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roughster
May 21, 2002, 3:22 AM
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Had big plans on bolting some new routes this weekend and Mother Earth decided to piss all over my fun. Grrrr.......
On a good note however, the rain prompted me to go through my gear closet, where I found an old stash of bolts and hangers. Woot!
/e evilishly rubs his hands together and prepares for good weather next week.
New routes shall be mine! Oh yes, oh yes
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fulltilt
May 21, 2002, 4:33 AM
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Is there top roping available on this route instead of bolting the whole wall?
Just wondering.
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roughster
May 21, 2002, 5:03 AM
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Sure top roping is available. All you have to do is scramble down from the cliff top across blocks the size of VW Bugs that are loose and covered with loose dirt/plants. Maybe set some pro on the ones that seem the most stable. Pray to God the whole time your rope, gear, anchor doesn't dislodged one of the blocks taking out you and your belayer in the process.
Or you could maybe set a dirt picket above the fractured blocks. Maybe bring a post hole digger, spend a few hours sinking in 6 foot deep posts to rig as anchors.
Sure I can think of alot of ways we could set up TRs, or I could continue developing the area with safety and lead climbing in mind.
Not to be mean, but couldn't techincally anything be top roped? I understand that not everyone supports sport climbing, but many areas it really is what makes sense. The top of cliff is so fractured that I have bolted 2 of the routes so far ground up and placed the anchors well below the cliff top because cliff top access is not available and/or not safe.
Just wondering where you are going with this? Care to elaborate or should we just assume that you are implying that anything that can be top roped should be left a TR?
[ This Message was edited by: roughster on 2002-05-20 22:07 ]
[ This Message was edited by: roughster on 2002-05-20 22:07 ]
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krustyklimber
May 21, 2002, 7:57 AM
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Go easy there Roughie,
Don't let the weather ruin your time here online!
Don't let Fulltilts unfounded and uncalled for remarks ruffle you either, he so obviously is just looking for a fight!
Fulltilt how many crags have you developed? And just how popular are these TR's? Do you even know of the area he's developing, I do and there is no freaking way I'd attempt to set up a TR there (back in the 80's a motorcyclist fell off the loose trails into the quarry), the rim is a mess.
Thank you Aaron, for all the hard work it takes to develope an area (I know how much work it can be). Some people will come to love your area, but there will always be people who will make judgement calls without any real information to base them on!
Fulltilt you are in Cal why don't you volunteer to help, instead of detracting from the hard work of another individual who is OBVIOUSLY contributing to our community. A route pioneer can always use a patient belayer, and can offer a pile of FA's as reward! Maybe that would be a better way of attracting attention to yourself!
Jeff
[ This Message was edited by: krustyklimber on 2002-05-21 00:59 ]
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maddie
May 21, 2002, 8:32 AM
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Damn, that sux!
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sauron
May 21, 2002, 1:18 PM
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I think a few others need to take sum of 'em "chill pills" too..
krusty, a little flame happy there?
- d.
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krustyklimber
May 22, 2002, 5:47 AM
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I just reread that myself, And I don't think I was "Flame Happy" at all!
Roughster wasn't looking to be raked over the coals over the bolting issues that continue to segregate our community. He never said he intended to "bolt the whole wall". So IMHO (humble might be a stretch) he didn't deserve it!
I didn't think I was out of line asking for Fulltilts resumé (as his profile shows nothing about it, and his posts have been generated by double triple and even quadruple posting the same things, go read some of them), or encouraging him to help Aaron with all the hard work and expense of route pioneering!
I'm not the one who made a judgement without first gathering some real information!
As I said, I know of the area he's working in (I rode motorcycles there in the 80's) and it has needed someone like Aaron to come along and make it a climbing area for millions of years (it is rock after all). And my appreciation was and is sincere!
Besides TR'ing everthing doesn't seem very "full tilt" to me!
Why? You want some of me, Dom?
Jeff
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fulltilt
Jun 17, 2002, 11:23 PM
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Roughster:
I was just wondering what the conditions were at the crag you were talking about because I have not seen it personally. I was not trying to get you to top rope something if its not safe. Safety does come first and that's one of the reasons I was curious about the area you want to bolt. There are plenty of crags that "had" bolts in them but they have been torn off because the rock is just too brittle to place bolts in (maybe it was set wrong? who knows... I've only seen the holes and the cracked rock where the bolts used to be). I am not against sport climbing at all and I was not trying to pick a fight as krusty mentioned.
Krusty:
It looks like you're the one who is trying to start the fight. You jumped into this thread and started your accusations when my question was not even directed towards you. I was simply asking a question and did not intend to segregate the climbing community as you mentioned. Do you also know how big California is? I don't know about you but for most people, its not like they can just drop everything they're doing and drive for hours to help someone develop a crag. To answer your question about how many areas I've developed... I have developed none because all the places I climb at are ALREADY developed. What's the point of overdeveloping?
As for my online profile, why is it so important to you anyway? Do you respect others' privacy or do you expect everyone to have their names and personal information available to the public? Regarding my previous posts, I have no idea what you're rambling about. Feel free to re-read through them all and tell me what I have double, triple or quadruple posted.
You said, "I'm not the one who made a judgement without first gathering some real information!" How exactly did I judge roughster with my post? Your line was a bit hypocritical too... you judged me without first finding out why I was asking my question.
I do have to say that the mockery of my handle was somewhat funny... I almost cracked a smile. I think the proper response to that juvenile dig is to kick sand in your face from a sandbox... which one do you hang out in?
