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olympicmtnboy
Dec 4, 2004, 8:11 PM
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Registered: Feb 4, 2003
Posts: 270
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Hey Folks,
I'm sure you're tired of people doing research projects here and sking about the history of this gear and that, but here's a short survey. Take a few minutes to help me with my marketing project. I'm doing a sort of industry analysis of the cam market right now and I wanted a get a few opinions. Part of my project is an analysis of the positioning of various brands. Please rate the following cam brands on how you perceive their quality from 1-10, with one being low quality, and 10 being high. Note this is not on safety as nearly all cams are certified, this is just how you "feel" about quality. I think many people would rate BD cams as beinghigher quality that Rock Empire for example, although feel free to disagree by using my rating scale. Also this is by brand, so if a company makes more than one line of cams, just give me a general feeling of the whole brand. I don't care if you have or have not used these cams, it's all on perception, although please don't rate a brand you've never heard of. I'll post the results of my price vs. quality positioning later if you like.
Rate these, 1 = low quality, 10 = high quality
Trango (Flex cams, new and old style)
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar)
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4)
Omege Pacific (Link Cams)
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams)
HB (Quadcams)
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder)
CCH (Aliens)
Valley Giants (really big cams)
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU)
Kong (Spider cams)
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends)
others I've forgotten (Please specify)
Thanks a lot for you help. :-)
OlympicMtnBoy
P.S. If you want your response counted, please respond to the survey by 9PM (EST), Sunday, Dec 5th.
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theishofoz
Dec 4, 2004, 8:38 PM
Post #2 of 27
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Registered: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 217
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Trango (Flex cams, new and old style)------6 (theese are from the same
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar) ------------6 manufacturing place, just different names)
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4)----------9
Omege Pacific (Link Cams) ??
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams) -------------------
HB (Quadcams, flexi-fix ) ------------7
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder) ??
CCH (Aliens)-----------------------------------9
Valley Giants (really big cams) ??
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU) -------------------??
Kong (Spider cams) ------------------------------??
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends--7 (i have only used the fidhid stemed ones and they are totally bomber but heavy, but totally worth it)
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euroford
Dec 4, 2004, 9:08 PM
Post #3 of 27
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
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Rate these, 1 = low quality, 10 = high quality
[indigo]to clarify ratings:
1 = would not climb on it
5 = adiquate from a safety perspect, but may be lacking features or have poor worksmanship inhibiting longevity
10 = the benchmark of quality design/engineering/worksmanship currently available in todays cams[/indigo]
Trango (Flex cams, new and old style)
old style = 6
new style = 8
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar)
robots = 5
pulsars = ?
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4)
camelots = 8
c4's = 9
Omege Pacific (Link Cams)
?
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams)
sizes 1 and up = 10 - currently the benchmark in cam design
sizes 1 and down = 7
HB (Quadcams)
?
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder)
fat cams = ?
TCUs = 7
4 cams = 5
CCH (Aliens)
7
Valley Giants (really big cams)
6
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU)
2CU = 3 - just a bad idea
4CU = 5
Kong (Spider cams)
??
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends)
zeros = 10 - currently the state of the art in small cam design
tech friends = 7
forged friends = 5
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cgranite
Dec 4, 2004, 9:11 PM
Post #4 of 27
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Registered: Aug 5, 2003
Posts: 366
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Tech friends 8
Old Camalots 8
C4 9
Metolius powercams (4-6) 10
Metolius TCU 8
Aliens 7
Man, I'm bored... :roll:
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euroford
Dec 4, 2004, 9:19 PM
Post #5 of 27
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
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why would you think Metolious powercams are a 10? i find they have a highly inadiquate expensansion range, are prone to becoming fixed more easly due to overcaming, have inapropriotlly stiff slings, are not very lightweight, the trigger does not allow indipendent cam controll, and they are not suitablly less expensive to compensate.
sure, they'll fit where they are supposed to, and will keep you off the deck, but in comparison to numerous other offerings fall very short.
i'm not trying to flame anybody here, just asking for sake of discusion.
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cgailey
Dec 4, 2004, 9:23 PM
Post #6 of 27
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 585
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Trango (Flex cams, new and old style)
Old-6
New-7
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar)
Robots-5
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4)
9
Omege Pacific (Link Cams)
6
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams)
7
HB (Quadcams)
5
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder)
9
CCH (Aliens)
8
Valley Giants (really big cams)
??
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU)
6
Kong (Spider cams)
??
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends)
8
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gunksgoer
Dec 4, 2004, 9:41 PM
Post #7 of 27
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
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Trango (Flex cams, new and old style)
old, 6.5, new, 7
(edit, i realized i put them the same as metolius, which they arnt)
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar)
5 for the robots, never seen a pulsar
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4)
camalots, 9, C4s, 9.5
Omege Pacific (Link Cams)
they look sketchy, so a 6
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams)
8 or 9, they seem nice
HB (Quadcams)
ew i hate em, 4
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder)
fat cams, never seen one, tcus, 8, powercams, 7
rangefinders, I HATE THEM, even tho they are basically the same thing as power cams, i mean whats next? a rope that has markings on it telling your how to tie in!? ifya need colored dots on your cams to know how to place them, u shouldnt be trad climbing. i give them a 4.1 so they are still better then quadcams.
