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antigrav
Oct 27, 2004, 6:39 PM
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Good to see the thread is alive! I just got home from the gym, where I, I'm sorry to say, just got spanked, really bare-ass-style, on a 5.10a, on top rope... Only a small set of crimpy blue plastic knobs gorilla-spaced on an overhanging slick plastick wall-thingy... If ever there was a bag of sand, this was it. My third try brought me the highest on this, after that it all went downhill, literally and figuratively. I was simply worn out.
But man was it fun!
:D 8^)
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get_ur_rox_off
Oct 27, 2004, 6:45 PM
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Jebel_andi:
I have never climbed Allez Up, but my g/f has. I'll ask her opinion. As for Horizon Roc and Vertical (two gyms I have climbed in Montreal), they're both consistently more difficult than other gyms outside of Quebec. Same experience as you, I was getting my a$$ kicked by grades I normally warm up on.
Like others have said, numbers don't really matter. Use this experience to make yourself a better climber!
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juststrange
Oct 27, 2004, 7:15 PM
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See my local gym has it's routes set by Ben Montgomery (friend of Jason Kehl and a killer climber as well), and Matt Bosley. Charolette Jouliette works behind the counter. Its a good place to be, largest gym on the east coast. Someone actually asked Ben what was up with his grades and he said that he tends to grade them lower than they are so that when you do go outside you have a more positive experience. I can also attest to the fact that climbing style has a lot to do with it. A 5.10d face climb can throw me while a 5.11 b/c inside corner is a cake-walk. Just my 2 noob cents.......
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philc
Oct 27, 2004, 7:18 PM
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To Jebel.
I climb very often at Allez Up (check my profile) and since I started a year ago I knew the grades were sandbagged but I didn't know by how much. Recently they re-graded the routes on the main lead wall to be more accurate. The 5.9s on the lead wall turned into 5.10d, 5.7 -> 5.9, and the 5.10c/ds turned into 5.12c/d. So they seem to be 2 grades lower than they should be.
That should give you an idea of the actual grades for the rest of the gym. :)
woohoo.. 1st post finally.
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gritgirl
Oct 27, 2004, 7:24 PM
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I usually climb outside but since the weather has turned I've had to rethink my options. I boulder/climb at an old style wall (circa 1985) with real rock and pebbles cemented into the walls. They have a few graded problems and climbs with the newer plastic holds and they are ridiculously easy. I asked a guy who was a longtime regular what was up with the huge smooth holds since nearly everything in the local area is gritstone and if you trained on these you would be in for a big surprise if you ever went outside. He said that they put them in because the beginners found the other stuff too hard. Now I consider myself a beginner (only been climbing for roughly 6 months) but I'm dedicated and even though there are no gradings on the real rock, I refuse to use any of the plastic holds as I want to improve and don't want to think that I'm getting good with this artificial stuff and then get really damn disappointed when I can't do a damn thing outside. So I guess what I'm saying is that maybe some gyms overate the grades because they want to appeal to every climber, new or old (and of course the money is always nice). Maybe though they could just try a little harder to be more realistic. They might find that new climbers like me actually want to challenge themselves and would strive to send the harder problems after practice instead of expecting to be a great climber from day one .
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axewielder
Oct 27, 2004, 7:28 PM
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Yeah... a lot depends on the route setter...in the past one guy set a lot of routes, including a 13a (more like 11) that I flashed, and a bunch of other routes that were easy, positive crimp hauls.
However, some setters we've had are much different; Tim Kemple set a bunch of problems for a while that kept on getting harder and harder, until I believe he was sort of "fired".
So, gym owners (who have control of the setters) might have something against honestly rated or overgraded routes just because they leave some customers feeling put down.
Still, there's a new guy who's set a bunch of new, pretty honestly rated stuff, including a ridiculous 13 that is far, far away from flashable.
I hope the gym owner realizes that some of his customers find route setters like this to be a more valuable asset.
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cgranite
Oct 27, 2004, 8:12 PM
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Either the route setters are big ego gym rates or their trying to balance the indoor out door problem, and doing a bad job.
Good setters that are Outdoor climbers understand that every hold in the gym is a positive one simply because you add it to the surface of the wall.
So the setter will intentionally sandbag to anticipate the difference, but it usually seems overboard.
You must except that indoor and outdoor are two different animals. It will always be that way.
