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danokow
Nov 3, 2004, 3:03 PM
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I have to do a project for my photography class and i would like to know what equipment i need to be a professional outdoor photographer (specificly climbing). I would like to know what i need both in the darkroom and in the field. I have an unlimited budget. Thank you.
-Dan
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alienathome
Nov 3, 2004, 3:25 PM
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You should check out Jimmy Chin's website. (I think that it is jimmychin.com) You can also find out about him from the North Face website. He is one of the top climber/photographers in the world. There is also a lot of information about adventure photography on the National Geographic website.
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climbinplaid
Nov 3, 2004, 4:04 PM
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i have tryed a little to take climbing shots, it seemed to be tricky to get good results. how long have you been photographing for?
good luck
matt
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jammer
Nov 3, 2004, 4:10 PM
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Think Digital.
Or ...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=45
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bauerbrian
Nov 3, 2004, 4:52 PM
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danokow,
How about posting some photos on this website.
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capcom1701
Nov 3, 2004, 5:26 PM
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You'd want a 35mm SLR camera (or digital SLR), a long telephoto lens, a wide angle lens, a tripod, some sort of way to attach the camera to your harness so you couldn't drop it, film or scandisks. If you go film you need a darkroom, with an enlarger, four tubs for chemistry, developer, stop, possibly hca, and fixer. you'd also need a wash bath, an air filtration system, safelights, possibly a dehumidifier, a place to dry prints either on wire beds or by hanging, naturally you'd also need paper, and a development easel, an easel with a glass top for contact sheets, and a set of contrast filters, canned air or an anti-stat cloth. You would also need a film developing canister. If you go digital, you need a computer (I'd go with a mac, because you're doing something a bit more processor intensive) photoshop (which is optimized for Apple's processors) a good 6 ink printer, and paper. Oh yeah, since you want to be a pro, only buy Canon or Nikon camera's and lenses.
You'll want to look at canon's website, nikon's site, ilford, kodak, and maybe B and H photo video, or Adorama for pricing. head to google my friend.
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trenchdigger
Nov 3, 2004, 5:31 PM
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On top of my list would be some long, fast Canon L-series lenses. Of course at the other end of the spectrum, a good super-wide will get the most out of bouldering shots and wonderfully exaggerates the exposure of a climb. Couple those with either a high end digital body like the Canon Eos 1DS or better yet, a Canon Eos series 35mm body loaded with Provia slide film. With the digital, it wouldn't hurt to throw in a 4Gb microdrive, and with the 35mm, a high end film scanner. Ah, if only I had $20,000 to spend on some nice new toys...
~Adam~
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philbox
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Nov 3, 2004, 10:04 PM
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philbox moved this thread from General to Climbing Photography.
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danokow
Nov 3, 2004, 10:28 PM
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Thanks guys. A lot of good ideas so far. I really appreciate it.
-Dan
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trad_mike
Nov 3, 2004, 10:36 PM
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In reply to: Think Digital. Or ... http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=45
Alot of magazines require a minumum 33MB file (11 megapixels). If you want to shoot digital professionally, you're kind of limited to the $8000, 11 megapixel Canon.
Edited: That number is for full page photos. Smaller photos can be done with less camera.
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climbsomething
Nov 3, 2004, 10:43 PM
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Is this a hypothetical unlimited budget? Like a wishlist?
But what you REALLY need can't be bought. Skill, persistance, skill, and skill. Climbing photography is not easy.
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sandbag
Nov 3, 2004, 11:06 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Think Digital. Or ... http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=45 Alot of magazines require a minumum 33MB file (11 megapixels). If you want to shoot digital professionally, you're kind of limited to the $8000, 11 megapixel Canon.
bullcrap
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temporary-wintertime
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Nov 3, 2004, 11:13 PM
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and a lot of magazines are also still hesitant to publish a digital photo over a good slide- a lot of people will disagree with me, but i dont think digital is anywhere near taking over (in terms of popularity it is, but not quality). its a lot more convenient, especially for travelling! but if you want to be professional, an intimate knowledge of the traditional camera will, IMHO, get you better and more consistent results.
for a body i would recomend nikon F100s and F5's (tending towards the 100 as i havent used the 5 for climbing but they seem like they would be quite awkward on a cliff), but lenses is where the big bucks will come in. zooms are, again, convenient, and for most people a good zoom wqill do the trick, but you will have that much better quality (sharper, and more control esp. in low light) if you fork out for a range of good fixed lenses- the cost will stop most in their tracks, but on an unlimited bedget go wild! you wanna be creative then super wides is a good place to start- 8mm is nice to have, 14mm, 17, 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, 80, 120, 210, 400. obviously you dont need all of those and may choose others as well- id put the effort into a superwide (eg. 14-17) and probably 2 options for other wides (say a 20 and a 24)- they are generally what you'll use on a cliff. niikor lenses are a damn good bet if you've got the nikon body.
