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boulder_boy
Oct 7, 2004, 9:37 PM
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Hey guys I've been looking into ice climbing and do you guys think it would be better to learn from a guide or from my brother who has been doing this for about 3-4 years? Because I've been looking into maybe taking a 3 day training course at Ouray, Colorado, but it is kind've expensive(300-400 dollars) yet I think it would teach me really well.
thanks for responses in advance
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microbdcamalot
Oct 7, 2004, 10:06 PM
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Come up to the daks, and me and my buddy will teach you better then any money hungry guide will, just shop up is al lwe ask.
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slobmonster
Oct 7, 2004, 11:04 PM
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Maybe take one day's worth and see how it feels. You may find out that your brother has been teaching you unsafe techniques guaranteed to hasten your death; or, his ability and smarts could be confirmed.
If you're going to Ouray anyway, and you have your own gear, it's really not all that hard to find people to climb with. Very easy place to set up topropes. Do some more research... ice climbing isn't all that complicated, it just gets funky and frightening. If you have the basics down, more mileage will help you more than any "class."
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gunkiemike
Oct 9, 2004, 11:46 PM
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In reply to: Maybe take one day's worth and see how it feels. You may find out that your brother has been teaching you unsafe techniques guaranteed to hasten your death; or, his ability and smarts could be confirmed. If you're going to Ouray anyway, and you have your own gear, it's really not all that hard to find people to climb with. Very easy place to set up topropes. Do some more research... ice climbing isn't all that complicated, it just gets funky and frightening. If you have the basics down, more mileage will help you more than any "class."
Agreed. If you are a capable, well experienced ROCK climber, you can pick up ice climbing easily. A book such as the Falcon Guide "How to Ice Climb" will also be helpful. One thing IMO cannot be stressed enough - don't stand under a climber. Ice chunks fall all the time, often without making a sound. A helmet is no match for a 15 lb dinnerplate.
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mgr
Oct 10, 2004, 12:43 AM
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I would go for the lessons with a guide. It would just make me feel better to go with someone who knows what their doing.
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alpiner
Oct 10, 2004, 1:58 AM
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No doubt you can learn from friends. That's what the majority of climbers do. But you'll learn faster, better, and safer from a good guide in an intensive course, particularly in Ouray -- nothing like it in the Lower 48. There are plenty of guides to choose from down there but, no matter what, stay away from Andy Petefish, uberasshole.
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jimdavis
Oct 10, 2004, 4:57 AM
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I have a bunch of buddies that all lead Ice, but I decided to shell out the money to do a clinic with Mark Synnott. I must say, the experience you get of seing someone like Mark teach and how he climbs is very very valuable.
I think if you can hire a guide that you absolutly respect and trust, the confidence you'll gain from their instruction and feedback can be invaluable.
Do a day with the guide, and ask them what they think you should work on. Go work on it for a while with your buddies, then come back and do another day later with a guide.
That's my advice, best of luck.
Jim
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kid
Oct 10, 2004, 3:39 PM
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I agree that a day spent in a clinic would be of great value. If you are just starting out climb with friends on easy ice. Start with the basics, a good swing and good crampon form on lower angle ice. It is worth the time spent. Practice self reliance on low angle and get comfortable with your technique. Start leading on those routes and progress to harder stuff. Untill you get dialed in, top rope, and trail. If you do this and then take an advanced clinic you will be amazed at how dialed you will become. Good luck ~ Grag F.
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stompie
Dec 27, 2004, 4:01 AM
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www.ourayclimbing.com
$285 a single person full day.
$305 for their 2 day ice course.
Epquipment is included in the fees.
The Victorian Inn is a great place to stay in Ouray.
Ouray is a great place to learn, zero approach @ the ice park so you can focus a full day on honing your skills. I have climbed with a couple of their guides and they are great teachers. I would highly recommend them.
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kaijin
Jan 16, 2005, 2:33 AM
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In reply to: Do a day with the guide, and ask them what they think you should work on. Go work on it for a while with your buddies, then come back and do another day later with a guide.
I agree 110% with Kid and Jim! My partner and I did exactly this when we were first starting out a few years ago. We hired a guide from Yamnuska in Canmore for the third day and seventh day of a nine day trip, and got all the instruction we needed, nothing at all that we didn't. It may seem like it costs more but those two days of private instruction but it gave us what an extra year of experience and learning on our own would have taken to get.
But I would think that your learning curve would drop off pretty sharply after 2 or 3 cycles, and after that a good partner and lots of mileage and are what you'll want most.
Good luck and climb smart!
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jimdavis
Jan 16, 2005, 6:10 AM
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In reply to: www.ourayclimbing.com $285 a single person full day. $305 for their 2 day ice course. Epquipment is included in the fees. The Victorian Inn is a great place to stay in Ouray. Ouray is a great place to learn, zero approach @ the ice park so you can focus a full day on honing your skills. I have climbed with a couple of their guides and they are great teachers. I would highly recommend them.
I hear Ouray is utter chaos. A buddy of mine was out there recently and said he saw everything from bleeding head injuries, to people getting dropped in the river, to complete idiots making clusterf*** anchors.
