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Adjustable daisy chain with cordelette ...
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waltereo


Oct 22, 2004, 3:52 PM
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Adjustable daisy chain with cordelette ...
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Hi,

Instead of using a daisy chain I' plan to use the following
setup instead:

Materials: 2m of 8mm cordelette, locking biner

end 1
end 2
Q = locking biner
Q
F = double overhand knot
8 = figure 8 knot


1 ----------------------------------- 2


1- At one end of accessory cord , I clove hitch to the locking biner

Q--------1
Q-------------------------------2



2- For safety, I double overhand end 1 to the other part of the accessory cord not too tight so it can slide

Q-------F
Q------------------------------2


3- Then with end 2, I pass it through my wraist and leg loop and do a figure 8 knot

Q-------F
Q------------------------------8



When at the anchor, I just have to clip into the anchor with the locking biner .And with the clove hitch I can adjust it to the right length.

PROS: - clove hitch is secure
- figure eight is secure
- 8 mm cordelette is strong
- adjustable
- cheap
- cordelette can be change yearly
- when adjusting length, you are always tied , just have to slide the
clove hitch to adjust

CONS: - have to be very familiar with clove hitch and its adjustment


What do you think of that ?


Thanks for comments

edit : modification as recommended by david yount


ricardol


Oct 22, 2004, 4:04 PM
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Re: Adjustable daisy chain with cordelette ... [In reply to]
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what is this for? -- (btw i could not make heads or tails of your diagrams) .. -- (i take that back -- i reread your post and understand the diagrams) ..

is this for tying into the belay ? -- (yes it is)

.. why not just use the climbing rope (its already attached to your harness) .. and clove hitch into the anchor PP .. simple .. needs no extra gear .. and safe.

-- ricardo


thegreytradster


Oct 22, 2004, 4:19 PM
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Re: Adjustable daisy chain with cordelette ... [In reply to]
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What's wrong with a clove hitch backed up by a figure 8 at the strong point?

I can't make sense out of your explanation at all.


waltereo


Oct 22, 2004, 4:37 PM
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The clove hitch is on the biner, it is back up by a double fisherman.


bandidopeco


Oct 22, 2004, 4:41 PM
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Re: Adjustable daisy chain with cordelette ... [In reply to]
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I second Richardol on the clove hitch with your rope.

When i'm leading, and if at the end of the pitch my anchor is going to be 3 or 4 pieces in the same crack, i'll just clove hitch my rope to all of the pieces, equalize, and then I'm ready to go in much less time then if i were to make a cordalette. I couldn't lead the next pitch, true, but swapping leads is fine with me.

Using clove hitches makes everything simpler, and you need less gear, nuff said.


ricardol


Oct 22, 2004, 4:52 PM
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In reply to:
I second Richardol on the clove hitch with your rope.

When i'm leading, and if at the end of the pitch my anchor is going to be 3 or 4 pieces in the same crack, i'll just clove hitch my rope to all of the pieces, equalize, and then I'm ready to go in much less time then if i were to make a cordalette. I couldn't lead the next pitch, true, but swapping leads is fine with me.

Using clove hitches makes everything simpler, and you need less gear, nuff said.


even if you use a cordalette to make your anchor .. using the climbing rope to attach yourself to the anchor is way simple .. (thats what i use) ..

-- ricardo


david.yount
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Oct 22, 2004, 9:31 PM
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Very challenging to understand your rigging. But excellent effort to get your plans understood.

replace "cordelette" with "accessory cord"

Given the fact that you are choosing to use a Daisy Chain, then I would complement you heartily on a nice design! Super cheap and totally kewl that you developed this yourself. Bravo! It's safe, solid.

My only critical idea is that adjustment is not nearly as easy and quick as a true Daisy Chain. But I'll admit that 75% of the time I clip into the same pocket on my Daisy.

Another great lacking is absence of pockets. If you don't want pockets then your design is superior. But I find I use the Daisy pockets frequently.

Of course you can choose to use the rope to secure yourself with, but that was not your question.

david yount.


the_pirate


Oct 22, 2004, 10:35 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I second Richardol on the clove hitch with your rope.

When i'm leading, and if at the end of the pitch my anchor is going to be 3 or 4 pieces in the same crack, i'll just clove hitch my rope to all of the pieces, equalize, and then I'm ready to go in much less time then if i were to make a cordalette. I couldn't lead the next pitch, true, but swapping leads is fine with me.

Using clove hitches makes everything simpler, and you need less gear, nuff said.


even if you use a cordalette to make your anchor .. using the climbing rope to attach yourself to the anchor is way simple .. (thats what i use) ..

