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crackmd


Nov 15, 2004, 1:24 PM
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Purpose of route database?
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I hope my boss does not read this post. During my workday, I often spend my minimal amount of freetime perusing RC.com forums and route descriptions. This is my way of living vicariously through others posts and route descriptions. It only helps to get me more psyched for upcoming weekend climbing trips and climbing vacations.

I have found the route database to be invaluable and often enjoyable. It is really cool to read others' descriptions and experiences on routes that I have done. I have gotten some great beta on finding hard to find routes through the database. It has also gotten me psyched to get on more obscure routes which often times guidebooks don't emphasize. Most posters do a great job of sharing information and experience on routes without detracting from the adventure of the route (i.e. revealing the crux sequence).

I guess others take a different view of the function of the RC.com database. I feel a real letdown when I do a killer route and find that it has already been added by another climber who gives no description and no gear beta other than "bolts" or "gear". It bums me out since I feel like I could add an insightful and interesting post that others would enjoy reading, but it has already been done by someone in the form of a litany. It is obvious that some posters are posting routes that they have not done in that every route on a specific crag will be "listed" with no information or insight. I try to offset this by being insightful in my ascent record, but I'm not sure how many people read those.

I guess the purpose of this post is to discuss what is the purpose of the route database. Is is a medium to share experiences on routes with other climbers or a litany of route names? My feeling is that if one does not have anything insightful to say about a route, then don't post it and let someone who does post it. If you have not done the route, don't post it. There are plenty of guidebooks that list routes and this database need not be a comprehensive list of routes.


sidepull


Nov 15, 2004, 1:31 PM
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Re: Purpose of route database? [In reply to]
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i've had a slightly different experience with the route database. in general i find the information "sketchy" at best. I think the route database could really be a great feature but in it's current state I don't see that happening.


crackmd


Nov 15, 2004, 1:36 PM
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i've had a slightly different experience with the route database. in general i find the information "sketchy" at best. I think the route database could really be a great feature but in it's current state I don't see that happening.

One must take any "second-hand" info with a grain of salt. I have found some sketchyness but also some great info. It adds to the adventure to figure out which is which.


crackrn


Nov 15, 2004, 2:19 PM
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question to admins: Is there a way someone can edit what the original poster says (or doesn't say, more often then not) about a route? Some posters go too far, giving a move by move description of the route but many give just enough info to make the route intriguing. That's what I'd like to see more of.


Partner j_ung


Nov 15, 2004, 2:24 PM
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In reply to:
question to admins: Is there a way someone can edit what the original poster says (or doesn't say, more often then not) about a route? Some posters go too far, giving a move by move description of the route but many give just enough info to make the route intriguing. That's what I'd like to see more of.

Did you try clicking the big EDIT button next to the route's name? :wink:


4gottherope


Nov 15, 2004, 2:37 PM
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I agree with your stated purpose. I think it is a resource to find new climbs and report on my climbs.

I have found that most of the routes descriptions are pretty sketchy and many people don't take any time to write anything. This limits the value of the route database.

It would also be more useful if the search functions actually worked. I can search but the name must be EXACTLY as it is in the database or you can't locate the climb/area. Plus you can't search by any of the other fields, difficulty, etc. As a result I spend WAY too much time picking through to find stuff that I can climb.


dontfall


Nov 15, 2004, 2:41 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
question to admins: Is there a way someone can edit what the original poster says (or doesn't say, more often then not) about a route? Some posters go too far, giving a move by move description of the route but many give just enough info to make the route intriguing. That's what I'd like to see more of.

Did you try clicking the big EDIT button next to the route's name? :wink:

funny how someone is bitching about the rdb but asks a noob question. Read before asking ass clown


johnson6102002


Nov 15, 2004, 2:43 PM
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well the search function was just redone and is much better now


sed


Nov 15, 2004, 2:50 PM
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it's purpose is defined by how you use it.


chronicle


Nov 15, 2004, 2:50 PM
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The RDB is editable by anyone. My goal for this fall is to edit the information for the Deleware Water Gap. A lot of the climbs there have nothing more than a name and a rating. No gear, no route description, nothing. At first I was rather upset about this, since I was looking for some info on the DWG.

