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coldclimb
Nov 1, 2004, 7:36 PM
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I agree. :(
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caughtinside
Nov 1, 2004, 7:37 PM
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And yet you climbed... and clipped...
Boo hoo.
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ema
Nov 1, 2004, 7:45 PM
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so dont use the hangers
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usmc_2tothetop
Nov 1, 2004, 7:50 PM
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Jesus..........I wonder if they lead it on trad gear to drill and place bolts.
"now that I have set up this 3 point anchor I can drill away...boy this gear placement sure is going to make bolting easy"
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slavetogravity
Nov 1, 2004, 7:52 PM
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In reply to: so dont use the hangers
Yes, god forbid the sport of climbing be something that pushes your physical and mental limits. :roll:
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maculated
Nov 1, 2004, 7:53 PM
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Is this the 10c on what i think is the Gorgeous Towers?
I hate to tell you this, kids, but bringing down a trad rack for one route - I dunno. Ethics are nice and all, but it IS a sport area. I get made fun of everytime I go because I bring my huge pack and people think I have the rack in there.
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trenchdigger
Nov 1, 2004, 8:25 PM
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Just to note...
The Owens River Gorge is not really in the Sierra. Near the Eastern Sierra, yes, but not a part of it.
I don't know this specific route, but gorge rock is volcanic in nature and not very gear-friendly. See the last post in this thread for commentary on the quality of possible placements on this specific route: http://rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=56445 Did you climb the route? Can you attest to the fact that safe gear placements are present?
I don't like seeing bolts next to a crack any more than the next trad climber. However, I'd hesitate to react in disgust without first-hand knowledge of the route and some commentary from the developer.
~Adam~
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pbjosh
Nov 1, 2004, 8:25 PM
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That's not the only bolted crack in Owens, and it doens't look like the one on Gorgeous Towers to me.
If you don't want to bring down a rack then maybe you don't need to climb it, eh? Or does everything have to be super easy and convenient.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for sport climbing, but the bolted cracks at Owens are retarded and wrong.
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salathiel
Nov 1, 2004, 8:27 PM
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I have read that the cracks in ORG are bolted due somewhat to the rather fragile nature of the rock. Looks like a great climb though, either way.
Just my 10kbs
Blur
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stevep
Nov 1, 2004, 8:29 PM
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Owens is a sport area, and only loosely qualifies as "the Sierras". And while it looks better now that water has been running again for some years, it's hardly a pristine wilderness.
If you don't like 'em, don't use 'em, but they're probably within the ethic of that area.
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maculated
Nov 1, 2004, 8:32 PM
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I like that everyone else noted the "Sierra" misnomer. I thought if I pointed it out, I would just look silly.
And I've climbed bolted cracks in ORG. Boo hoo hoo. I've climbed non-bolted cracks, too. I agree that it is hardly a pristine wilderness and the ethics there are a little different than its topside neighbors.
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alpnclmbr1
Nov 1, 2004, 8:34 PM
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I like to think of myself as a staunch traditionalist.
I have led a number of the crack lines in the gorge with gear.
In general, the gear in the gorge tends to be horrible. The rock is about 1/10 the density of granite. I would never bring a rack into the gorge again. That is pretty much the community concensus, thus the bolted cracks.
As far as gear routes go. Don't bother. Bolted granite cracks is another matter.
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usmc_2tothetop
Nov 1, 2004, 8:36 PM
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I stand partially corrected. Trenchdigger has a point.
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asandh
Nov 1, 2004, 8:41 PM
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:)
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maculated
Nov 1, 2004, 8:42 PM
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Dude, back in the day, ORG was nothing but a "trundling" area.
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yosemite
Nov 1, 2004, 8:46 PM
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Blasphemy
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roughster
Nov 1, 2004, 8:51 PM
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In reply to: A major part of this agrument is the following: Why should a handful of guys with drills get to declare an area a "SPORT" area?
The same could be said about many a trad area. Why do a handful of people get to declare an area a "TRAD" area? Say Paradise Forks? Where aretes w/o pro that get bolted get chopped?
You guys want your "special" places, we want ours 8^)
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asandh
Nov 1, 2004, 8:53 PM
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:?
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asandh
Nov 1, 2004, 8:57 PM
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:roll:
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caughtinside
Nov 1, 2004, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: To Maculated: Listen little missy, you need to decide just how old you wanna be. First you call us all "kids" then you try sound like a kid yourself with "dude". I think my dog is older than you, so I'll try to let your vascillation slide till you work it out.
Hahahahaha :lol:
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dingus
Nov 1, 2004, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: I like that everyone else noted the "Sierra" misnomer. I thought if I pointed it out, I would just look silly.
OK then Silly.
DMT
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roughster
Nov 1, 2004, 9:02 PM
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In reply to: NOT where I'm coming from. My argument is that trad and sport "can" exist side by side if climbers make the effort. I put in tons of bolts but like trad too. Things don't need to be "either - or". I just have no sympathy for LAZY climbers who don't want to put that extra 8-10 lbs in their pack.
Ok then where is the:
"*sigh* Why does this have to happen in the Colorado Plateau"
I was climbing out at Paradise Forks the other day and noticed this perfect clean and crackless arete that had bolt studs that had obviously been chopped. Whats up with that?"
Post?
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dingus
Nov 1, 2004, 9:11 PM
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A 'handful' of climbers getting to dictate the climbing style for a whole area?
At OWENS GORGE? Have you ever climbed there?
LOL.
That's pretty funny. You do know that Owens is one of the most popular climbing DESTINATIONS in the entire state, don't you?
Yes, a handful of climbers all a dictating. A handful, that is, for god herself, lol.
DMT
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mtnjohn
Nov 1, 2004, 9:15 PM
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It's just wrong.
If you start a sentance "Ethics are are fine but..."
then you know you're on the wrong track.
Remeber, even Jeffery Dahmer rationalized his behavior.
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