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is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ?
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waltereo


Oct 6, 2004, 8:28 PM
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is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ?
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Hi,

I wonder if I can climb securily with only 1 set of nut , the 3 smaller tricam (pink, red, brown) and WC hexcentrics (5->9) ??


(I known it depends of the route I want to do !)


Thanks


grenzo


Oct 6, 2004, 8:33 PM
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Re: is it safe to clomg with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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Hey, give'er dude. But stick to single-pitch routes well within your ability until you figure out your comfort level. I totally started leading on two sets of nuts, a set of tri-cams and a set of hexes and stayed that way for a year or two. Have fun and play safe. Oh yeah, you'll need some draws and slings for them nuts, but you don't need me to tell you that ;)


sbaclimber


Oct 6, 2004, 8:45 PM
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Re: is it safe to clomg with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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As long as you know how to place them properly, yes. I climbed for a number of years with only 2 sets of BD stoppers. It restricted number of routes I felt I could protect well, but as long as I chose wisely I had no problems. I agree with grenzo that you should probably stick to single-pitch routes, although I used to do real easy, multi-pitch slabs in the Adirondacks with just the stoppers.


dirtineye


Oct 7, 2004, 1:54 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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You answered your own question. Some routes will hardly take a cam, you pretty much have to do them with nuts and other passive pro.


valenzuela


Oct 7, 2004, 2:03 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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That's the best way to learn to climb trad. If you start with cams you won't be good at placing the passive gear when needed.

Don't forget a couple of bail-off rings just in case there needed.

If it don't feel right back it up!!!


ihuang


Oct 7, 2004, 2:20 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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Don't waste time with passive gear. Plug in the cams and move on. There is no time to waste fiddling around with nuts when you're hanging off one finger. Seriously though, I don't find myself placing passive pro much.


jumpingrock


Oct 7, 2004, 2:33 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Don't waste time with passive gear. Plug in the cams and move on. There is no time to waste fiddling around with nuts when you're hanging off one finger. Seriously though, I don't find myself placing passive pro much.

Then you need to figure out how to get better stances. Try using your feet. Makes it easier to stop hanging from one finger.


the_pirate


Oct 7, 2004, 2:51 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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YER ALL GONNA DIE......




eventually


ophir


Oct 7, 2004, 3:11 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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"plug in a cam and go"
have fun dude....splat


ldsclimber


Oct 7, 2004, 3:13 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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thousands of routes have been put up with less than that. Keep your cool and don't climb what you are not comfortable falling on or you better be able to down climb it.


grayhghost


Oct 7, 2004, 3:29 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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avoid indian creek


rcaret


Oct 7, 2004, 3:57 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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I have a very good friend who climbs on passive gear , Nuts and hexes , Exclusively and at times so have I , I believe it to be as safe as climbing can be considering placements


ashmoo


Oct 7, 2004, 5:17 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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Look in your guidebook for climbs with a First Ascent pre 1970. These were all done without cams.


davidji


Oct 7, 2004, 6:09 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Look in your guidebook for climbs with a First Ascent pre 1970. These were all done without cams.
Lots of them used pitons.


davidji


Oct 7, 2004, 6:12 PM
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is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I wonder if I can climb securily with only 1 set of nut , the 3 smaller tricam (pink, red, brown) and WC hexcentrics (5->9) ??


(I known it depends of the route I want to do !)
I guess you pretty much answered your question with that last sentence.

Let's say you've got a set of 10 nuts. Add that to your 3 tricams, and 5 hexes. That's 18 pieces of pro. So you've got three in this belay, which leaves you with 15 for the next pitch. Hopefully you'll have 3 that fit left over for the next belay. Doesn't sound like an especially complete rack to me. Don't plan to sew things up...


berserk


Oct 7, 2004, 6:35 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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Sorry, but isn't that a rather ignorant question? "Safe to climb with passive gear only"!?!? It's not like camming devices has been around always. The old rock-masters managed well without them, so why shouldn't we?


jumpingrock


Oct 7, 2004, 7:43 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Sorry, but isn't that a rather ignorant question? "Safe to climb with passive gear only"!?!? It's not like camming devices has been around always. The old rock-masters managed well without them, so why shouldn't we?

I dunno. The old timers survived without water and electricity. So why shouldn't we?


ihuang


Oct 7, 2004, 7:44 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Sorry, but isn't that a rather ignorant question? "Safe to climb with passive gear only"!?!? It's not like camming devices has been around always. The old rock-masters managed well without them, so why shouldn't we?

I dunno. The old timers survived without water and electricity. So why shouldn't we?

They also climbed with 2x4 as pitons... would you?


darkside


Oct 23, 2004, 8:36 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Sorry, but isn't that a rather ignorant question? "Safe to climb with passive gear only"!?!? It's not like camming devices has been around always. The old rock-masters managed well without them, so why shouldn't we?