-- ricardo
If you clove hitch to the PP of the cordalette, keeping the lead is simple. The second arrives at the belay, clips his locker to the PP, clove hitches to this (backed up with an 8 on the most direct piece), the leader unclips his locker and gets climbing.


slobmonster


Oct 24, 2004, 12:42 PM
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Re: Adjustable daisy chain with cordelette ... [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Bravo! It's safe, solid.
But it's thoroughly unnecessary, overcomplicated, and superfluous. Use your daisy for full-on aiding; there's little reason to have one with you climbing a free route.


david.yount
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Oct 24, 2004, 4:02 PM
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In reply to:
there's little reason to have [a daisy chain] with you climbing a free route.
There may be little reason for you, slobmonster, but for other lead climbers they may have a reason. They may have several reasons. And those climbers that choose to use a Daisy Chain (or a home made equivalent) while free climbing may enjoy many luxurious benefits. I know I do.

But I'm not attempting to persuade anybody to begin using a Daisy Chain, I'm only sharing my experience and the experience of many, that Daisys are useful while free climbing and that making your own on the cheap is a fine idea.

david yount.


kachoong


Oct 24, 2004, 4:38 PM
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Another great lacking is absence of pockets. If you don't want pockets then your design is superior. But I find I use the Daisy pockets frequently.
....what about the use of an alpine butterfly as a 'pocket'?


waltereo


Oct 24, 2004, 5:10 PM
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What is an alpin pocket ? is it a knot ?


kachoong


Oct 24, 2004, 5:52 PM
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What is an alpin pocket ? is it a knot ?
....it's a knot which can be tied if the rope/cord is to be under load. It'll just be a useful loop to clip to in this above setup..... however I would still clip the seconder and other gear to another sling/cordalette on the anchors seperately.... personally I never use a daisy chain at the belay.... just preference....


david.yount
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Oct 24, 2004, 7:17 PM
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Slight confusion of terms.

Daisy Chains have pockets.

Alpine Butterfuly is a knot.

To my knowledge, there is no Alpine Pocket, nor Alpin Pocket [sic].

Daisy Chains that are commercially sewn commonly have a dozen pockets, more or less. I find these pockets useful in a wide variety of ways.

An Alpine Butterfuly is a beautiful knot, even more beautiful than it's utility, though of knots it's one of the highest in utility. Yes, you could fasion a few alpine butterflies in the 8mm accessory cord between the clove hitch and the second end (which is affixed to the harness). This would require significant length of 8mm cord, such that if you wanted this knot capability you would likely begin with a longer piece of 8mm cord.

david yount.


Partner euroford


Oct 24, 2004, 8:15 PM
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i didn't even remotly get what the orginial post was trying to get at, thus the rest of the posts are kinda fuzzy.

but if this is some kinda way to do something harder than just clove hitching into the anchor with the rope, i don't know why you would bother.


tradmanclimbs


Oct 24, 2004, 8:19 PM
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I find that a short 24" daisy is verry usefull when free climbing. i would not want a full length one. i use my short daisy for quick clip into rap stations and top anchors. I usualy use it full length so ripping a pocket is not an issue. On a 2 bolt anchor I clip the Daisy (i prefer to call it a teather in these types of arguments as i do not use the pockets to adjust length) to one bolt which gets me instantly safe with one motion and one hand. I clove hitch my lead rope to the second bolt. Belay establisned in less than 90 seconds and thats with pulling up the extra rope
8^) Anyone who tells you that they can clip in with a clove hitch that fast and easy while pumped and hanging on desperatly with one hand is full of poo 8^) Its a real big pluss when clipping fixed threads or bundles of tat at the top of ice climbs. Totaly spent, shakeing like a dog crapping razorblades, cheap gloves soaked to the bone and starting to freeze solid, cant feel your hands to the point you only know they are there cause you can see them. you hook the tree with one tool and clip that bundle of tat with your teather. Piece of cake 8^) Don't forget to hug and kiss the tree a few times :P


Partner tattooed_climber


Oct 24, 2004, 8:28 PM
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i read this a while back...but tonight, due to boredom i got out two ovals and a cordelette and made this 'adjustable daisy' (which when i first read the post it DID make sense)....

seems fine and cool to me.....my only problem is that you say to use a double fishermans knot as a back up

...personal, that pisses me off...haveing to be moving that damn fishersman knot...

NOW...i say scape the idea of a doublefishermans knot....BUT, you DO need a back up...so......heres what you do

take your cordelettle, tie two double fig-8s in each end....one end will be cliped to your harness...the other cliped to ancors or whatever....

NOW, somewhere in the middle make a clove hitch and put the clove hitch around the biner you have cliped to your harness...

similiar idea....

NOW, the problem with this whole idea is that if you have the length of the daisy SHORT that you will then have this loop hanging from you that should get caught on rocks or around your legs......

i will still prefer my normal daisy (for trad at least)....but a good trick to know....thanks for sharing your thoughts Waltereo...


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