ok so you've got a body and a range of lenses- need a good carrying system- theres soooo many options figure out what works best for you. a toploading rig like the lowepro loploaders is a good place to starts, and possibly want to look at one of the modular harnesses for easy access while scrabmling/jumaring around. also a pack that holds your rigging gear and the toploader plus lots more camera stuff so you can mixnmatch between the pack and your modular
in terms of darkroom- ive spent a lot of time in one and strongly recommend that;
a) you learn how to use one, an understanding of the process is IMO imporatant for a photog to understand whether they use one or not. also if you are going for a special effect or somehting in a pic then knowing how you can achieve this in the darkroom as well sa with a camera can help
b) onceyou've learnt your way around a darkroom, store that knowledge and get the hell outto there!! you should get it done by a lab- its faster cheaper and more reliable. you should put a lot of effort into finding alab you're VERY happy with and estbalishing good relations with them.
actually most of this is babbling crap so please just ignore it- and for god sake dont look at my photos it will ruin any credibility i previously had in this thread
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firephoto91
Nov 4, 2004, 1:21 PM
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HI, I am new to climbing but I have been working as a pro photographer. I have worked as a freelance photographer for various newspapers from cali to philly and now I am a staff photographer in Arkansas. The only advice I can give here would be to say what kind of climber are you? If you are really good I would use a Nikon digital SLR or Canon personal preference there. If you aren't really good then go with a cheapo digital from Wal-Mart. That will be safer and cheaper if you drop it if you do decide to get a Nikon or Canon I would definatly get insurance just in case. Don't listen to the people who are saying you need an 11 mega pixel camera for magazines that is crap there are photographer working for magazines using NikonD1 or Canon Mark 1. I would say if you want to publish your photographs don't go less than 5 megapixels though. If you go the film route it will definatly work but it is much MORE work. That is the only difference these days.
Lenses thats easy A fast tele photo 70mm to 300mm a 28mm to 80mm and a wide angle 18 or 24. Thats all I can say so far climbing wise I don't know jack.
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matttracyg
Nov 4, 2004, 3:01 PM
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In reply to: Is this a hypothetical unlimited budget? Like a wishlist? But what you REALLY need can't be bought. Skill, persistance, skill, and skill. Climbing photography is not easy.
No offense intended, but I have to agree with climbsomething. An unlimited budget and a desire to be a professional climbing photographer do not spell success.
A friend of mine and I always laugh about when someone who knows nothing about photography looks at a good photo we've taken and says "That's a great picture, you must have a really nice camera." And we'd like to think that the photographer had a lot to do with it.
You're going to need to dedicate lots of time to studying other's images from everywhere. And then you're going to have to take lots of trips and burn lots of rolls of film. It's not easy!
The same goes for film. Everyone says that Fuji Velvia 50 is the best film. So then one should only buy that! Not quite. Try hand holding a camera with that film in it when you have lower light and you're using a long lens. Impossible. For every good image you see somewhere, there were hundreds of images taken that were worthless.
Good luck. And definitely post your images on this website.
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trenchdigger
Nov 4, 2004, 3:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Is this a hypothetical unlimited budget? Like a wishlist? But what you REALLY need can't be bought. Skill, persistance, skill, and skill. Climbing photography is not easy. No offense intended, but I have to agree with climbsomething. An unlimited budget and a desire to be a professional climbing photographer do not spell success. A friend of mine and I always laugh about when someone who knows nothing about photography looks at a good photo we've taken and says "That's a great picture, you must have a really nice camera." And we'd like to think that the photographer had a lot to do with it. You're going to need to dedicate lots of time to studying other's images from everywhere. And then you're going to have to take lots of trips and burn lots of rolls of film. It's not easy! The same goes for film. Everyone says that Fuji Velvia 50 is the best film. So then one should only buy that! Not quite. Try hand holding a camera with that film in it when you have lower light and you're using a long lens. Impossible. For every good image you see somewhere, there were hundreds of images taken that were worthless. Good luck. And definitely post your images on this website.
Jeez, would you guys just go read the original post? The kid's assignment was to find out what type of gear a Pro Photographer for a climbing magazine might want/need to do his job. He's not actually buying this stuff. Just like with climbing, with professional climbing photography, it helps to use the right tool for the job. In your opinion, what are those tools?