CCH (Aliens)
9
Valley Giants (really big cams)
those things are so rare, i have no clue...
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU)
2cu, 8, only thing in their class for aid, 4cu, 5
Kong (Spider cams)
5
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends)
others I've forgotten (Please specify)
zeros, 9.5, tech friends, 9, forged friends, 7.5
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cgranite
Dec 4, 2004, 9:46 PM
Post #8 of 27
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Registered: Aug 5, 2003
Posts: 366
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Powercams 4-6 are the best cams I have used in my opinion. The range is hardily lacking, and the reason the expansion is shorter is to make the holding power better, which I have found to be very awesome in comparison to other cams.
Another fact is that they are very light.
They are also very durable, and low maintenance.
They also rack up very well and don't get tangled.
The trigger bar is very comfortable in my hand and the dual support of the cables make tricky or desperate placements easier.
They also work really well in horizontals.
One more thing I like is the way all the cam lobes are together making a narrow head for pods.
It doesn't hurt that I took a whipper on a #6 and it doesn't even look like it was loaded on.
I can't help not to love these cams.
Conversation is fine. :wink:
#1 C4 Camalot 1.2-2 4.7 oz
#6 Powercam 1.28-1.98 4.0 oz
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gunksgoer
Dec 4, 2004, 9:49 PM
Post #9 of 27
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
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on other thing i would like to add, is i tihnk it really depends on the specific size, like i think the smaller aliens are cool, but the biggist couple are iffy. same kinda thing with the trangos, the smaller are ok, but they bigger ones arnt good. many manufacturers excell only in certain size ranges, which isnt factored into this test thing.
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orangekyak
Dec 4, 2004, 9:51 PM
Post #10 of 27
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 1832
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rango (Flex cams, new and old style) 7
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar) 5
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4) 8
Omege Pacific (Link Cams) ?
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams) 9
HB (Quadcams) 7
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder) 9
CCH (Aliens) 8
Valley Giants (really big cams) ?
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU) ?
Kong (Spider cams) ?
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends) 10
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tattooed_climber
Dec 5, 2004, 6:03 AM
Post #11 of 27
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Registered: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 4838
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Trango (Flex cams, new and old style) ............n/a
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar) ...................5
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4) ............camalots=8......C4=9
Omege Pacific (Link Cams) ..............-10
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams) ..........3CU=8-9.....4CU=7
HB (Quadcams) ............n/a
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder) ..................9
CCH (Aliens) ................9
Valley Giants (really big cams) .........n/a
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU) ..............n/a
Kong (Spider cams) ................n/a
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends) .........tech=8
others I've forgotten (Please specify).........BALLNUTS=7
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holdplease2
Dec 5, 2004, 6:20 AM
Post #12 of 27
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Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
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Are you getting paid for this, or is this a school project?
(working on answering the survey, btw)
-Kate.
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reno
Dec 5, 2004, 3:22 PM
Post #13 of 27
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
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1 = low quality, 10 = high quality
Trango (Flex cams, new and old style) -- 9 small, 7 large.
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar) -- ??
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4) -- 7 (Camalots only, NOT C4s.)
Omege Pacific (Link Cams) -- 5
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams) -- 6
HB (Quadcams) -- ??
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder) -- 7 (Range Finder only.)
CCH (Aliens) -- 9, if price isn't considered.
Valley Giants (really big cams) -- ??
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU) -- 4
Kong (Spider cams) -- ??
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends) -- 9 (Tech Friends.)
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climboard
Dec 5, 2004, 4:07 PM
Post #14 of 27
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Registered: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 503
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Trango (Flex cams, new and old style) 8
Rock Empire (Robots and Pulsar) 6
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4) 10
Omege Pacific (Link Cams) 7
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams) 8
HB (Quadcams) 7
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder) 9
CCH (Aliens) 8
Valley Giants (really big cams) 7
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU) 6
Kong (Spider cams) 6
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends) 10
others I've forgotten (Please specify)
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olympicmtnboy
Dec 5, 2004, 4:31 PM
Post #15 of 27
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Posts: 270
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Thanks everyone, this is great, should be enough for that section of my project if a few more people add in their $0.02. In response to Kate, no, I'm not getting paid for this, I probably would have started earlier and done it a bit differently if I were. This is for my grad school marketing project which is sort of an industry wide marketing survey of the cam industry. I'll post up what I find if anyone is interested. :-)
- OlympicMtnBoy
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jt512
Dec 5, 2004, 8:24 PM
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In reply to: Thanks everyone, this is great, should be enough for that section of my project if a few more people add in their $0.02. In response to Kate, no, I'm not getting paid for this, I probably would have started earlier and done it a bit differently if I were. This is for my grad school marketing project which is sort of an industry wide marketing survey of the cam industry. I'll post up what I find if anyone is interested. :-) - OlympicMtnBoy
Pretty shlocky approach to survey research at the graduate level.