But like you said, numbers don't matter...especially in a Gym. :wink:
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anothertucsonclimber
Oct 27, 2004, 8:20 PM
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At the local gym here in town the route setters are very experienced n outdoor climbing. Their routes in the gym are not "crux" routes. Where as the whole climb might be 5.9 with a 5.11 crux move. They set them to be sustained the entire length of the route. ( a 5.10, is 5.10 from bottom to top. ) IMHO this is much more beneficial for getting stronger.....bad for egos if you're a grade chaser!!!!
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crazygirl
Oct 27, 2004, 8:58 PM
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it starts with one innocent overrated problem. the route setter labels a problem v6. a guy sends it and thinks he is a v6 climber. next time, the route setter asks the guy: what does this problem feel like? guy sais v6, because he can send it. and it goes on and on like a snowball.
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climb_plastic
Nov 16, 2004, 1:28 AM
Post #35 of 43
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Who cares if they overrate their climbs? I've heard it many times....it's just gym training and it doesn't count. If you think your gym's 5.10s are too easy then climb their 5.11s....if that's too easy then climb their 5.12s, etc. until you find the climb rating that is best for you in that gym. This usually works until you get good enough to climb everything in the gym. If you go to different crags you will also notice that you have to adjust your ratings at each crag too, ie. if you're used to climbing 5.10 at pinnacles it's not the same as 5.10 at JT....so maybe pinnacles overrates their climbs too....or maybe JT sandbags.....it's all subjective.
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katanaman
Nov 17, 2004, 3:17 PM
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gym problems seem to be rated easier where i go too. ive seen many supposed "V7" then struggle the v5 outdoors, i think it comes down to learning to work the rock outdoors, indoors theres only so many sequences you can do to get past a certain point....outdoors on one problem alone you could go climbing with your friends and see it done twenty different ways...usually someone finds a rock you didnt even see, finding these tiny crimps and stuff make the world of diff
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wingnut
Dec 14, 2004, 3:02 PM
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In reply to: Ever hear of vanity sizing in clothing? Rob
Yep.
________________
I refuse to accept your reality and substitute my own.
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claramie
Dec 14, 2004, 3:24 PM
Post #38 of 43
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The gyms that I've climbed at often don't designate bouldering problems with the V Scale, they use some other letter to avoid that very issue. I think it's a good idea.
Although we want to push ourselves, measure ourselves, and try to improve. The most important thing is to just enjoy it!
CL
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decorahhughes
Dec 14, 2004, 3:34 PM
Post #39 of 43
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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The place I climb at (local College climbing wall), we don't bother with numbers. We just rate them based on who set the routes up and most of us know our skills in regards to one another.
I can climb most anything that Sarah or Tracy or Gabe sets up, but I barely can touch things that Seth or Joe or Aaron throw onto the wall. Not that I don't try of course. I need the practice in faling.
:D
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chimp-chimp
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Dec 14, 2004, 4:26 PM
Post #40 of 43
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Sometimes route setters in a hurry to throw up problems/routes won't even bother climbing them. So the rating becomes, uh, subjective. Not that I know any that do that...
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ecocliffchick
Dec 21, 2004, 3:58 PM
Post #41 of 43
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Having read through the posts, it seems there is a Canadian trend to grade routes in the gym about two number grades lower than their actual difficulty. This holds true at my gym where there has never been a route graded harder than 5.12, and the best climbers still flail on the 5.10+'s.
You have to watch out for the Guelph Grotto 5.10+'s, they are like sandtraps.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 21, 2004, 4:18 PM
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I would say that most gyms do not do this on purpose. The main objective of a gym is to keep them consistent within a gym. Now I don't think anyone should be comparing outside ratings to indoors. THey are completely different animals, but we do try to get close. The problem is that when you climb mainly at one gym, you get a feel for how hard the ratings are and you get sucked in to keeping them consistent. When I put up a route, I get a few people to confirm it, then the grade goes up. Now, these people are also climbing at this gym, so it's like an endless cycle. But, what you have to realize is that, even outdoors, ratings will not be the same from area to area. There are areas that are known to be soft and areas that are known to be stiffer.
I know that some people exclusively climb in a gym, and that's all right, but you have to realize that they were designed for one purpose, to train for outside. So, don't try and transfer your gym climbing skills outside until you have a greater awareness of the difference between the two.
Josh
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mworking
Dec 21, 2004, 5:09 PM
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Registered: May 26, 2004
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The best climbers in the world used to figured that if 5.10 was the hardest anyone in the world could climb, then knowing that they were not the best the hardest grade they would assign was 5.9. Now the world is filled with climbers who just know they could climb 5.15 if only their had a route that hard.
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