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Partner coylec


Oct 18, 2004, 11:53 AM
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Aid Climbing Forum F.A.Q.

This FAQ is an attempt to provide a useful index to generic, basic and common questions frequently asked in the Aid Forum. All of the information contained therein represent the opinions of various contributors to rockclimbing.com. If you have additional questions or comments regarding a specific topic, post in the linked threads, rather than creating a new one.

Each numbered section has its down post below. You can either scroll down or click the link. Enjoy!

coylec

1. What is Aid Climbing

2. Ethics
a. Clean Aid
b. Hammered Aid
c. Hammering at home
3. Moving Systems (2/3/4/Russians)
a. 2
b. 3
c. 4
d. Russians
4. How to Jug
a. Yosemite
b. Gri-Gri 2:1
c. Frog
5. How to Clean
a. Gri-Gri 2:1
b.
6. Soloing
a. Self Belay Methods
i. Clove Hitch
ii. Gri-Gri
iii. Aid Soloist
iv. Silent Partner
b. Tagging / Solo Tag Rack
7. Hard to Find Items
a. Kong Block Roll
b. Russian Aiders
c. Aliens (REI stocks 'em)
d. Hybrid Aliens
e. Adjustable Fifi
8. Personal Issues
a. Pooping
i. Chute
ii. Flower (?)
b. Urination
i. Male
ii. Female
c. Sleeping
i. Single
ii. Double
iii. Hammock (?)
9. Best 1st Wall
a. Yosemite
b. Zion
c. Looking Glass
i. Glass Menagrie
10. Yosemite (Basic Information)
a. Camp4
b. Approach
c. East Buttress Descent
d. Weather


crotch


Oct 18, 2004, 1:07 PM
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Best 1st wall?


alpnclmbr1


Oct 18, 2004, 1:13 PM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=581468#581468

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42306


moof


Oct 18, 2004, 1:44 PM
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A. 2/3/4/Russian Aiders, which is best.

B. Attaching daisies to aiders (someone needs to compile a list of the 6-10 most common moving systems with good detail).

C. How do you jug best (2:1, frog, one or two aider(s) per jug, rest on top or bottom jug, etc).

D. Best wall boots.

E. Yosemite weather by month.

F. What should I make tie offs out of, how many should I carry for route XYZ.


t-dog
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Oct 18, 2004, 2:12 PM
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How do you poo/pee/sleep on a wall?


Partner holdplease2


Oct 18, 2004, 3:18 PM
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My Favorite: I want 2 lern 2 aid solo is there a book that can show me how2? Where do you tie in at?

Sources for:

Kong Block Roll
Russian Aiders
Aliens
Hybred Aliens
Adjustable Fifi


Aid Ethics Intro: Folks who are new to the aid forum may have the 'perception' that because it is Aid, there are no rules...do what you need to do to get up the rock. A somewhat more refined understanding to approaching aid protection could help save the rock from folks who would choose a less impactful method of climbing if they were introduced to it here...The FAQ might be a good place to start. Not with preaching, but with balanced arguments of

About clean climbing...damage the rock as little as you (reasonably) can on your ascent and why...

About nailing...how to avoid over-driving a pin, 'constructive' cleaning

Can I nail at my local trad crag?...a bit of information of how to choose practice aid lines...and how to interact with other climbers about your practice. (Don't nail established trad lines, don't learn to aid on the most popular hand crack in the tri-state area on a holiday weekend)

Not meaning to create work here...I think that there are extensive discussions on all of these topics which could be linked to the FAQ.


-Kate.


tech_dog


Oct 18, 2004, 3:27 PM
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Water knot or double fishermans?

or

What's the best small cam?


epic_ed


Oct 18, 2004, 8:19 PM
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- Adjustable daisies or regular?
- What gear do I need to start aid climbing?
- What are Russian Aiders and how do I find them?
- How do I get faster at aid climbing?


We could do a whole section just on Yoseimte specific questions...


epic_ed


Oct 18, 2004, 8:21 PM
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In reply to:
Not meaning to create work here...I think that there are extensive discussions on all of these topics which could be linked to the FAQ.

I think that's pretty much what we have in mind. Since all (or most) of these questions have been answered, we'll probably just link to answers that are regarded as time-honored classics -- I'd imagine each question will have multiple links.

Ed


Partner coylec


Oct 18, 2004, 9:40 PM
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In reply to:
Not meaning to create work here...I think that there are extensive discussions on all of these topics which could be linked to the FAQ.
-Kate.

I know that epic_ed and edge love working, but I'm a lazy SOB - I was going to link, copy and paste! So, if anyone has really good posts they want to see in the FAQ, please PM.

coylec


epic_ed


Oct 18, 2004, 10:19 PM
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Yeah, who said I wanted to do the work? :P


Partner coylec


Oct 21, 2004, 2:06 PM
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Changes to the FAQ are up ... discuss and criticize.

coylec


Partner coylec


Oct 28, 2004, 4:02 PM
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1. What is Aid Climbing
a. Definition
RC.com Climbing Dictionary defines Aid Climbing:

Aid Climbing - n Originally called direct aid or artificial climbing, aid climbing is a means of ascent where the climber’s weight is supported primarily, or entirely, by slings attached to a device attached to the rock, rather than by the climber’s own hands, feet and other body parts as in free climbing. Upward progress is not required: weighting the rope, or resting on gear is aid. Difficulty increases as security diminishes.

