybird2
Sep 22, 2004, 2:40 PM
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Are you talking smaller in content (W) or in size (H x L)?
Even when I am hauling 30 pounds of rope, cams, shoes, etc. the book has no trouble fitting in the top-pouch of my pack or my buddy's mesh exterior pouch. I was trying to "update" my new book with the old book (oxymoron) and after I had to add 10+ routes (included drawing parts of the crags that were missing) just on lower scott I gave up because of the carpal tunnel that was ensuing. If I didn't love just having the book to have a book I would've photocopied Lohn's book for the superior content.
Complaining from the peanut gallery aside, it is awesome that he put that book out. I thank him.
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alan_ellis
Sep 23, 2004, 4:12 AM
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Yeah....Lohns book has more routes, but Mayes book has Echo Dome and other stuff. The first ascent info was something that Lohns book was lacking. Both books are good and compliment each other.
How's that for politically correct? :)
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bumblie
Sep 23, 2004, 12:53 PM
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In reply to: Went to Sam's Throne for the first time this last weekend and saw ONE OTHER group there. What gives? Solitude is nice, but where is everyone?
Five years from now, you'll be nostalgic for those low traffic weekends at Sam's Throne. :wink:
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fitzontherocks
Sep 23, 2004, 1:55 PM
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I thought I had posted this earlier, but for some reason, it didn't take. I've got a Sam's Throne guidebook (used, but in good shape) that I'll part with. PM me and make an offer.
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blindfrogguy
Sep 23, 2004, 4:31 PM
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I'm at Sams almost every Monday because it's quiet. I do have to agree about the season not yet starting there. In a while you'll have to get there on Thers. just to find a camp site. I do have a large house in Harrison, so if you can't find a spot, let me know. :wink:
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fitzontherocks
Sep 23, 2004, 4:35 PM
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The Sam's Throne Guidebook is officially spoken for.
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jaybird2
Sep 23, 2004, 4:58 PM
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I hear you guys about the season. So the bugs become more sparse... right... man I hope so. We were warming up on Penetence and a WOLLY MAMMOTH of a spider jumped onto the leaders foot. Honestly, this thing was like 3 inches in legspan and freakin hairy as a greek sailor. He (climber) was screaming like a sally and could be heard throughout the entire Outback I am sure. What a great warmup, he almost took a whipper in his frantic attempt to remove said beast. And the flys, I call them B52's, they could go also. Great climbing though.
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muslmutt
Oct 2, 2004, 1:41 PM
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Sounds like there are actually a couple people who weren't out there on labor day weekend. Please don't tell me that place gets any busier than that. Funny, the only people we saw last weekend were lost. They couldn't find the throne, wound up at Hero Maker Wall.
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bsignorelli
Oct 2, 2004, 2:17 PM
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In reply to: Sounds like there are actually a couple people who weren't out there on labor day weekend. Please don't tell me that place gets any busier than that.
I was out their briefly on Sat afternoon (of labor day weekend) and it was empty. I saw just 3 cars in the parking lot. So yeah...it does get busier.
Busy is when the Honda Civics are driving down the left road :) Or when cars are parking on Hwy123.
But then again that same day HCR had about 20 cars parked at the kiosk and a few more in the upper parking lot.
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bsignorelli
Oct 2, 2004, 2:19 PM
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In reply to: The Sam's Throne Guidebook is officially spoken for.
Another suggestion (devious as it is) to obtain a Sam's Throne guidebook is to search your local public libraries and then borrow the book.
Then "lose" the book and pay the penalty fee. :twisted:
Not the most kosher thing to do but you could always just check it out and photocopy the book and make your own version of it.
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