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Partner cracklover


Jan 2, 2005, 3:12 PM
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Mock leading
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Call it what you will - mock leading, leading on TR, taking practice falls with a TR backup - what's your experience with it?

Does mock leading help more or hurt more?

Is it just a crutch created by guides for insurance purposes, or is it a valuable tool to ease the process of becoming a true leader?

Wave of the future, or temporary fad?

I'll let others speak, and then share my own experiences.

GO


veritasmmv


Jan 2, 2005, 3:55 PM
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Re: Mock leading [In reply to]
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i don't know what you're talking about anyway so i offer no opinion


irockclimbtoo


Jan 2, 2005, 4:05 PM
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ab


chrisparedes


Jan 2, 2005, 4:07 PM
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I done a couple mock sport leads. I like it cause you get the feel for how you should be clipping in what not.


nurocks


Jan 2, 2005, 4:10 PM
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Gabe...

I have never done what you said as of yet. However, I have placed gear on rapel and then climbing the route like a sport route. Perhaps when I find a climb that has decent gear placements AND a high potetial that I will fall, I will mock lead it first.

Do you know of any good trad climbs in the .7-.8 range that accept gear easily in the Boston area? I supose that if I were to mock lead anything now, it would probably be Outside corner at QQ. Wanna gimme a belay?

Later,
Jason


esallen


Jan 2, 2005, 4:13 PM
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Never tried it; always thought it would be too much of a hassle. My opinion is that learning to lead (sport or trad) can best be done merely by spending lots of time leading absurdly easy routes (5.4-5.6). That's how I learned. Not saying this is for certain THE best way, just worked great for me and my friends.


johnson6102002


Jan 2, 2005, 4:23 PM
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In reply to:
i don't know what you're talking about anyway so i offer no opinion

STFU NOOB

only speak when your spoken to
and dont write worthless posts like this!!





....im in a bit of a hostile mood tonight...


johnson6102002


Jan 2, 2005, 4:26 PM
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sorry geuss i should answer to this topic too

I do think its a good idea and will be doing it when i go with a guide to learn trad when it gets warmer. it seams like a safer way to learn but thats just my 2 cents


johnnord


Jan 2, 2005, 4:31 PM
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I've used it with students (minors) a few times over the years in both institutional and privates contexts. It's a good way to manage the risks of teaching someone the basics of leading (and to protect yourself and your institution in case of an accident.) It's a lot extra work, so with older, more experienced climbers I just put them on something low angle and easy.


Partner sharpendguy


Jan 2, 2005, 4:40 PM
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If you take any outdoor leading classes this is how you will learn. Your instructor can then check your placements & advise on how to make them better if needed. You will also be asked to take falls on your gear. Its amazing what you can learn when test your gear this way. Took my lead class 8 years ago from ASI at Donner Summit, 3 day class, the best class I ever took. Many gyms offer classes like this also, but without the exposure things just aren't the same.


Partner melodicllama


Jan 2, 2005, 4:53 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
i don't know what you're talking about anyway so i offer no opinion

STFU NOOB

only speak when your spoken to
and dont write worthless posts like this!!





....im in a bit of a hostile mood tonight...

yea pms is a blower...

anyway...i havent done much(any :wink: ) trad, but i have mock led and i found the experience to be valuable. it allows you to practice placements without any personal risk, as some people have mentioned.


cthulu


Jan 2, 2005, 5:05 PM
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There's is a guide service near by that won't ever let you trad well you're with them. Kinda of a bummer but I'm sure they get a huge insurance break.


johnnord


Jan 2, 2005, 5:08 PM
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In reply to:
sorry geuss i should answer to this topic too

I do think its a good idea and will be doing it when i go with a guide to learn trad when it gets warmer. it seams like a safer way to learn but thats just my 2 cents

Scott: and you're calling veritasmmv a Noob? Watch the road rage on the internet superhighway. :wink: There is way too much hostility in the field.


