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iwannaclimb
Sep 22, 2004, 6:50 PM
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Hey, I allready searched the forum on this topic, and I couldn't find what I was really looking for, so here goes.
I am going to go buy my first rope this weekend, so that I can start top-roping... I was gonna buy a pad for bouldering, but I may just do this since I won't have to have a pad and am not really good enough to solo probably. ANYWAY...
I need to know
A) What I need to set up a top rope from a tree(s).
B) Instructions, or link to instructions on how to tie the knots.
I know (some what) how to tie off for raping, but climbing is different since I need the rope to move for me and the belayer. So let's hear how I do it =).
Thanks, *Newbie Climber*
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iwannaclimb
Sep 22, 2004, 6:53 PM
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P.S. I do plan on taking someone who knows what they are doing...
However, if he cannot go, I still want to try if I can get the information.
Also, I plan on doing extensive testing on weather or not it is holding up before I actually trust my life with it. So no worries, I'm too scared to do something stupid (knock on wood) :wink:
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keinangst
Sep 22, 2004, 6:56 PM
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I don't generally post naysaying stuff like this, but I have to assume you're not a troll.
Please, please do not do this by yourself. Until you have the ability to look at possible anchors, tie equalized webbing, set up biners, etc, you should really be under the wing of someone more experienced. It is a lot different than rappelling.
No two TR setups on earth are exactly the same, so you have to be able to adapt to what is available.
So I can at least be of some help, be sure you buy a couple strands of 1" tubular webbing (20' or so) and maybe a 30' or 40' strand for longer runs. You should also pick up at least two locking biners and two non-lockers as a BARE minimum, in addition to the belay gear (ATC, HMS biner, etc). I'm sure others will offer advice, and probably some flames...
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pumpout2004
Sep 22, 2004, 6:59 PM
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1- 20' Webbing
2- 4 locking Biners
3- 50-60 meter Rope
4- Climbing basics (ie: harness, ATC ect.)
And most importantly someone who knows what they are doing. Unfortunately even if u test ur system out before climbing on it forces that u wouldn't expect can be exerted. Have someone show u how to set up a TR.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 22, 2004, 7:11 PM
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In reply to: P.S. I do plan on taking someone who knows what they are doing... However, if he cannot go, I still want to try if I can get the information. Also, I plan on doing extensive testing on weather or not it is holding up before I actually trust my life with it. So no worries, I'm too scared to do something stupid (knock on wood) :wink:
As far as I can tell, you're not scared enough. Probably because you do not even know what to be scared of.
The key factor that you seem to have missed is the belayer. Another is that you do not have any basis for evaluating a top rope anchor.
Go top roping with someone who knows what he is doing before you go out and buy a rope.
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hoppinbig
Sep 22, 2004, 7:22 PM
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I hear Home Depot has a great deal on ropes
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wyattwyattwyatt
Sep 22, 2004, 7:23 PM
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your question was a little broad.
go to a climbing store and browse the book section. there is usually a book devoted just to top roping and plenty of others on anchors and knot tying. there is also a lot of information on the internet. go to google and see what u can find. read all u can from different sources. buy your equipment and practice your knots.
its best if have a more experienced friend if u have questions, but i think common sense and caution are your most important allies.
read until u feel u confident, and if a specific question arises, try posting it here...
i really hope nobody flames this guy for simply looking for information.
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johnson6102002
Sep 22, 2004, 7:23 PM
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In reply to: 1- 20' Webbing 2- 4 locking Biners 3- 50-60 meter Rope 4- Climbing basics (ie: harness, ATC ect.) And most importantly someone who knows what they are doing. Unfortunately even if u test ur system out before climbing on it forces that u wouldn't expect can be exerted. Have someone show u how to set up a TR.
i would also bring 2 more peices of 30 feet webbing but i agree with everything else here
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chrisparedes
Sep 22, 2004, 7:23 PM
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I think 4 or 5 pieces of 20ft webbing would be good for most TR situations. Learn to tie water-knots to attach the pieces of webbing, and you should learn other basic knots such as a figure 8 and different hitches which can be good for equalizing anchors. You also might want to pick up "How to Rock Climb!" It's a good begginers read.
