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therealbovine
Sep 21, 2004, 9:34 PM
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After many years of climbing and guiding, I still see climbers Back-clipping. It happens. We all do it from time to time, whether we are ignorant, pumped, scared or just don't care. The thing I see that seems ridiculous is the thought that un-clipping the rope, then re-clipping it is the best way to "fix" this common mistake. Un-clipping is just as, if not more dangerous than the Back-clip you are "fixing". What if you fall? How pumped are you gonna get farting around with a clip you've already made?
Here is an easy way to fix the back-clipping issue - Flip the biner. Its a simple concept. By flipping the biner you have eliminated the chance of the rope falling over the gate side of the biner, which is why Back-clipping is dangerous. This technique also works if your biner ends up laying in a poor posistion, or in such a way that the gate might open rubbing on the edge of a crack or on an obtrusion of rock. (note: You flip the biner while still in the sling, you never remove or un-clip it)
f.y.i.- you will have to remove those fancy rubber gadgets that companies put on quick-draws to prevent the biner from moving.
So climb on, climb fourth, and remember.....If you back-clip ,flip that biner and keep climbing!
Best of luck!
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 21, 2004, 9:46 PM
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In reply to: f.y.i.- you will have to remove those fancy rubber gadgets that companies put on quick-draws to prevent the biner from moving.
Most people like those rubber thingies for a good reason. They keep the biner from moving and getting crossloaded.
Flipping the biner is a great idea for trad slings.
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sbaclimber
Sep 21, 2004, 9:58 PM
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I have taken the rubber off from around the rope biner, but then wrap a rubber band around the draw just above the biner. This way there is still enough of a constriction to keep the biner from accidently flipping into a cross-load position, but I can still slide it around by hand when I need to.
btw. is it a bad idea to put the end of a draw with the rubber bit around the bolt biner? I can kind of think why it might be, but would be interested in hearing if any one else has any firm arguments for or against it.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 21, 2004, 10:12 PM
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In reply to: btw. is it a bad idea to put the end of a draw with the rubber bit around the bolt biner? .
Yes, it is a bad idea.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=517271#517271
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wonder1978
Sep 21, 2004, 10:29 PM
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Just when I thought I'd never read anything useful again on rc.com.
In all honesty, It never came to mind to do something as simple as flipping the biner.
Good tip, thanks
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jenfu
Sep 21, 2004, 10:40 PM
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Flipping the biner is a great idea. But, there is a caveat. If the route goes straight up from that point, flipping the biner around doesn't matter. However, if the route traverses or even goes up diagonally from there, the biner that the rope is clipped into should face away from the direction that the climber is traveling to minimize the chance of the rope crossing the gate in the event of a fall and unclipping the rope. Probably only a tiny chance of that happening but I like to have the odds stacked in my favor.
Cheers,
JenFu
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rob
Sep 21, 2004, 10:50 PM
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In reply to: Flipping the biner is a great idea. But, there is a caveat. If the route goes straight up from that point, flipping the biner around doesn't matter. However, if the route traverses or even goes up diagonally from there, the biner that the rope is clipped into should face away from the direction that the climber is traveling to minimize the chance of the rope crossing the gate in the event of a fall and unclipping the rope. Probably only a tiny chance of that happening but I like to have the odds stacked in my favor. Cheers, JenFu
It actually doesn't matter. When you flip the biner the hinge of the gate is now at the bottom rather than the top, there is not really any way that a rope falling across the gate can push the gate open then move up the gate and reclip itself.
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jonnyb
Sep 21, 2004, 10:53 PM
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This is technically still a back-clip. Although in tense trad climbing situations, it's not the first thing on my mind, it's important to know the right way to clip. The reason this is bad, to quote an old climbing magazine article:
..it's angle will force the carabiner into an alignment perpendicular to the rock, possibly causing the gate to whiplash open-at this instant, the carabiner is significantly weakened and could break.
It only takes a little practice to make clipping correctly second-nature.
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jumpingrock
Sep 21, 2004, 11:11 PM
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Put on another draw. Then take off the original. Actually I just worked it though my head and this could twist the rope very oddly but the fall would be smaller and unless there is something that I am missing should be safe. It works with my trad draws but that's because the draw can twist. I am pretty sure that the usual sport draw can twist as well so it should work.
Or learn the proper way to clip and make sure you can do it in your sleep.
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killclimbz
Sep 21, 2004, 11:14 PM
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In reply to: Or learn the proper way to clip and make sure you can do it in your sleep.
Exactly.
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caughtinside
Sep 21, 2004, 11:19 PM
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Or, you can leave the rope in the bottom biner, and unclip the draw from the bolt, turn it around, and reclip.
Hope the safety police like that one! :P
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jenfu
Sep 21, 2004, 11:22 PM
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Hi Rob. You are right. I misunderstood the original post and thought the suggestion was to take the biner out of the draw, rotating it 180 degrees on axis and clipping it back into the sling. I see now that he meant to rotate the biner up-side-down within the sling. Thanks.