In reply to:
Well, NEWSFLASH!

Its totally true, aid climbing is cheating.

What's more, aid CLIMBERS are dirty rotten cheating bastards too, even the women. Take this to heart, cause you need to know it, you need to remember it.

We climbers live in a tribal world and let me tell you, the Aid Tribe is a bunch of lunatics. They have their own values, mores and traditions and like pirates of old, they are handed down in, um, oral folklore (hehe).

Aid climbers tend to stick together, like clumps of sticky rice. They don't blend in well with their more civilized cousins. Why, stick an aid climber in a sport climbing party and all too soon you will hear the whacking of a hammer off in a dark corner somewhere.

Did I mention cheating? Aid climbers actually exchange ideas on new and better ways to cheat! Can you imagine? While you're off at the gym, studiously avoiding all dirt, grim, and risk why an aid climber is likely sneaking in the back door of the ranch and dooking the wife if you get my drift?

Do NOT leave your girlfriends, or even your BOYFRIENDS, unescourted at any aid climber gathering, not even long enough to get another Old E from the cooler. You have been warned.

I once saw the coolest poker game. Warren Harding was playing Texas Holdem with Death herself. Warren won that game with ease. And he was cheating the whole time and Death didn't even know it! Gawd we laughed till we cried, Warren Harding cheating Death again!

Aid climbers even mourn the loss of their own differently. A while back a friend and I were doing some trade route in the height of the season. There were real aid climbers all over the N American wall. One team was high on a very cutting edge route, and I use that term on purpose. The leader ripped near the end of an A5 lead and peeled the whole team off the wall, hook, line and sinker. They augered in and then there was a deathly silence as we all looked down in horror.

And then from somewhere over on the eastern end, down below Born Under a Bad Sign, a proud voice hailed,

"IT'S ALL RIGHT MATES. WE'LL SEE EM AGAIN IN HELL!!!111 ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!"

And in unison, in a thunderous response of respect and dark fatalism, the tribe answered,

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!111111" Till the very bones of the Captain herself trembeled beneath their combine voice. Yes even the mighty Captain herself knows aid climbers are cheaters. But she has her ways of dealing with them too?

Mountaineers Live Free!
DMT

b. Rating System (A, C, Cf)

John Long and John Middendorf, Big Walls, give this rating system:

A0: Hanging from gear, stepping on pitons, pulling up on nuts, etc. Everything that doesn't require aiders and can't be honestly called 'free climbing'. Also known as "french free".
A1: Easy aid. Placements are easy and bomber. Each piece should hold a fall.
A2: Moderate aid. Solid but often awkward and strenuous placements. Maybe a difficult placement or two above good pro. Falls pose no danger.
A2+: Moderate aid, but with more tenuous placements above good pro. There is a potential for serious falls, but these will generally be otherwise uneventfull.
A3: Hard aid. Requires many tenuous placements in a row and pieces need to be tested before weighting them. There should be solid placements within the pitch, but they are rather few and far between. During a fall, up to eight pieces of pro may rip out, but there generally is little serious danger. Takes several hours to complete a pitch.
A3+: A3, but with a dangerous fall potential.
A4: Serious aid. Most placements hold little less than body weight and falls are serious affairs. Being 10 to 15 meters (30 to 50 ft) above the last solid piece is not uncommon.
A4+: Very serious aid. Placements are often very marginal and pitches require many hours to complete.
A5: Extreme aid. No piece in the whole pitch can be trusted to hold a fall. No bolts or rivets in A5 pitches.
A6: A5 with poor belays that won't hold a fall. The leader pops and the whole team is airborne. No one sane has ever done this, and no one insane who tried came back to tell us about it.

Clean aid ratings are done with same scale, only with a 'C' instead of an 'A'. So C4 is serious aid, only without hammered aid. Typically a pitch will go at a lower 'A' rating than a 'C' rating.

The 'C' rating system is supplemented with a 'f' when the clean lead is dependent on fixed pieces, such as fixed pitons or heads. A C2f is a clean pitch that depends on fixed hammered gear.

There is also the CRS (Casual Rating System) proposed by Jim Bridwell. There is also a debate about "New Wave" aid grading.