Then I realized it was an opportunity to give back to RC.com and the RDB, by contributing first-hand beta. Plus it has given me a local ticklist for the end of the season.


tarzan420


Nov 15, 2004, 3:01 PM
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I've always felt that the data for a route's entry on the DB should be somewhat limited and hopefully objective. IE: "route follows left facing corner to double cracks, protect with gear to 3 inches " as opposed to "great route 3 stars beta for crux blah blah blah". if you want to tell folks how great a route is, add an ascent for the route, put your beta, opinions, etc in your comments, and not in the route description.


crackmd


Nov 15, 2004, 3:10 PM
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In reply to:
I've always felt that the data for a route's entry on the DB should be somewhat limited and hopefully objective. IE: "route follows left facing corner to double cracks, protect with gear to 3 inches " as opposed to "great route 3 stars beta for crux blah blah blah". if you want to tell folks how great a route is, add an ascent for the route, put your beta, opinions, etc in your comments, and not in the route description.

Couldn't disagree with you more bro! Anyone can go grab the guidebook at REI for an objective description of routes. This database would be of no interest to me if it were just objective info just as easily and more completely documented in a guidebook somewhere. The most use and interest I derive from the database is when posters go BEYOND what is already documented in the climbing guidebook literature. As I said before, with a little thought this can be done without revealing key beta and detracting from ones adventure and experience.


crackmd


Nov 15, 2004, 3:21 PM
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The RDB is editable by anyone. My goal for this fall is to edit the information for the Deleware Water Gap. A lot of the climbs there have nothing more than a name and a rating. No gear, no route description, nothing. At first I was rather upset about this, since I was looking for some info on the DWG.

Then I realized it was an opportunity to give back to RC.com and the RDB, by contributing first-hand beta. Plus it has given me a local ticklist for the end of the season.

I was the same way with Suicide Rock where I climbed a bunch this past summer. Great routes with a ton of history all worthy of insightful descriptions were plagued with those same posts you describe only consisting of a name and maybe "gear" or "bolts". I would love to take the time to update this, but I am hesitant to overwright someone else's "masterpiece". Part of me feels that I would be doing a good thing for the website and my fellow climbers yet at the same time I feel like it is equivalant to jumping on someone else's "proj".


crackmd


Nov 15, 2004, 5:57 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
question to admins: Is there a way someone can edit what the original poster says (or doesn't say, more often then not) about a route? Some posters go too far, giving a move by move description of the route but many give just enough info to make the route intriguing. That's what I'd like to see more of.

Did you try clicking the big EDIT button next to the route's name? :wink:

funny how someone is b---- about the rdb but asks a noob question. Read before asking ass clown

That's no way to speak to a lady bro! Especially one who could potentially be nursing your ass back to health someday if you take a header bouldering. You really should apologize.


crackrn


Nov 15, 2004, 7:36 PM
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...funny how someone is b---- about the rdb but asks a noob question. Read before asking ass clown

Wow. I m not sure what I did to deserve such hostility (transference, anyone?) but Im not surprised. It seems like so many innocent posts such as mine end up with rude comments from boors like you. Did I insult your mother or something?


crackrn


Nov 15, 2004, 7:38 PM
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Did you try clicking the big EDIT button next to the route's name? :wink:

Whoops! :oops:


overlord


Nov 16, 2004, 4:37 AM
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yes, anyone can edit the route, section and area information, uless the if the area is locked, in wich case contact the area manager (or the senior routesDB managers) to ulock it or add/modify the data.

feel free to add anything you like if youre sure youve got the right beta.

also, its considered polite if you uncheck the "owerwite with" box in area editing screen, or the crag will be listed as if youve "created" it. that could piss somebody off. anyway, i always do it if im editing something in my country (no use for claiming someones credit if all i did was add solor coding to the name of the area).


chronicle


Nov 16, 2004, 6:26 AM
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I would love to take the time to update this, but I am hesitant to overwright someone else's "masterpiece". Part of me feels that I would be doing a good thing for the website and my fellow climbers yet at the same time I feel like it is equivalant to jumping on someone else's "proj".

I think a lot of people feel that way, and that is why some parts of the RDB are really poor. Like Overlord said, you can uncheck the box "overwrite with", then it won't look like you are the original poster. If you are concerned about stepping on someone's toes, then PM the person that posted the area and ask if you can update xxxxx route.


chronicle


Nov 16, 2004, 6:32 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I've always felt that the data for a route's entry on the DB should be somewhat limited and hopefully objective. IE: "route follows left facing corner to double cracks, protect with gear to 3 inches " as opposed to "great route 3 stars beta for crux blah blah blah". if you want to tell folks how great a route is, add an ascent for the route, put your beta, opinions, etc in your comments, and not in the route description.

Couldn't disagree with you more bro! Anyone can go grab the guidebook at REI for an objective description of routes. This database would be of no interest to me if it were just objective info just as easily and more completely documented in a guidebook somewhere. The most use and interest I derive from the database is when posters go BEYOND what is already documented in the climbing guidebook literature. As I said before, with a little thought this can be done without revealing key beta and detracting from ones adventure and experience.

