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euleto
Nov 26, 2004, 3:39 PM
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Registered: Jun 20, 2004
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Hi.
I just recently started getting into sport climbing, and by spring, I think I am going to need my own draws, so I can hit up stuff outside without borrowing.
My local gym sells the metolius quickdraw packs, they are priced very well compared to most websites. However, is this a good choice? or should I order some different ones?
Also, what sort of sling sizes should I look for as a beginning sport climber (The packs of metolius come in 5 and 7 inch, I was originally going to buy a pack of both, but then I remembered that have no knowledge on the subject...)
Thanks.
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overlord
Nov 26, 2004, 4:31 PM
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it doesnt really matter wich brand you buy. yes, some are lighter than others, some clip better, but if you can get 10 for the price of 5 buy 10 of them. actually weight isnt really that bothersome to me, youll be rarely carrying more than 10 of them on a route anyway. i really like wiregates though, theyre a breeze to clip.
as for sling length, get a mix.
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kriso9tails
Nov 29, 2004, 2:22 AM
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Registered: Jul 1, 2001
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My first set of draws came down to the most affordable I could find and they did me well. There are many subtle differences between draws, but there's a drastic difference between any draws and no quick draws at all. I didn't really have enough when I started to do certain routes which led to having to down climb to retrieve draws so I'd have a single draw to thread bolts to rap off of... not a good idea.
Now I have to replace five draws that went missing (no idea how) and I have my preferances. On top I'm going with petzl spirits (straight gate of course) because they have been the easiest for me to recover, especially if I have to pull them off of steep routes on the way down. For the rope end I'm going with BD hotwires because I like the gate action and how the shape of the biner fits in my hand for clipping (some biners feel really awkward to me).
I'll probably just go with 21cm slings just because it suits the distance I typically clip from. Really though, if you can place on the bolt you can clip it regardless of how short your sling is. I'd like at least one long sling (haven't decided length yet) for when I need something to reduce rope drag. I'd also like two slings at least 35cm with lockers for anchors, since the only locking biners I have left are my belay biner and one for myself for threading anchors. I don't really care all that much about having lockers for the anchors, but it makes me feel better if I was rope gunning for someone to tr after to have them up.
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gamehendge
Nov 29, 2004, 2:31 AM
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
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Seven inch is better. Also, try to get ones that have a wiregates on the rope clipping side. It makes clipping rope easier. (i.e. http://www.omegapac.com/opfoqdsw.html) Brand is not too big a deal IMHO. What ever is on sale is usually my preferred choice. :P
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climbingbums
Nov 29, 2004, 3:10 AM
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Registered: Nov 18, 2003
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I disagree with a lot of people on this subject. i guess it might depend on how hard you climb, but dont go cheap. ive had more accidents on sport routes because i cant clip the rope than i have on trad climbs. If you have the funds, go with petzl spirits, or go with my new favorite, the black diamond dynotron/livewire. honestly, borrow and stock up over time, youll just end up paying a lot later when you climb can well. messing around climbing a 13 is never fun. it will come faster than you think. good luck and be safe.
Bobby
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jakedatc
Nov 29, 2004, 4:51 AM
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Registered: Mar 12, 2003
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i say.. go play in the store and try them out.. find out which you like the best... personally i love my OP JC's for the rope side.. and would love to replace the bolt sides with BD positrons but isnt in the budget right now so i deal...
i also think alot of it is familiarity .. if you have your own set then you get used to how to clip them best..
is the "draw thread" taking over the shoe thread position yet?
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kriso9tails
Nov 29, 2004, 5:21 AM
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In reply to: I disagree with a lot of people on this subject. i guess it might depend on how hard you climb, but dont go cheap.
The issue was not to intentionally go cheap, but to accept what was affordable. If it's going to be a year before you can afford the best set of draws you can think of and that's going to mean a year of not climbing, then I don't see it as worthwhile to wait. In my case if I didn't have draws I often didn't climb with anyone who did so it was go affordable or don't go. If it's just an issue of putting up a little more cash than yes, it is a worthwhile investment to find draws that suit you (which may not actually mean more money in the end). Having draws that aren't super great will not cause you to fall in and of itself.
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josephgdawson
Nov 29, 2004, 5:54 AM
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Registered: Jan 20, 2004
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These people are insane. Get the Petzel Spirit draws. They are by far the best for sport. They will cost you, but they handle ooooo so well. There is no notch in either biner (they wont catch on ropes or hangers), the biners dont flop around in the draws, and the draw itself is made out of nylon, so it is big and easly to handle. Go to a store and feel them. You'll see what I mean.
I bought 6 Petzle Spirits and 6 BD something or rathers. I hate the BD ones. The just suck. Im getting myself 6 more Spirits and giving the BD ones away.
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gamehendge
Nov 29, 2004, 6:04 AM
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
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I have 12 7" Metolius Draws for sport and just replace all the rope side w/ Omega Pac JCs. What a huge improvement. They're also on sale for $4.86 (normally $6.95) @
http://www.northernmountain.com/NMSMain.asp?Option=Detail&ID=JC+Carabiner&Dept=CL&Cat=CL0&SubCat='CL00'
My point is that I don't think you should go cheap but look around cause there alot of deals out there. Or try putting is it together w/ diff. pieces on sale.