Probably not the kind of environment I'd like to learn in.
Just what I hear, hope it's not always that bad.
Jim
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climberjack11
Jan 17, 2005, 2:17 AM
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How Funny and what such Bull Shit....
Andy Petefish operates THE ONLY guide service and climbing school in Ouray Colorado that has not KILLED a CLIENT in the Ouray Ice Park.
The only guided fatality (and the Second only in the Park...) occurred under the watch of self proclaimed "Local Experts" San Juan Mountain Guides. (www.ourayclimbing.com)
With the FACTS out of the way, I want you to know I had a wonderful and incredible time climbing with Andy Petefish of Ouray Ice Climbing Guides from January 2nd to the 6th. I chose to climb with Andy because he had the ambition, fortitude, foresight, and knowledge that only comes from growing up in Western Colorado and guiding there for the last 35 years, not to mention the fact he has never dropped a client to their death on a simple Ice Park top rope. This depth fo local experience took us away from the chaotic, hacked to oblivion, over rate, and over croweded Ouray Ice Park into to the real back-country where the spirit and nature of non Artificial (REAL) Ice Climbing is discovered. Thank your GOD he did not lead us accident ridden and shallow depths of the congested and overcrowded chatoic Ouray Ice Park!
Now for the amazing part, Andy Petefish, took us into the back county with two other folks under a group rate for only $105/person/day including gear and boots. Go figrure? After doing our research and actually climbign with Ouray Ice Climbing Guides, we figured high guide fees must equal high kick back fees for the Ouray Ice Park or local Victorian Inn asskissing dues....
I recommend starting with hiring guides that have not dropped clients to their deaths on a simple top rope nor left their partners to die.
You'll get more out of ice climbing with a guide that teaches you to climb on real ice and not manmade ice next to a dump outside of town that is overcrowded with climbers that are too lazy and/or fat to walk a mile uphill on a railroad grade to find real ice..... Just a Thought?
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jimdavis
Jan 17, 2005, 2:23 AM
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In reply to: How Funny and what such Bull s---.... Andy Petefish operates THE ONLY guide service and climbing school in Ouray Colorado that has not KILLED a CLIENT in the Ouray Ice Park. The only guided fatality (and the Second only in the Park...) occurred under the watch of self proclaimed "Local Experts" San Juan Mountain Guides. (www.ourayclimbing.com)
You missed my point, I didn't say anything about the quality of the instruction at Ouray. I merely stated that the Ice Park is not an environment that I'd like to learn in.
Jim
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climberjack11
Jan 17, 2005, 3:04 AM
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Sorry Jim:
I couldn't agree with your origianl post more. I was trying to reply to the post by alpiner above, but I must have made a mistake or the programing on this group does not support threads...?
My reply was not directed toward you..
Cheers!
Jack
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slobmonster
Jan 17, 2005, 5:52 AM
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climberjack, it sounds like you took Petefish's bait. Or, more likely, you are in fact him, and trying to wrangle some more business with angst as your marketing strategy.
The fatality you refer to is indeed an interesting one, and unfortunate. It is well known, and quite well publicized, how Mister Petefish contacted the wife of the deceased and brought what amounted (in my opinion) to an unfortunate incident to seem a nefarious and negligent act.
I'm glad you had a good time, and learned some ice climbing basics.
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jimdavis
Jan 17, 2005, 8:10 AM
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In reply to: Sorry Jim: I couldn't agree with your origianl post more. I was trying to reply to the post by alpiner above, but I must have made a mistake or the programing on this group does not support threads...? My reply was not directed toward you.. Cheers! Jack
No worries,
Jim
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stompie
Jan 18, 2005, 3:28 PM
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Wow. I just was trying to relay my personal experiences in Ouray not lookin to start a war. The Park is what it is. A Park. Great place to learn & work on technique.
I am too far from the case in so many respects to even try and talk about it but I know there are many sides, angles, & a lot more to it than what has been written here.
I keep typing more and deleting it. I'll just quit now.
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stompie
Jan 18, 2005, 3:30 PM
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Wow.
I just was trying to relay my personal experiences (not hearsay) in Ouray not lookin to start a war. The Park is what it is. A Park. Great place to learn & work on technique.
I am too far from the case (again hearsay) in so many respects to even try and talk about it but I know there are many sides, angles, & a lot more to it than what has been written here.
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stompie
Jan 18, 2005, 3:30 PM
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Wow.
I just was trying to relay my personal experiences (not hearsay) in Ouray not lookin to start a war. The Park is what it is. A Park. Great place to learn & work on technique.
I am too far from the case (again hearsay) in so many respects to even try and talk about it but I know there are many sides, angles, & a lot more to it than what has been written here.
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kailas
Jan 28, 2005, 3:55 PM
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Registered: May 23, 2004
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The 'park' has become a gaper fest, proving that yes, ice climbing has unfortunatly become a more popular city-geek sport. When you go there
and meet Texans and guys from the south, all toproping the park and calling themselves ice-climbers then you know there's going to be trouble.
:P
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