I agree with crackmd if the area has a guidebook. However, a lot of areas (especially in PA) do not have a guidebook. For those areas, I would agree with Tarzan. Either way, as long as there is some kind of information for XXXXXX route or XXXXXX Area, then I have no problem with what's posted.

It's the routes that just have a name and YDS rating that bother me. If you are going to take the time to put in the name and rating of the route, then take the time to put in a small description, and how's it's protected (drop downs are very easy to use).


granite_grrl


Nov 16, 2004, 6:59 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I've always felt that the data for a route's entry on the DB should be somewhat limited and hopefully objective. IE: "route follows left facing corner to double cracks, protect with gear to 3 inches " as opposed to "great route 3 stars beta for crux blah blah blah". if you want to tell folks how great a route is, add an ascent for the route, put your beta, opinions, etc in your comments, and not in the route description.

Couldn't disagree with you more bro! Anyone can go grab the guidebook at REI for an objective description of routes. This database would be of no interest to me if it were just objective info just as easily and more completely documented in a guidebook somewhere. The most use and interest I derive from the database is when posters go BEYOND what is already documented in the climbing guidebook literature. As I said before, with a little thought this can be done without revealing key beta and detracting from ones adventure and experience.

I agree with crackmd if the area has a guidebook. However, a lot of areas (especially in PA) do not have a guidebook. For those areas, I would agree with Tarzan. Either way, as long as there is some kind of information for XXXXXX route or XXXXXX Area, then I have no problem with what's posted.

It's the routes that just have a name and YDS rating that bother me. If you are going to take the time to put in the name and rating of the route, then take the time to put in a small description, and how's it's protected (drop downs are very easy to use).

I like looking through the routes db to get excited about an upcoming trip, but I don't expect it to replace a guide book (I hate the people who copy the area's info from a guide book onto this site, a lot of the time somebody spent their time putting that info together. If you want this beta support the person who collected it and buy the guide). Though there are times when there is no other ressource for an area yet.

I also don't want someone's opinion totally colouring the route for me. I know that I've really enjoyed certain routes that others will forget as soon as they've done them. If I want this kind of info then there's that list of people who've climbed the route and can put their opinion's in there.

I like the middle of the road approch. Enough info to get an idea of what's in the area, but not someone's personal move by move account of the route. To be honest what I use the data base the most for is just to keep track of what I've been climbing (I keep meaning to start up a better climbing journal, but it hasn't happened yet :oops: ).


anykineclimb


Nov 16, 2004, 7:18 AM
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Heres a question for you guys:

Say a new area has popped up. The areas developer has requested that any route information NOT be put onto databases such as this one. His reasoning is he feels it would detract from the sales of the new guidebook; which all proceeds go towards develpoment cost(bolts, hangers, chains, printing cost, etc)
I feel this is completely fair for the initial "newness" of an area, say a year or so, to let everyone buy the guide. Honestly I'll probably buy a guide, donate money AND volunteer with labor.

Whats everyones opinion on this?


overlord


Nov 16, 2004, 7:24 AM
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id put into the database, just without location of the are and sections.

puting in photos, grades, lenghts etc just makes good free advertizing. and if you want directions to the climbs and the gear required, go buy the book.

offcourse i would lock the thing so not everybody who bought the guidebook couldve put it on.


robmcc


Nov 16, 2004, 7:27 AM
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The description definitely should not have beta on the actual climbing. There was one such route that I edited to remove the beta after posting a question asking what everyone thought of it. Nobody disagreed, a few agreed, so off it went. Beta on what gear is needed? I don't have a problem with that.

Rob


fracture


Nov 16, 2004, 7:28 AM
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Say a new area has popped up. The areas developer has requested that any route information NOT be put onto databases such as this one. His reasoning is he feels it would detract from the sales of the new guidebook; which all proceeds go towards develpoment cost(bolts, hangers, chains, printing cost, etc)

Tough shit.

Information wants to be free.


dingus


Nov 16, 2004, 7:45 AM
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In reply to:
Heres a question for you guys:

Say a new area has popped up. The areas developer has requested that any route information NOT be put onto databases such as this one.

Whats everyones opinion on this?

Here's a question right back atchew:

Say a new area has popped up. The area developers seem to like you so they clue you into this new resource. SCORE!!! But they ask you, point blank, not to post or publish anything about this area... FOR WHATEVER REASON. (pretty common when dealing with new areas)

Now you go ahead and post up some info to some internet site and they get wind of it.

Say another new area has 'popped up.' (I like that, popped up, liike routes come out of a toaster or something... chill Bro, just chuckling with ya my man!) Do you think these area developers are likely to tell you about their latest project???

DMT

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