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jhwnewengland
Jun 12, 2002, 6:06 PM
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I have a question about tick lists, but first of all I'd like to state that I climb for fun, not to compile a tick list. Just to avoid all those responses that don't answer the question and instead pass judgement.
So, I only add sport climbs I've led with no falls to my ticklist, or boulder problems I've done start to finish. Obviously. My question is about trad, as there seems to be a grey area here. For example, if a pair does a four pitch climb swinging leads, have they "done" the climb? Even though each only led half of it? If someone follows an entire climb, effectively being on toprope the entire way, has he "done" it?
I'm very curious about this, so I'd like to hear what people think. Doesn't have to be a "right" answer... I think this is more a question of ethics than of right and wrong.
jan
[ This Message was edited by: jhwnewengland on 2002-06-12 11:06 ]
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espinosa
Jun 12, 2002, 6:11 PM
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i personally think it depends on the person and what they feel is right.
setting different goals for yourself would make the difference.
to each their own???
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kriso9tails
Jun 12, 2002, 6:20 PM
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I'd probably tick it. As you said, it's for fun not for bragging rights, so it marks your personal accomplishment. At that point it's a team effort, so as a team you can claim victory... unless you climbed the pitches that were 5.6 and your partner did the cruxy 5.12 pitch. I guess it's a case by case judgement call. I put down a route that I sent in my profile under most recent climbs even though I led the first and third pitches, and seconded the second.
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killclimbz
Jun 12, 2002, 6:22 PM
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I would consider it ticked. Lynn Hill did have to free the entire Nose to get a redpoint of it. So I guess you would have to lead every pitch clean to get an official tick. Sounds like a hassle to me.
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jt512
Jun 12, 2002, 6:23 PM
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A multi-pitch climb is a team effort. Swinging leads is an accepted ascent style. I think I would record the ascent as "swung leads" or "led even pitches onsight."
-Jay
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radistrad
Jun 12, 2002, 6:26 PM
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I'll tick anything I climb, TR or lead. if I've climbed it I've climbed it. This is personal preference...
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natec
Jun 12, 2002, 6:36 PM
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I'm with Rad, if I have climbed it I climbed it. I usually just make a note in my journal or guidebook as to how I climbed it.
TR= Top Rope
TL= Trad Lead
TS= Trad Second
SL= Sport Lead
And on a few rare occasions I make notes of when I have almost completed a climb but need to do it in better style...HD= Hang Dog.
I climb for myself and I usually dont get total satisfaction out of a climb until I have lead the crux pitch on multi pitch climbs.
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kerouac
Jun 12, 2002, 6:49 PM
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You say your question is about trad??? Why?? What if you are doing a multi-pitch sport route? They do exist.
As for the rest i'll agree with natec. If you climbed it, you climbed it! Just state how you climbed it.
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dondiego
Jun 12, 2002, 6:52 PM
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Honestly I have never even written down anything that I have climbed. To me, if you went up it without a winch, then you should feel proud of yourself.
-Don Diego-
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elvislegs
Jun 12, 2002, 7:08 PM
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Well ... er ... unghm... According to the official Gumby Adult Association of America Climbing Kinsmen, (or GAAACK), rule book; section four, item five, subpoint b, part two... in order to have claimed you have "climbed" something you must climb it upside down without the use of you left foot in under twenty seven minutes per pitch...
Or maybe it's a personal thing. I say whatever your comfortable with go with that.
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jhwnewengland
Jun 12, 2002, 7:13 PM
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Thanks a lot guys, it was good to hear all your ideas. I do note every climb I get on, and how I did it.... TR (didn't make it up) is a common one when I'm climbing with my 5.12 leading friends! The question was more about what constitutes a "free climb."
So to officially free climb a route you need to lead every pitch with no falls, but I agree that swinging leads is good enough for me (i.e. I wouldn't feel I had left the route "incomplete" like I would if I had to hang on a sport route or something).
And as for the multi-pitch sport routes, you're right they do exist. However, when I sport climb I tend to be either leading everything or not leading at all for some reason. Anyway, thanks to everyone for your replies, I'm much obliged.
jan
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jt512
Jun 12, 2002, 7:17 PM
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Quote:So to officially free climb a route you need to lead every pitch with no falls...
I disagree. When an aid route is eventually "freed," it is ususally a team of 2 climbers who "free" it, and one climber does not lead every pitch.
-Jay
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jhwnewengland
Jun 12, 2002, 7:22 PM
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OK, that makes sense JT. Lynn Hill freed the nose ALONE, then.
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jhwnewengland
Jun 12, 2002, 7:23 PM
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Although, the ROUTE is freed when any number of climbers climb it without aid, but have all of those climbers then done the route free? That's the question.
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feelio
Jun 12, 2002, 7:45 PM
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This is kind of a silly topic. basically I don't think you can say you ticked route until you've lead it. "leading is climbing"-Chuck Pratt.As far as multipitch, if your team gets up it, you did it.
but I understand the desire for "ticklists", especially when visiting new areas. This is how I do it. In the book I put circles next to routes I would like to do. An X in teh circle means I have lead it no falls. A slash through it means I have tr'd or hung on lead but got up it. I go back and add another slash to make the X once I have lead it no falls. just my way of keeping track of routes I have done, and routes I aspire to. Also if I roll into an area, it is a quick way for me to figure out what is in my range. basically i am a dork, who will sit reading guides when i can't climb, putting circles next to routes I want to do.
[ This Message was edited by: feelio on 2002-06-12 12:46 ]
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feelio
Jun 12, 2002, 7:47 PM
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This is kind of a silly topic. basically I don't think you can say you ticked route until you've lead it. "leading is climbing"-Chuck Pratt.As far as multipitch, if your team gets up it, you did it.
but I understand the "ticklist". this is how I do it for me. I put circles next to routes I would like to do. An X in teh circle means I have lead it no falls. A slash through it means I have tr'd or hung on lead but got up it. I go back and add another slash to make the X once I have lead it no falls. just my way of keeping track of routes I have done, and routes I aspire to. Also if I roll into an area, it is a quick way for me to figure out what is in my range. basically i am a dork, who will sit reading guides when i can't climb, putting circles next to routes I want to do.
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natec
Jun 12, 2002, 8:57 PM
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I like the circles and x's idea. That's a good one feelio. One thing I forgot to mention is that in most guidebooks, the credit for the first ascent on multi-pitch routes goes to the person who lead the crux pitch. Her partners will be listed secondary. This would also be another way of deciding whether or not you consider the route completed.
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jt512
Jun 13, 2002, 12:43 AM
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I like the 0-/-X system, but it lacks a way to distinguis redpoints from on-sights. Maybe you could color in the circle if you on-sighted it?
-Jay
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feelio
Jun 13, 2002, 1:14 AM
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I guess, i am not too worried about the redpoint /flash thing. I can usually remember anyway. Come to think of it I just put a slash for a clean TR or follow, and an X for lead. if I had to hang on lead, it gets nothing. whatever...just dork shit.
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tygereye
Jun 13, 2002, 8:23 AM
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If you've climbed a route, you've climbed it. I don't have a physical "ticklist" but I do remember those routes that I didn't lead without any falls and when I get back there, I normally try to improve on my previous attempts.
Just ennjoy what you're doing!
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