Partner tattooed_climber


Jan 2, 2005, 6:33 PM
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from what i hear, mock leading aid is good for trad and placement skills...

this coming season i want to try it for shits and giggles...


dorkmaster


Jan 2, 2005, 6:49 PM
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veritasmmv, since I can rate today, you just got poo-stained.

on the subject of mock-leading, I have done it I went on a trip with the local YMCA and they wouldnt let me lead for insurance reasons...it kinda sucked...I don't see any point in it if you already know how to lead (like I did), but it seems like a useful tool for teaching noobs how to place gear I guess...


veritasmmv


Jan 2, 2005, 7:00 PM
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or instead of being a fuckin asshole you might could just take that as a hint to tell me what mock leading is, jerkoff... and i read your profile, you've spent two years in a gym and climb 5.9's and you're calling ME a noob... next time you open your stupid mouth make sure you have room to talk


Partner melodicllama


Jan 2, 2005, 7:15 PM
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In reply to:
or instead of being a f--- asshole you might could just take that as a hint to tell me what mock leading is, jerkoff... and i read your profile, you've spent two years in a gym and climb 5.9's and you're calling ME a noob... next time you open your stupid mouth make sure you have room to talk

wow...i predict more flaming balls of poo coming someone's way...

so we were supposed to assume "ive never done it" means "i dont know what it is"? thanks for making that perfectly clear, then calmly explaining when we didnt understand. :roll:


Partner gunksgoer


Jan 2, 2005, 7:30 PM
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yeah a mock lead is a good teaching tool, just make sure to give the noob leader a nice loop of slack in the TR line... :-P


veritasmmv


Jan 2, 2005, 7:44 PM
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so we were supposed to assume "ive never done it" means "i dont know what it is"? thanks for making that perfectly clear, then calmly explaining when we didnt understand. :roll:

What are you drunk? My original post WAS "i don't know what it means". So thanks for making an ass out of yourself


jt512


Jan 2, 2005, 7:48 PM
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In reply to:
I done a couple mock sport leads.

Mock sport leads!? What is this sport coming to?

-Jay

New sig: Mock sport leading is neither.


johnnord


Jan 2, 2005, 7:56 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I done a couple mock sport leads.

Mock sport leads!? What is this sport coming to?

-Jay

New sig: Mock sport leading is neither.
:lol:


robbovius


Jan 2, 2005, 7:56 PM
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Gabe, I found it valuable in wiring the lead moves on Paradise Lost and Excersize left to the Reader, before I led those two last summer. It helped me find where I could rest, and which pieces I was going to place where.
as far as helping me learn overall gear placement skills, what was a greater help to me were the considerable amount of TR anchors I built exclusively with gear over the '02 and '03 seasons, as well as the MANY repeats of that 5.4 route on Gwall at the quarries (which you took pics of one ascent).

I don't think it's a crutch, or a cop-out, but neither do I think it replaces actual leading as a training tool. I think it's a good method that helps provide practice for certain aspects of trad leading that might be too dangerous to teach any other way.

I can say with certainty, that there will be other leads I try as mock first, to wore the moves, before trying them as trad.


jt512


Jan 2, 2005, 7:57 PM
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In reply to:
Call it what you will - mock leading, leading on TR, taking practice falls with a TR backup - what's your experience with it?

Does mock leading help more or hurt more?

Neither. It does, essentially, nothing.

In reply to:
Is it just a crutch created by guides for insurance purposes, or is it a valuable tool to ease the process of becoming a true leader?

The former. I wonder how many certified guides learned to lead by mock leading.

In reply to:
Wave of the future, or temporary fad?

Again, neither. Commercial guides have been doing this for years, and will continue to do so to because that's all their insurance carriers will allow.

Anyone can learn to place gear on the ground. The crux of learning to lead is keeping your cool while climbing above your gear and taking responsibility for yourself and your partner. Placing gear on toprope does nothing wrt these skills. Teach gear placements on the ground and then have your aspiring leaders lead extremely easy pitches while placing their own gear.

-Jay


dirtineye


Jan 2, 2005, 8:02 PM
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As far as I can tell, the jury is still out on "mock leading" (which is *exactly* what you're talking about, even if dirt doesn't like to call it that).

I don't believe it helps, but I'm also not yet sure it hurts.


GO

Call it mock leading if you want, but what I was suggesting is is not mock leading, but more safe falling on gear and testing gear placments.

I give up on that stegosaurus healyj, he'll never get what I was talkling about.

In mock leading I don't think the goal would be to fall on a lot of your pro and see if it held, which is what I was suggesting in that ohter thread.

My thoughts were more in tune with falling practice, another idea that I am sure galls many people.


davidji


Jan 2, 2005, 8:17 PM
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If you take any outdoor leading classes this is how you will learn.
Not true. We led on gear in the class I took.

Mock leading seems a little silly to me, except for kids, and for people who aren't serious about climbing. From reading this thread though, it seems that a lot of people like it. That's fine with me. If you want to do it, go right ahead. If you did it, and you think it was great, that's cool too.

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