~Adam~
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 4, 2004, 3:43 PM
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Whats the best way to make a fortune in photography? Start with one twisted: Haveing an unlimited budget would certainaly take a bunch of the stress out. If you are serious about being a pro don't waste time with film. Yes, some pros still use film and for landscape and nature stuff that may hold for a few more years. the fact is though that the industry is rapidly going in the digital direction and if you start out now with a full set of film cameras and and concentrate on learning film, screwing arround in the darkroom etc. You WILL be left in the dust :roll: Get a few top end cannon bodies and the best glass you can get your hands on, a G5 power book and a class in photoshop.
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overlord
Nov 4, 2004, 4:11 PM
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a go0d SLR (either film or digital, wichever you prefer. id still choose film :wink: ).
then you need a good wide angle zoom lens (from 28 to 50 or even less).
and a good telephoto lens or two (300-800mm). those are not neccesary but come handy when taking pics of ppl on the north face from camp4 (you can also use a telescope, theres even a pic using this technique somewhere).
then you need some rigging stuff that will enable you to hang above/to the side of the climber (butt shots usually suck), some stilts/ladders to push away from the wall for better angles, some filters etc.
oh, and you also need to read a good book or two on photography and burn a serious amount of film to ger the desired results. good photographers usually get just one or two good photos per roll of film.
if you want to go digital, get the newest, baddest digital SLR you can find (i think the new Nikon is out by now, as should be cannon eos 1d markII).
and after you decide you dont want to do it anymore, send the equipment to me. PM me if you want my adress.
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 4, 2004, 6:54 PM
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Sorry overloard but that whole thing about good photographers only getting one or 2 Good/ sellable images per 36 frames is total bullcrap. Amatures and wannbees have a piss poor ratio of shots sprayed vs good shots. Real pros run upwards of 90% keepers. I run into this problem constantly when I hire (supposedly pro :roll:) shooters to work events with me. they shoot a ton of crap that I am embaresed to even show :evil: yes you do need to shoot a lot of frames to get good which is all the more reason to go digital. Notice the origional post was "what do you need to be a pro" Not how do i become a wanker. In this day and age that means digital. Starting from square one with film today will garuentee that in 2 years you will be so far behind the eight ball that it will be a real daunting task to catch up. I am actualy a pro photographer ( unlike most of the guys preaching for film). I shot film for 16 years and only switched to digital in august of 2003. I am now over a year later just starting to realy catch up with the competition. I still have a long way to go. One problem is that I am so busy working (and wanking here on the site) that I have not had time to take classes on photoshop. Save yourself the hassel and wasted time and money of learning a dinasoar.
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thegreytradster
Nov 5, 2004, 12:23 AM
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In reply to: Real pros run upwards of 90% keepers. Notice the origional post was "what do you need to be a pro" Not how do i become a wanker. In this day and age that means digital. . Save yourself the hassel and wasted time and money of learning a dinasoar.
I'd agree! the only place left for film any more is large format, (4X5 or larger) and that will end as soon as someone comes up with a hi res digital you can bend or software that provides the equivelent functions of tilts and swings. Even a 2meg camera can, used intelligently produce results almost indistinguishable from 35mm.
Large format is a useful learning tool though to teach you how to come up with "90% keepers". When it's 15lb of gear and 5$ a sheet you need to deal with, you either soon give up or learn how to get it right the first time.
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climbsomething
Nov 5, 2004, 12:35 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Is this a hypothetical unlimited budget? Like a wishlist? But what you REALLY need can't be bought. Skill, persistance, skill, and skill. Climbing photography is not easy. No offense intended, but I have to agree with climbsomething. An unlimited budget and a desire to be a professional climbing photographer do not spell success. A friend of mine and I always laugh about when someone who knows nothing about photography looks at a good photo we've taken and says "That's a great picture, you must have a really nice camera." And we'd like to think that the photographer had a lot to do with it. You're going to need to dedicate lots of time to studying other's images from everywhere. And then you're going to have to take lots of trips and burn lots of rolls of film. It's not easy! The same goes for film. Everyone says that Fuji Velvia 50 is the best film. So then one should only buy that! Not quite. Try hand holding a camera with that film in it when you have lower light and you're using a long lens. Impossible. For every good image you see somewhere, there were hundreds of images taken that were worthless. Good luck. And definitely post your images on this website. Jeez, would you guys just go read the original post? The kid's assignment was to find out what type of gear a Pro Photographer for a climbing magazine might want/need to do his job. He's not actually buying this stuff. Just like with climbing, with professional climbing photography, it helps to use the right tool for the job. In your opinion, what are those tools? ~Adam~ |
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coldclimb
Nov 5, 2004, 12:42 AM
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I bought my camera, a mid-quality digital, in January, and I've taken 3056 pictures with it since then. I worked out the cost last night to be roughly sixteen cents per picture, and it only gets cheaper as time goes on. ;)
Of those 3056 pictures, I only put 54 of them on my website as something worth putting on display. :?