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micahmcguire
Jun 18, 2002, 5:53 AM
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Fulltilt-I'd say from your previous post you sounded an awful lot like a greenie who doesn't want the rock to be "marred" by bolts. I know people like that, they piss me off something fierce! Maybe this is an off-base assumption, but boy did you lead with your chin!
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krustyklimber
Jun 18, 2002, 7:07 AM
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And I'm sorry that I "let you have it" but I did, and I still think you deserved it!
You seem to have cleaned up your (admittedly few) multiple posts, but you still write drivel.
Let those who know how to, do the developing, without harrasment from the peanut gallery, would ya!
You started this not me! Aarons cry for sympathy didn't need to be answered with your insults, and if you were to do it again so would I.
Jeff
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doosh
Jun 18, 2002, 2:01 PM
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The fact that he immediately thinks "Toprope!" means he immediately assumes that this rock is not steep at all.
If the rock isn't steep, why would you develop it?
Then again... why put on a rope at all?
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danwilli
Jun 18, 2002, 2:50 PM
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I think you people need to chill. This is what fulltilt first posted...
Is there top roping available on this route instead of bolting the whole wall?
Just wondering.
How on earth is that in any way starting a fight, making an acusation, or anything else? He has a good question. But, clearly Top Roping isn't available, and you could have just left your response to that, rather than assuming that he was totally against bolting, and that he was going to start spewing some crap about how bolting is bad, and that sport climbers suck. He didn't even come close to mentioning any of that. You seem a bit defensive about the whole thing.
Anyway, my point is, there are plenty of people that are for bolting, and plenty of people that are against it. And I think both parties make some valid arguements, and we should all keep an open mind about the benefits of both.
No one knows everything, and maybe if we listen to other people's opinions once in a while, we may learn something that can make us better climbers, and help preverve the areas we climb in.
Or we could all continue to whine like a bunch of 2 year olds. Thats fun too.
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doosh
Jun 18, 2002, 3:46 PM
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Top roping is always "available"... sometime you just have to drill anchors where you want to toprope from.
Of course, on steep rock, toproping makes no sense and can be more dangerous than leading.
So, you stick to your nice, vert tr's and leave the hard climbing for the rest of us.. ok?
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danwilli
Jun 18, 2002, 4:00 PM
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Right on Doosh. But see you don't even know what type of climbing I do. You just incorrectly assumed (again) that I just do top roping, or that i think top roping is the only way to climb.
But my post was simply pointing out that fulltilt was only asking a valid question that did not merit everyone jumping on his case.
And I'm fully aware that TRing can be extremely dangerous in the wrong situations which in roughster's case it clearly was. Again, I never argued that bolting was wrong. Just making a point that fulltilt was just asking a question.
But thanks for the suggesting. I'll stick top roping my 5.2's where i'm nice and safe and leave the hard climbing to the rest of you.
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fulltilt
Jun 19, 2002, 3:03 AM
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Very interesting...
Krusty, just to fill you in... I am not a site admin nor do I know any of them personally so how would I clean up any of my posts? Notice that I don't have any edits on any of my posts either? You say I write drivel but just look at what you typed... completely void of any thought.
Your English comprehension must be a little slow too, do you not see the sentence where I mentioned all my climbing areas are already developed? How does that mean that I do not know how to develop an area? If you're the king of developing areas, why didn't you develop that area that roughster is doing now 20+ years ago?
I highly doubt roughster was looking for sympathy from his original post... I do believe he is a full grown individual and doesn't need a father figure to defend him. I would not hesistate to post a question to anyone in the future about anything... if you would like to flame me for every post I make, please feel free to do, I really could care less although I have no idea what I've done in the past to offend you.
As for your line, "You started this not me!"... yep, an all time favorite line from kindergarten. Tell you what, I'll give you the satisfaction of "ending" it with another post as I do not feel the need to defend myself anymore to you or anyone else. When you're writing your next flame... I'll be off leading... oops, I mean top roping since most of you assume that's all I do.
PS- danwilli, you gotta show me the technique you use to climb those 5.2s!
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danwilli
Jun 19, 2002, 1:59 PM
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Fulltilt,
It as taken me years of strict conditioning, endless extensive training from my baby sister and grandmother, a fortune in equipment, and a climbing library that would rival all others, for me to obtain the level of climbing superiority I have. I truly think it impossible to ever impart the vast knowledge I poses that would unlock the secret of the ominous 5.2
I appreciate your flattery, but I must insist that you never try such a deadly feat. Leave the 5.2 top roping to me. You stick to the easy stuff.
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micahmcguire
Jun 19, 2002, 8:11 PM
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hey roughman, why not put a two-bolt anchor up at the top for the people who want to top-rope, and bolt the hell out of the face for people who want to lead? Easy solution? I hope so! Boy, I feel just so smart thinking of that, wow, that would make this route like every other bolted route (which is good, I like the idea of being able to top-rope on hard stuff until I am comfortable with the lead). Anyways, what an interesting fight. Keep it up! Let the blood fly!!
PS-roughman, you have my respect for placing all those bolts. Thank God for people like you who make climbs doable with a dozen draws instead of a thousand dollar rack!
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samshafer
Jun 23, 2002, 11:02 AM
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Sounds to me like Roughster & Krusty either both have PMS or need their Lithium dosage adjusted. Either way, I suggest lots of Valium for the both of 'ya. I'm still trying to figure out why you found Fulltilt's simple question so offensive?
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