I dunno. The old timers survived without water and electricity. So why shouldn't we?

JR: You well know that I can climb without cams and do it safely :P The answer is because you may not always have the cam you want.


Apart from anything else, a trad climber who is not proficient at nutcraft will eventually run into problems. Cams are nice and great for plug and go cruxes but are NOT needed for safe ascents. Climb on with the passive gear until you can beef up your rack with a few cams. When you do start to buy cams, get finger to hand sizes first and expand the range from there.


gunkiemike


Oct 24, 2004, 8:23 AM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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Henry Barber has FA'ed hundreds of routes up to 5.12 (maybe 13, I don't know). He has never placed a camming unit. Doesn't own any, won't carry them.


dirtineye


Oct 24, 2004, 9:21 AM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Apart from anything else, a trad climber who is not proficient at nutcraft will eventually run into problems. Cams are nice and great for plug and go cruxes but are NOT needed for safe ascents. Climb on with the passive gear until you can beef up your rack with a few cams. When you do start to buy cams, get finger to hand sizes first and expand the range from there.

Climbing with someone who is good with a nut is educational. And inspiring too!

Whether or not a route needs cams to be safe depends on the route, don;t you think? IF you got into some line where the pro had to be smaller than a pink tri-cam, and the sides of the placement were parallel, you'd need little cams. I've been in that spot a few times!

On the other hand I have been on a 5.12 that HAD to have tri-cams, it will even be in the guide book as Tri-cams required (A good cam at the proper spot makes this route safer, as do the tri-cams. This points out that you should use the best choice of gear for the moment, and stop worrying about being a slave to an ideology). And then there is a route or two by a friend that are 5.11, and it's NUTS NUTS NUTS all the way. Someone tried using cams on one of those 5.11s and took a very bad gear ripping fall, resulting in a terrible injury. So you could even say, sometimes if you insist on using a cam where a cam won't really go, you might even make a route more dangerous.

Just a quick and simple but often overlooked way to keep a critical cam from walking, if you have not thought of it before: Oppose two cams in tensioned opposition. (Works for a cam and something else as well). This is much easier than opposing passive gear, and your cam will not be walking, LOL.


curt


Oct 24, 2004, 9:23 AM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Henry Barber has FA'ed hundreds of routes up to 5.12 (maybe 13, I don't know). He has never placed a camming unit. Doesn't own any, won't carry them.

Ditto with Steve Wunsch.

Curt


rotcgal82


Oct 24, 2004, 10:17 AM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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The best way to taste what trad climbing is about is with passive pro. Cams maybe quicker but I think they are the easy way out. Nuts, hexes, tri-cams... they push you to be confident in your climbing abilities and they make you rely soley on your judgement. I made my first lead using only nuts and hexes, and maybe on tri-cam. And by the way... that tri-cam is still lodged. On that first lead, I was going to make sure that if I fell, my pieces weren't going to go anywhere. So to answer your question... I think that using both is fine... but as a beginner, you develop the knowledge and climbing skills by using passive pro.


climbhoser


Oct 24, 2004, 12:31 PM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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I had a poor friend who during his first season of lead climbing climbed all over the northwest of the US with just two sets of nuts. At the end of the season he was leading 5.11s.

In agreement with an above post that it completely depends on the nature of the climb. Being schooled in Eldorado, myself, I ended up using nuts all the time, tricams in the flatirons and cams only hither and thither. When I finally got climbing in California I skipped an obvious parallel sided crack to place a small nut in a seam instead. My boss, who I was climbing with, had never seen that done. I told him in that case I just felt better about that particular nut placement than what could have been done with a cam. It was a perfect constriction and my nut was buried.

I just tell that story to show that it depends on the situation. Just avoid Yosemite for the most part and you'll be fine ;)


thomaskeefer


Oct 28, 2004, 9:33 AM
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Re: is it safe to climb with only nuts, hex and tri-cam ? [In reply to]
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As was stated before, people who climbed in the old days did so with passive gear and pitons.. While the idea that you can safely stick to climbs that were put up pre 1970 is accurate, it implys that you are also willing to climb them in a manner which damages the rotue (nailing).

At the end of the day, consider your motivation for climbing on passive only.. is it to impress the old guys? Is it to save money?

I would love to hear an argument as to why using active gear off the bat hinders your ability to use passive gear and why no one ever says only use active othewise the passive gear will hurt your ability to learn active.

If it is the money.. go for and then 10 feet above your last nut which has now slid out of the paralell crack your climbing ask yourself... was this worth it? If it is to impress the old guys then you are climbing for the wrong reason!! Remember during the period that people talk about everyone leading passive (and nailing) only the "leader must never fall' was the mantra of the time.

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