I wish I could have afforded a really nice digital SLR though. Now when I do manage to get one I'll have to learn everything all over again. :(
To answer the original post, yes you do need experience, patience, and therefore skill above all else, but here's what I would want:
1: A very awesome digital SLR and an equally awesome case and insurance policy.
2: Rigging gear, such as a trad rack, ascenders, grigri, ropes, possibly aiders, and a wide vareity of other climbing gear.
3: Dozens of climbing partners, preferably very skilled, since the strength of the climber often influences people. I say dozens so that you would never have to sit around waiting for someone to go climb with you, but rather would almost always have a team to head out with.
4: A photogenic crag. Sure, you can always get good pictures anywhere, but Yosemite, Joshua Tree, etc. just have an awesome look to them that definitely beats those side-of-the-highway chosspiles that most climbers frequent solely because they are ten minutes from home (Most of you Alaskans know what I'm talking about. :twisted: ).
Feel free to add to this list. ;) This is just what I myself wish for.
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dsafanda
Nov 5, 2004, 1:05 AM
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In reply to: Real pros run upwards of 90% keepers. I run into this problem constantly when I hire (supposedly pro :roll:) shooters to work events with me.
Apples and Oranges.
Event photography is a totally different ball game. If you're hired to shoot events(weddings, speaking engagements, apprearances, etc.) I would agree with you that 90% of your shots shoud be of a quality that can be used by the client. However, I think that most people in this thread are talking about gettting that one shot that might deserve a spot on the cover of a magazine, in a coffee table book or a single page advertisement. In that case you could easily burn through a lot of film or flash memory before getting the shot that might attract attention.
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 5, 2004, 2:05 AM
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Wrong again Dsfanda. I shoot sports NOT weddings. 99 precent horse shows in the summer and sking, snowboarding in the winter. granted I am not usualy doing magazine work but the guys that I have worked with that do (tim zimmerman/snowboard mag, Bob Perry/Time&national Geographic) Etc. get a whole lot more than 1 or 2 shots per 36. If the light is good and the subject matter is good, you end up haveing a hell of a time editing because all the shots look pretty darn good. Editiors usualy dont like tripple submissions so you try to send them the best of the best. Selling photos (magazine work included) is a lot more about being a good buisness person and developing the right relationships than it is about being a great shooter. there are a whole lot of good shooters out there and some of them sell a whole lot more pictures than others, A perfect example of how consistant real pros are is the nature guy that used to teach the Nikon school. forget his name but he lives in michigan. He went out in the woods near his home for I belive 365 days and took just one frame a day. It was chrome so he did not get to preview or check his work untill the end of each month. His editor LOVED every last shot and presto!! they made a $75.00 coffe table book. A combinatin of consistant (not nessicairly great) shooting and Good connections/buisness sense. Since april of this year I have put 16,492 photos into my hard drive. At .50c a frame which is were I estimate chrome with custom processing, thats over 8 grand in film/processing. Its a No brainer to use digital. I will conced that the truely great shots are few and far between but I will stand by my statement that you had better be shooting better than 90% GOOD shots if you want to call yourself a pro. If you Get an assignment you need to come back with a bunch of great stuff that blows the editiors away and that is NOT gonna happen if you can only salvage one shot per roll :roll:
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alpiner
Nov 5, 2004, 2:21 AM
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There's only one thing you need to be a pro climbing photographer: a high tolerance for Top Ramen. The equipment doesn't matter and even talent is of limited value...even with the best gear and incredible skill, you'll still be eating ramen. Notice how every single "climbing photographer" who has made a name for themself has moved on to things that actually pay the bills. It's a saturated market with countless amateurs and pseudo-pros willing to sell out for dirt cheap because they don't know better or are stupid.
The single most important class a would-be pro can take is on the business of photography. Way more valuable than composition, lighting, darkroom, Photoshop or the usual crap they teach at schools. With all the hideous terms being offered to the gullible these days (including this web site btw), knowing your rights and the way things really work is critical to avoid getting screwed.
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