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robmcc
Sep 22, 2004, 7:24 PM
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Seriously. Go buy a book. Or several. This is not the way to learn something which makes the difference between a happy day of climbing and bleeding all over a perfectly good rock.
Rob
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wyattwyattwyatt
Sep 22, 2004, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: I hear Home Depot has a great deal on ropes
not that i would want to be the one to test this theory (nor am i suggesting that anybody else should), but hypothetically speaking, i bet u could find something at home depot that would be just fine for top roping. i mean, u shouldnt be falling more than a foot or two, so the lack of rope stretch wouldnt be too much of an issue. i mean, its not like any rope that isnt specifically made for climbing is weak and worthless. i've towed vehicles with ropes; surely if they can hold up to that they could hold a couple hundred pounds...
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robmcc
Sep 22, 2004, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I hear Home Depot has a great deal on ropes not that i would want to be the one to test this theory (nor am i suggesting that anybody else should), but hypothetically speaking, i bet u could find something at home depot that would be just fine for top roping.
:shock:
Please, Wyatt. Step away from the keyboard. This is one of those rare posts that just should never have been made.
Rob
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hoppinbig
Sep 22, 2004, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I hear Home Depot has a great deal on ropes not that i would want to be the one to test this theory (nor am i suggesting that anybody else should), but hypothetically speaking, i bet u could find something at home depot that would be just fine for top roping. i mean, u shouldnt be falling more than a foot or two, so the lack of rope stretch wouldnt be too much of an issue. i mean, its not like any rope that isnt specifically made for climbing is weak and worthless. i've towed vehicles with ropes; surely if they can hold up to that they could hold a couple hundred pounds...
And you just proved that you have no business rock climbing without someone who knows better...
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cruzit
Sep 22, 2004, 7:57 PM
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Assumming you're not a troll, I would strongly suggest you spend your free time this winter reading this book:
MOUNTAINEERING: THE FREEDOM OF THE HILLS, 7TH EDITION
Editors: Steven M. Cox, Kris Fulsaas Authors: The Mountaineers, The Mountaineers
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wyattwyattwyatt
Sep 22, 2004, 8:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I hear Home Depot has a great deal on ropes not that i would want to be the one to test this theory (nor am i suggesting that anybody else should), but hypothetically speaking, i bet u could find something at home depot that would be just fine for top roping. :shock: Please, Wyatt. Step away from the keyboard. This is one of those rare posts that just should never have been made. Rob
ha, ha. i thought that might get someone's attention. but come on now -- i thought i made it pretty clear that i wasnt suggesting that anybody actually do this. it was just something that i was putting out there as a hypothetical sort of thing.
but really, havent u ever climbed a rope in gym class? been on a big rope swing as a kid? those ropes didnt break, did they? like i said, i've towed vehicles with them.
again, let me make this clear: i think it would be a bad idea for somebody to use a rope from home depot for top roping. the rope is certainly inferior to a rope designed for climbing, and if your life is on the line, one should use the best equipment.
that being said, i think its a little silly to act as if using a non-climbing rope is suicidal. i bet u the climbers in the early 1900s would jump at a chance to go shopping at home depot. : )
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wyattwyattwyatt
Sep 22, 2004, 8:17 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I hear Home Depot has a great deal on ropes not that i would want to be the one to test this theory (nor am i suggesting that anybody else should), but hypothetically speaking, i bet u could find something at home depot that would be just fine for top roping. i mean, u shouldnt be falling more than a foot or two, so the lack of rope stretch wouldnt be too much of an issue. i mean, its not like any rope that isnt specifically made for climbing is weak and worthless. i've towed vehicles with ropes; surely if they can hold up to that they could hold a couple hundred pounds... And you just proved that you have no business rock climbing without someone who knows better...
arent we being a little too serious for someone who made the initial home depot wise crack? lighten up. and we do know what the word "hypothetical" means, dont we? : )
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feanor007
Sep 22, 2004, 8:49 PM
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common guys, some one asked about toproping from a tree, not buying ropes rom home depo, if you want to talk about that pm each other, because i personaly never want to here home depo, rope and climbing in the same sentence.