-Jay
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alpiner
Dec 5, 2004, 8:40 PM
Post #17 of 27
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Registered: Feb 23, 2003
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In reply to: Pretty shlocky approach to survey research at the graduate level.
Modern education. With all the grade inflation and cheating, an A student of today is the C student of a decade ago.
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olympicmtnboy
Dec 5, 2004, 9:16 PM
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Yep, thanks for your support JT, you can always count on that good friendly atmosphere here on RC.com. FYI, I'm taking a marketing class for fun and I'm not a business or marketing major. I had a death in my family a week and a half ago and I'm a bit behind and the semester ends in a week. As a small part of my class project I thought it would be interesting to throw together a little survey here. It's all about personal perception anyways so a self selected small internet survey group works pretty damn well for the requirement. I'm glad you took the time to help out on it. :-)
- OMB
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olympicmtnboy
Dec 5, 2004, 9:23 PM
Post #19 of 27
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I'm closing the survey but feel free to discuss more if you like. The final results are
BD - 8.7
WC - 8.5
Metolius - 8.2
CCH - 8.2
DMM - 7.7
Trango - 7.0
Omega - 6.8
Valley Giants - 6.3
HB - 6.2
Splitter - 5.4
Kong/Camp - 5.3
Rock Empire - 5.3
As my unit of analysis is the company, I averaged the scores of those who rated different product lines seperately. As you might expect, it goes along the lines of average price in the USA too, with Omega and Valley Giants being the only ones deviating significantly from that line for the obvious reasons. Trango also comes out a bit higher on the quality vs. price scale than the average line.
Thanks again for those of you who took my survey and helped out. I appreaciate it.
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jt512
Dec 6, 2004, 7:09 PM
Post #20 of 27
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In reply to: Yep, thanks for your support JT, you can always count on that good friendly atmosphere here on RC.com. FYI, I'm taking a marketing class for fun and I'm not a business or marketing major. I had a death in my family a week and a half ago and I'm a bit behind and the semester ends in a week. As a small part of my class project I thought it would be interesting to throw together a little survey here. It's all about personal perception anyways so a self selected small internet survey group works pretty damn well for the requirement. I'm glad you took the time to help out on it. :-) - OMB
I especially liked the part where you suggest the answer within the question itself: "I think many people would rate BD cams as beinghigher quality that Rock Empire for example, although feel free to disagree by using my rating scale."
You're lucky I'm not your professor.
-Jay
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midwestishell
Dec 6, 2004, 7:33 PM
Post #21 of 27
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 147
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Can someone please give me a few reasons why the like BDs so much. They cost more and seem to be heavier than WC, Trango, or DMM (the companies I am most familiar with). Ranges also appear not to variable between brands.
Is it just convention? Once a BD always a BD? This is generally my feeling.
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salami
Dec 6, 2004, 8:48 PM
Post #22 of 27
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Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 128
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In reply to: Can someone please give me a few reasons why the like BDs so much. They cost more and seem to be heavier than WC, Trango, or DMM (the companies I am most familiar with). Ranges also appear not to variable between brands. Is it just convention? Once a BD always a BD? This is generally my feeling.
The extra weight people shouldn't be b!tching about. because 90% of the climbers that b!tch should look to take 10lbs off their a$$ rather than 1lb from their rack.
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vegastradguy
Dec 7, 2004, 7:47 AM
Post #23 of 27
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Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
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Trango (Flex cams, new and old style)-
old style- 4
Black Diamond (Camalots and C4)
Camalots- 8/9
C4s 9/10
Omege Pacific (Link Cams) -
just a guess, since they're not out yet- 5
DMM (3 cams and 4 cams) -
just dont care for these- 6/7
HB (Quadcams)
same as dmm 6/7
Metolius (Fat cams, TCUs, Range Finder) -
good, but not my top choice 7/8
CCH (Aliens)
i'm an alien whore-
10
Valley Giants (really big cams)
because they're trophy cams- 7
Splitter Gear (2CU and 4CU)
although these cams have been bought by others, they were shaky at best. 5
Wild Country (Zeros, Tech Friends, Forged Friends)
WC makes solid stuff- 8
i also second jt's comment on suggesting the answer- bad form for unbiased research!
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mheyman
Dec 7, 2004, 2:13 PM
Post #24 of 27
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Registered: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 607
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Jay,
Strictly speaking I beleive that you are correct in your educational points. But, people here ought to be wary of a survey base on the following statment:
"I don't care if you have or have not used these cams, it's all on perception"
At least olympicmtnboy had the curtesy to post this results for whatever they are worth.
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climboard
Dec 7, 2004, 3:08 PM
Post #25 of 27
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Registered: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 503
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In reply to: Jay, Strictly speaking I beleive that you are correct in your educational points. But, people here ought to be wary of a survey base on the following statment: "I don't care if you have or have not used these cams, it's all on perception" At least olympicmtnboy had the curtesy to post this results for whatever they are worth.
If this is indeed a marketing survey I think that statement is valid. In fact, it would probably be preferable to seek results based purely on perception as opposed to actual use.
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