JenFu
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philbox
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Sep 22, 2004, 12:10 AM
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I pretty much always flip all my biners on the rope end of my draws when I am climbing. Sometimes I will even attach a second opposed biner when I am coming up to a crux. On the odd occassion I will sometimes put a small locker on the rope end.
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therealbovine
Sep 22, 2004, 1:57 PM
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In reply to: Or, you can leave the rope in the bottom biner, and unclip the draw from the bolt, turn it around, and reclip. Hope the safety police like that one! :P
The whole concept of this tip is to keep people from un-clipping a peice of gear that they are already clipped into, to save time and energy by not re-clipping anything. Flipping the biner in the sling that is already attaching you to a safe peice of gear is fast and keeps you climbing. There is no need to un-clip from a good peice of protection just because you've back-clipped. Flip & go. Simple! This applies to both traditional and sport climbing technique.
Best of luck!
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overlord
Sep 22, 2004, 2:12 PM
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i have backclipped only once. then i went home and practised. it hasnt even been close since.
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une
Sep 22, 2004, 3:15 PM
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I followed the link to the other forum and now understand why the loose end of the draw should be on the bolt. Having said this, I bought a sport climbing package about a year and a half ago and it came w/ 12 premade Metolius draws. All of these draws had a straight gate biner on the tight end and a bent gate biner on the loose end. If this is common knowledge that the loose end of the draw should be on the bolt why/how would Metolius get it wrong? :shock:
I guess I gotta switch my biners when I get home. :x
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caughtinside
Sep 22, 2004, 3:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Or, you can leave the rope in the bottom biner, and unclip the draw from the bolt, turn it around, and reclip. Hope the safety police like that one! :P The whole concept of this tip is to keep people from un-clipping a peice of gear that they are already clipped into, to save time and energy by not re-clipping anything. Flipping the biner in the sling that is already attaching you to a safe peice of gear is fast and keeps you climbing. There is no need to un-clip from a good peice of protection just because you've back-clipped. Flip & go. Simple! This applies to both traditional and sport climbing technique. Best of luck!
I realize this, and it's a good tip. My suggestion is just an alternative. Plus, you'll notice that my suggestion works if the bottom biner is held firmly in place by a rubber band or petzl string.
It is easier to unclip the top biner from the bolt and rotate it, than it is to unclip the rope from the biner, and reclip.
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glowering
Sep 22, 2004, 4:19 PM
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Now I've heard 3 things called back-clipping.
1. Rope goes from biner towards rock to climber. (what I think of when I hear back-clip)
http://mirror.altrec.com/...howtogo/l_clip1a.jpg
2. Biner gate faces the wrong way re: direction of travel
3. Climber clips rope into bolt/pro with rope from below the last placement. So the rope zig-zags and the upper bolt is rendered useless and creates terrible rope drag.
Maybe we need some more terms or I'm just not aware of them.
How 'bout
1. Back-clip
2. Side-clip
3. Under-clip
The biner keepers on the rope end keep the rope end biner from getting cross-loaded. I've started using fixeusa ones even on my 24" trad slings. Makes it real easy to undo trad draws as well.
The loose end on the pro side helps to keep movement from being transfered to the piece, causing the biner to unclip from a hanger or dislodge a piece of pro.
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une
Sep 22, 2004, 4:26 PM
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#3 is called z-clipping as far as i'm aware.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 22, 2004, 4:29 PM
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And #2 is not a back clip, but it doesn't have its own name yet. People refer to by saying that the bottom biner is facing the wrong direction.
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glowering
Sep 22, 2004, 4:30 PM
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Z-clip that makes sense, thanks. I've probably heard that before.
Rotating/flipping the biner will not really correct situation 1. You need to unclip one end and fix. If the route crosses back over the pro or goes straight up you could still unclip in a fall.
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microbdcamalot
Sep 22, 2004, 4:46 PM
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Anyplace one can go to see illustrations of z-clipping and backclipping as i do not understand what either is, and everyone just makes it more confusing and all
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jimmylegs
Sep 22, 2004, 6:53 PM
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In reply to: Anyplace one can go to see illustrations of z-clipping and backclipping as i do not understand what either is, and everyone just makes it more confusing and all
Did a quick search on google and found some backclipping stuff here
http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/howto/backclipping.asp
The drawing below is from that website.
http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/...nhowto/backclip3.gif
Looks like if you back clip, you run the risk of the rope opening the gate in a fall.
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sbaclimber
Sep 22, 2004, 9:34 PM
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the photo in the post above (here) is a another good example of what you shouldn't do (although it can only come unclipped while climbing, not falling), but still isn't entirely clear (e.g. doesn't show which end is the climber's).
glowering posted a really good picture of a back-clip here.
and here is an amusing, but accurate cartoon of a Z-clip about to happen:
http://climbing.com/...tips/Sport.224-2.gif
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therealbovine
Oct 1, 2004, 2:41 PM
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In reply to: The drawing below is from that website. |
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