as to the real question, i to once thought top roping was as simple as slinging a few trees then climbing (this was when i'd only climbed in gyms). then some one explained to me veriaty of ways one can kill ones self on a tope rope and that idea quickly evaporated. find some one who knows what they are doing, not just says they do, if your in a gym, look for the people that never say anything, than wait till no ones looking and send some crazy route, attention seekers scare me, or ask around and find out who has the most technical skill, not strength. Look for trad climbers, nothing against sport -it's all i can do- but trad climbers gerally have better technical knowladge in the area of building anchors. thats just a trend i've noticed, it might or might not be true. once you find some one to learn from soak up all the info you can. watch everything they do, listen to every thing they say. why? because there still alive and climbing, so chances are, they are doing somthing right. i also suggest reading a book, i'd recomend Climbing: from gym to crag by S. Peter Lewis and Dan Cauthorn, Freedom of the Hills, as suggested earlier, is impossible to argue aginst as well. good luck and be safe
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iwannaclimb
Sep 22, 2004, 11:15 PM
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Thanks guys, AWESOME help so far.... one more thing though.
about all the posts on webbing, I read on another site for trad climing that in many cases webbing will tear on the bark of trees, and they suggest other forms of ropping on tree's such as using sleeves. Is this something I should be very concered about? (Well, obviously very concerned... but I mean is webbing really going to be a problem when top-roping from a tree)
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chitown_coop
Sep 23, 2004, 3:28 AM
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In reply to: Assumming you're not a troll, I would strongly suggest you spend your free time this winter reading this book: MOUNTAINEERING: THE FREEDOM OF THE HILLS, 7TH EDITION Editors: Steven M. Cox, Kris Fulsaas Authors: The Mountaineers, The Mountaineers
An awful lot of people say this, but I don't know if it's the best advice for a total noob (I'm including myself in this category!). No doubt it's a very useful encyclopedia of climbing, but I don't think that it's necessarily the right book for the aspiring top-roping crag-climber.
I think the better idea would be to do the "John Long Library" a.k.a. the Falcon Guides. Start with "How to Rock Climb" which will give you a really basic idea and also teach you most of the knots and familiarize yourself with the equipment, and then check out "Top Roping" which will give you an idea of what would be involved in such endeavors. Then check out "Climbing Anchors" and "More Climbing Anchors" to get a really good idea of the types of anchors that you will need to build. THEN you should meet up with someone at a crag who will teach you how to do all of these things safely.
Just my 2 cents, though...this is more or less my personal plan of attack as far as learning goes.
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happiegrrrl
Sep 23, 2004, 3:44 AM
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Freedom of the Hills was the second climbing book I purchased, and though I skipped the glacier section, and was baffled by maps and compass-reading, found it to be quite helpful. There's a lot more to climbing real rock than slinging a tree and finding someone willing to hold the belay device......
My 3rd book was Basic Rockcraft. Then I got How to Rok Climb. Then Accidents in North American Mountaineering(2003). Then Climbing Anchors, More Climbing Anchors, Knots for Climbers, Advanced Rock Climbing, Advanced Rockcraft....
But then, I like to read....
I've had sessions with guides on gear placement and anchor building.
But I've climbed outside with others less than 10 times so far, and have not yet set up an anchor for someone with more experience to critique.
.....I would not go out toproping on my own yet.
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kobaz
Sep 23, 2004, 4:00 AM
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In reply to: is webbing really going to be a problem when top-roping from a tree)
There will be a problem if the webbing is in a constant motion while its wrapped around the tree. In general, fibers rubbing against something = friction, friction = heat, heat can cause your webbing to fail (i.e. break).
Definatly do alot of reading and watching before you set up a top rope yourself. There is more to know than just tieing knots and equalizing everything.
The books "Climbing Anchors" and "More Climbing Anchors" are geared towards using pro to set up anchors. Start off with using just webbing and trees (make sure they are beefy trees, not shrubby saplings, and not dead). Definatly read "Knots for Climbers", "How to Rock Climb!", and "Toproeing". Save the climbing anchors books for when you get comfortable with webbing and trees.