These threads discuss aid ratings:
(1) Ask Dr. Piton ... About Aid Ratings

c. Speciality Gear
One of the most commonly asked questions is what do I need for an aid rack. These threads discuss aid racks:
(1) Dr. Piton need advice on starter aid rack
(2) Ask Dr. Piton ... About a Typical Aid Rack

i. Copperheads/Aluminumheads
Commonly known as heads, these are small dallops of metal on a cable. They are placed using a hammer and chisel/punch, and typically are only for bodyweight placements. Copperhead wrote an amazing guide to Making your own heads. These threads provide information about heads:
(1) Ask Dr. Piton How to Place Heads
(2) Fish Product's Tech Weenie Page on Cable Info

ii. Offset Cams
(1) Alternatives to Hybrid Aliens
(2) Offset Friends

iii. Pitons
French for nail, pitons are metal nails which are pounded into the rock. They are not clean climbing and their use must be judicious. The following threads discuss various aspects of pitoncraft:
(1) Ask Dr. Dumped On ... How hard should you drive a pin?
(2) Ask Dr. Piton ... about how to maked a sawed-off
(3) Ask Dr. Piton ... About Hero Loops and tie-offs

iv. Hooks
Hooks are a variety of metal hooks, which are used to hang off a piece of rock. They are typically used for body-weight only and used solely for movement. An expert technique is using hooks for protection - this is highly advanced, dangerous and not recommended for beginners. The following threads have good information about hooks:
(1) Hooking.
(2) How to Sling Hooks
(3) Hooks

v. Screamers
These load limiters reduce the impact force on a piece of protection, a key element in advanced aid climbing. The following threads provide informaiton:
(1) Ask Dr. Piton: Is There A Better Way to Use Screamers

vi. Rivets
A rivet is typically a 3/4" or 1" long Grade 5 machine bolt of 5/16" diameter pounded into a quarter-inch hole. These threads discuss rivets:
(1) Ask Dr. Piton What's up with Rivets?
(2) Rivet Hangers


Partner coylec


Oct 28, 2004, 5:35 PM
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If you would like to contribute, edit, write or otherwise get involved with the creation of the Aid Forum FAQ, please let me know either by PM or by posting here.

coylec


lambone


Nov 18, 2004, 7:45 AM
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Are there people up there???? Really? Where?

followed by:

How do they get the ropes up there?

followed by:

How do they get down?

followed by:

If there is a trail down the backside, why are they climbing up the face?

:roll: :wink:


dingus


Nov 18, 2004, 7:51 AM
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"Am I really cut out for this aid game?"

What it takes to become proficient at the 6th grade... it may save some folks a lot of wasted money! I think that is the most important aid FAQ of all, whether people are smart enough to ask it is another Q I guess... (I wasn't!)

Another one:

"What happens when the weather turns foul?"

Lastly:

"What self-rescue techniques are specialized to wall climbing?"

DMT


sierrasnowsurfer


Apr 7, 2005, 4:39 PM
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In reply to:
Well, NEWSFLASH!

Its totally true, aid climbing is cheating.

What's more, aid CLIMBERS are dirty rotten cheating bastards too, even the women. Take this to heart, cause you need to know it, you need to remember it.

We climbers live in a tribal world and let me tell you, the Aid Tribe is a bunch of lunatics. They have their own values, mores and traditions and like pirates of old, they are handed down in, um, oral folklore (hehe).

Aid climbers tend to stick together, like clumps of sticky rice. They don't blend in well with their more civilized cousins. Why, stick an aid climber in a sport climbing party and all too soon you will hear the whacking of a hammer off in a dark corner somewhere.

Did I mention cheating? Aid climbers actually exchange ideas on new and better ways to cheat! Can you imagine? While you're off at the gym, studiously avoiding all dirt, grim, and risk why an aid climber is likely sneaking in the back door of the ranch and dooking the wife if you get my drift?

Do NOT leave your girlfriends, or even your BOYFRIENDS, unescourted at any aid climber gathering, not even long enough to get another Old E from the cooler. You have been warned.

I once saw the coolest poker game. Warren Harding was playing Texas Holdem with Death herself. Warren won that game with ease. And he was cheating the whole time and Death didn't even know it! Gawd we laughed till we cried, Warren Harding cheating Death again!

Aid climbers even mourn the loss of their own differently. A while back a friend and I were doing some trade route in the height of the season. There were real aid climbers all over the N American wall. One team was high on a very cutting edge route, and I use that term on purpose. The leader ripped near the end of an A5 lead and peeled the whole team off the wall, hook, line and sinker. They augered in and then there was a deathly silence as we all looked down in horror.

And then from somewhere over on the eastern end, down below Born Under a Bad Sign, a proud voice hailed,

"IT'S ALL RIGHT MATES. WE'LL SEE EM AGAIN IN HELL!!!111 ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!"

And in unison, in a thunderous response of respect and dark fatalism, the tribe answered,

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!111111" Till the very bones of the Captain herself trembeled beneath their combine voice. Yes even the mighty Captain herself knows aid climbers are cheaters. But she has her ways of dealing with them too?

Mountaineers Live Free!
DMT

So the next time im on a big wall with you I can count on you freeing the A4 section for me.. cool thanks


bandycoot


Apr 7, 2005, 5:17 PM
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Beautiful writing by Dingus again! :D


iamthewallress


Apr 7, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Either you actually climb with Dingus or didn't get it? Maybe both?


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