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jt512
Nov 29, 2004, 6:04 AM
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: These people are insane. Get the Petzel Spirit draws. They are by far the best for sport. They will cost you, but they handle ooooo so well. There is no notch in either biner (they wont catch on ropes or hangers), the biners dont flop around in the draws, and the draw itself is made out of nylon, so it is big and easly to handle. Go to a store and feel them. You'll see what I mean. I bought 6 Petzle Spirits and 6 BD something or rathers. I hate the BD ones. The just suck. Im getting myself 6 more Spirits and giving the BD ones away.
The Spirit draws are still my favorite for sport climbng, too. I don't like the trend toward flimsy kevlar slings of ever decreasing width. The stiff nylon Petzl slings make clipping easier. Also, light weight biners aren't necessarily better for sport climbing, either. I bought a WC Helium biner to try it out, and my initial impression is that its low mass makes it more difficult to handle while clipping. On a hard redpoint attempt, chances are you won't be carrying the draws up with you anyway, so light weight isn't important.
-Jay
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daveh_cdn
Nov 29, 2004, 6:26 AM
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Registered: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 47
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20cm DMM Prowires are your friend.
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coldclimb
Nov 29, 2004, 7:10 AM
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Registered: Jan 14, 2002
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Matters not. Metolius is great. :)
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daisuke
Nov 29, 2004, 11:20 AM
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Registered: Aug 28, 2001
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it doesn't matter how much they cost... just make sure of 4 things
1) that the rope side biner has a bent gate, not critical but it helps
2) that the rope side biner doesn't rotate freely on the sling (I nearly died because of this)
3) that the sling is reasonably stiff: you don't need to count ounces in sport climbing and it makes life easier
4) that the biners are the right size for your hand
all other considerations are trivial, you can buy the most expensive draws out there but unless you can clip them easy they're not worth all the extra bucks, buy the ones that fit your needs, and if you can get good draws for a good price then go for it. Metolius draws are completely average in my oppinion.
If you can find them, replace all rope-side biners with Kong ultratop bent wiregates, they're by very far the easiest clipping biners I've ever come across, one look at them and you'll know what I mean, you don't clip them, you deposit the rope in them, they're also extremely strong
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eyecannon
Nov 29, 2004, 6:55 PM
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Registered: May 4, 2004
Posts: 517
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I bought a set of Metolius quickdraws (one regular gate, one wiregate, 7") and they are pretty good. A couple things to be aware of though:
1) they are not the lightest draws on the market
2) the dogbone is not rigid, so if you like them stiffer, look elsewhere (Petzl, BD)
3) they are not keylock biners, which you probably won't care about at first, but may want later
Definitely get the longer ones though, they only add a few inches to your falls, but really cut down on rope drag.
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unabonger
Nov 29, 2004, 9:32 PM
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Registered: Aug 8, 2003
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Everyone carries a bunch of 11 and 17 cm draws. I suggest getting a half dozen 25cm petzl draws. At least. www.petzl.com
Rope drag decreases significantly when you use the long dongs.
Petzl Spirit is the best biner.
Many others work very well too.
UB
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jdouble
Nov 29, 2004, 9:53 PM
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Registered: Jun 15, 2004
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In reply to: On top I'm going with petzl spirits (straight gate of course) because they have been the easiest for me to recover, especially if I have to pull them off of steep routes on the way down. For the rope end I'm going with BD hotwires because I like the gate action and how the shape of the biner fits in my hand for clipping (some biners feel really awkward to me).
Ditto. Really nice set up.
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fallenfreesoloist
Nov 29, 2004, 10:26 PM
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Registered: Jul 10, 2004
Posts: 48
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clip the borrowed draws and try to figure out what you like to clip. (i highly reccomend JC wiregates by omega pcific for their easy clipability and deep baskets and huge rope bearing surface). i also highly highly recomend puttin keylocks(spirit, positron, dynotron) on the straight gate for easy removal from the harness. you can slap them on another draw or just buy somethin with them on it. gearexpress.com runs some good deals. also dont use wiregates on the bolt side as they can get caught sideways in the hanger and cross load easier. for refference on that subject see the quickdraw review in an older(less that a year i think)issue of rock and ice.
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unrooted
Dec 3, 2004, 5:44 PM
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Registered: Mar 13, 2003
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http://www.bdel.com/...rock/posiwire_qd.php
I absolutely love the PosiWire, cheaper than Petzl spirits (16.95), a little lighter, and clip even easier. The positron is almost identical to the spirit, and the hotwire is soooooo easy to clip.
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sabu
Dec 4, 2004, 12:28 AM
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Registered: Aug 14, 2004
Posts: 51
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to be perfectly frank draws are draws and the all do the same job. if ur really worried about weight .... lighten up it's only a few grams get over it!! i use wat ever i can get at a cheap price, if i want to reduce rope drap and use an extended sling i take a few krabs and slings and make my own. i hate the wiregates cos they just not comfortable to clip. **this is just my opinion!! :D
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ron_burgandy
Dec 7, 2004, 8:24 PM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 186
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I have a mixture of Metolious, DMM and Black Diamond, and they all work great- i have to say though that i like my DMM the best- they clip really smooth and easy like. but its not that the others are bad i just prefer the feel of my DMM eclipse draws
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