Step 1: Learn to tie a double figure 8, double fishermans, a water knot
Step 2: Read about when and why these knots are used, or ask an experienced climber.
Step 3: Sling some pieces of webbing around the legs of your dinner table and tie the apropriate knots to join the pieces together and then equalize everything. Understand what equalizing is and get comfortable with it.
Step 4: Go to a craig with someone who is an experienced climber and watch him set up a toprope, ask many questions.
Step 5: Repeat step 4 many times
Step 6: Buy your gear
Step 7: Go to a craig with an experienced climber and have him watch you set up a toprope, have him double check everything (having others check helps as well).
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pico23
Sep 23, 2004, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: Hey, I allready searched the forum on this topic, and I couldn't find what I was really looking for, so here goes. So let's hear how I do it =). Thanks, *Newbie Climber*
First thought on a post like this is obviously TROLL but lets say you're not.
Top roping isn't rocket science. if your using a single bomber tree you probably need to know 2 knots (a tie in knot and the girth hitch) and get some slings. for a super thick tree you might need to know the water knot for tying webbing. perhaps of fishermans if you prefer cord.
if you insist on teaching yourself your best bet is to do yourself a favor and get one of the numerous climbing books out there. MFOTH is a great book but many people say it assumes you have general climbing knowledge. something like the how to rock climb series or A Trailside Guide To Rock Climbing by Don Mellor will be good.
For someone so independent it seems weird that you'd ask this question without having any knowledge which you claim to not have. A lot of people teach themselves to climb but most don't seem so totally clueless.
I'm still inclined to think this is a troll. but i gave it (a half hearted) benefit of the doubt.
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pico23
Sep 23, 2004, 4:08 AM
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In reply to: Freedom of the Hills was the second climbing book I purchased, and though I skipped the glacier section, and was baffled by maps and compass-reading, found it to be quite helpful. There's a lot more to climbing real rock than slinging a tree and finding someone willing to hold the belay device...... My 3rd book was Basic Rockcraft. Then I got How to Rok Climb. Then Accidents in North American Mountaineering(2003). Then Climbing Anchors, More Climbing Anchors, Knots for Climbers, Advanced Rock Climbing, Advanced Rockcraft.... But then, I like to read.... I've had sessions with guides on gear placement and anchor building. But I've climbed outside with others less than 10 times so far, and have not yet set up an anchor for someone with more experience to critique. .....I would not go out toproping on my own yet.
this is kind of the two extremes. happiegirl is all set to go but without the confidence in her own skills and iwannaclimb is clueless with more balls than brains.
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insert_cool_name_here
Sep 23, 2004, 5:14 AM
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In reply to: Assumming you're not a troll, I would strongly suggest you spend your free time this winter reading this book: MOUNTAINEERING: THE FREEDOM OF THE HILLS, 7TH EDITION Editors: Steven M. Cox, Kris Fulsaas Authors: The Mountaineers, The Mountaineers
tis a great book indeed I have gone through it once and am making a second pass now =)
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happiegrrrl
Sep 23, 2004, 12:04 PM
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In reply to: this is kind of the two extremes. happiegirl is all set to go but without the confidence in her own skills and iwannaclimb is clueless with more balls than brains.
pico23 - Admittedly, I tip toward the side of caution more than necessary, but I don't think "all set to go" is quite accurate. To go toproping when there are trees abundant for anchors; without a doubt I could do that. But, the climbing area near me is the Gunks, and Peterskill, which is especially great for top ropes. But, at Peterskill, most of the anchors are not trees, but gear placement. A different story.
Plus, there are plenty who would be happy to go out toproping with me - people who have never climbed outdoors, that is. To take responsibilty for managing the day, belay skill assessment and overall safety is not a small thing. Though I haven't much experience, I've already seen some pretty dumb stuff going on out there. I don't think it's so extreme to want to have a few more intermediary steps before I go out climbing with people less experineced than myself.
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