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juststrange
Nov 13, 2004, 11:01 PM
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So I was at the gym today (I know, I know) and I thought I had clipped my biner to my harness. Picked it up and sure enough, my only pear, my only D-shaped, and my only ATC fell out. There was that shiver inspiring sound as the dropped onto the flat concrete floor. How far is considered too far for a biner to be dropped before retiring? I know the total fall was no more that 3-4 feet, but the gym bag gets thrown around and for all I know my brother or someone has dropped my bag with my stuff in an outside pocket onto the gym floor a couple times. Basically, how far is too far do you think its ok to drop a biner before it better retired. I know Im a noob, and frankly, they were my top rope belay biner, and my anchor biner, niether of which see really serious forces ever, but it just got me thinking..........
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ricardol
Nov 13, 2004, 11:15 PM
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your biner is fine.
-- ricardo
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dutyje
Nov 13, 2004, 11:29 PM
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Listen to Ricardo. One more piece of advice -- edit your post and delete all the text from it before everybody else comes to make fun of you for being a n00b. They can get pretty ruthless on this site, especially in the colder months when they aren't out climbing as much.
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brad84
Nov 14, 2004, 12:12 AM
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send all of your questionable gear to me. i will test it out for...as long as necessary to decide if your gear is safe for climbing on or not. & since im such a nice guy, i wont even charge you for it. 8^)
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asandh
Nov 14, 2004, 12:27 AM
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:wink:
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jt512
Nov 14, 2004, 1:24 AM
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In reply to: this is an issue that has been debated endlessly for many years and the climbing community has not come up with an acceptable answer yet.
Not true. The definitive answer was determined years ago. Dropped gear is fine as long as it has no visible damage and works properly. Why some climbers continue to believe that dropped gear developes invisible microfractures is beyond me.
In reply to: How can this new guy be expected to know the answer.
Well, one way would be to consider that the question has probably been asked and answered 100 times on this website. He then could do a forum search, say for dropped biner, and find explanations from several engineers.
-Jay
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asandh
Nov 14, 2004, 1:54 AM
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:shock:
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tgreene
Nov 14, 2004, 2:15 AM
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I would check it for micro-cracks... Nope, you definately don't want to climb on a biner w/ micro-cracks! 8^)
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curt
Nov 14, 2004, 2:26 AM
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In reply to: jt512 wrote: In reply to: Not true. The definitive answer was determined years ago. Dropped gear is fine as long as it has no visible damage and works properly. This answer, as you describe it, is ONLY definitive in the minds of those who provided that answer. Most climbers do not have xray vision or possess instantaneous metal fatigue analysis capabilities. There is a secret formula that's a function of rate of drop on impact, distance fallen, hardness factor of impacted substance, age of biner, and hours of biner useage. It quite accurately determines whether a dropped biner is safe, but it has yet to be listed on this site, and I'm not about to reveal privileged information. :D
What exactly would "rate of drop" be. Is that how many biners you drop per climbing season? :lol:
Curt
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coldclimb
Nov 14, 2004, 2:48 AM
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If you have any suspicions about your biner, please send it to me. I'll climb on it. :)
It's too far when it shows visible serious damage.
I don't believe in microfractures.
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asandh
Nov 14, 2004, 3:03 AM
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:roll:
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curt
Nov 14, 2004, 3:14 AM
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In reply to: curt wrote: In reply to: What exactly would "rate of drop" be. Is that how many biners you drop per climbing season? In your case, its the number of grades your climbing ability drops as the hot air escapes each time you open your mouth. :wink:
Even so, I can continue to speak freely without worrying about my climbing level coming down to yours. :roll:
Curt
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asandh
Nov 14, 2004, 3:16 AM
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:P
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asandh
Nov 14, 2004, 3:29 AM
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:o
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curt
Nov 14, 2004, 3:30 AM
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In reply to: curt wrote: In reply to: Even so, I can continue to speak freely without worrying about my climbing level coming down to yours. Dreams and fantasies are all that keep some people going, so I'll be kind and make no comment. :wink:
Oh, please comment--or STFU.
Curt
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iwouldratherbeclimbing
Nov 14, 2004, 3:37 AM
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f*ck this website, can nobody answer a perfectly normal question without bickering about peoples knowledge and how difficult they can climb??, if you all so perfect, why spend hours arguing about a "whether dropped biners are ok and how that question has been in the community forever and never been answered" and waste time that could be spent ROCKCLIMBING as the websites name suggests,... or solve the mystery of the universe who knows?
for the love of god this whole thing couldve ended at
"your biner is fine"
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curt
Nov 14, 2004, 3:39 AM
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In reply to: f*ck this website, can nobody answer a perfectly normal question without bickering about peoples knowledge and how difficult they can climb??, if you all so perfect, why spend hours arguing about a "whether dropped biners are ok and how that question has been in the community forever and never been answered" and waste time that could be spent ROCKCLIMBING as the websites name suggests,... or solve the mystery of the universe who knows? for the love of god this whole thing couldve ended at "your biner is fine"
And, that is exactly where it should have ended.
Curt
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dutyje
Nov 14, 2004, 3:42 AM
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Well, great. Juststrange couldn't get back and erase his post in time. Now look what happened. It's obviously a weekend in the cold season. You animals would all have been out climbing and the biner question could have slipped mildly, harmlessly into the background. If you're really that bored, we can resurrect the toy biner thread. Should be good for a week's worth of entertainment.
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petsfed
Nov 14, 2004, 3:54 AM
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Let's explain this in terms everyone can understand.
Aluminum, in the realm of metals, is a lot like silly putty. Steel, by comparison is like glass. That is, silly putty doesn't fracture. Neither does aluminum. It lacks the crystalline structure to do that. Forged steel, can and does fracture, but is considerably stronger than aluminum. Furthermore, BD's study (involving carabiners found exclusively at the base of Yosemite's El Capitan) showed that if a biner had no obvious deformities and good gate action, it would ALWAYS TEST AT OR ABOVE ITS RATED STRENGTH. If the biner had obvious deformities or bad gate action, the carabiners tested at, or slightly below the rated strength.
So to conclude: Just because you believe in something does not make it true. Look at Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or world peace.
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asandh
Nov 14, 2004, 3:58 AM
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:(
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anykineclimb
Nov 14, 2004, 6:45 AM
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Lets just say that NASA used DOZENS of dropped biners on their moon landing set without a single failure...
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fixednut
Nov 14, 2004, 6:52 AM
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At this point, I don't think that there is anything more that I can add to this thread. Good work, gentlemen.
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rainey
Jun 3, 2005, 6:23 PM
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In reply to: That is, silly putty doesn't fracture.
Ever hit silly putty with a hammer? :P
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toejam
Jun 3, 2005, 9:29 PM
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In reply to: Let's explain this in terms everyone can understand. Aluminum, in the realm of metals, is a lot like silly putty. Steel, by comparison is like glass. That is, silly putty doesn't fracture. Neither does aluminum. It lacks the crystalline structure to do that. Forged steel, can and does fracture, but is considerably stronger than aluminum.
Does that mean, if I drop my steel carabiner, I should worry about microfractures? :lol:
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