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lambone
Jan 6, 2005, 6:27 AM
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jeeze someone throw me a bone here!
mid winter duldrums and to much time at the flat screen is really wearin on my creativity...
what's up with this forum? why no action?
somebody ask a freakin question or tell a story or somethin, jeeze!
moderators, come on, get busy...stoke up the fire around here!
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bringmedeath
Jan 6, 2005, 6:43 AM
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well I do need to know how to dock my haulbag easier than just useing a sling. I have heard there are better ways...
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holdplease2
Jan 6, 2005, 7:12 AM
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Mr. Death:
You are too easy.
Take a 10 foot piece of accessory cord, maybe 7 mil. and put a figure 8 on a bight on one end. (or a 20 foot piece of cord doubled up and girth hitched)
Girth hitch this to your haul bag locker or the same strap on the haul bag to provide redundancy to your locker.
When the bag gets to the station tie a Munter Mule (or similar load release knot) with this cord to a locker on your powerpoint.
BACKUP this knot with the haul line into a powerpoint BEFORE releasing the bag onto this knot and freeing your hauling device.
One alternative to this is if you are using a lower-out line, tie the munter mule with the lower-out line and you are ready to go.
After the leader has tensioned the haul line and is ready to haul, simply reease the load-release knot and lower the weight of the bags onto the haul line.
This is adapted from Chongo, PTPP and probably others and is basically referred to as a "docking tether"
-Kate.
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climbsomething
Jan 6, 2005, 7:20 AM
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In reply to: jeeze someone throw me a bone here! mid winter duldrums and to much time at the flat screen is really wearin on my creativity... what's up with this forum? why no action? somebody ask a freakin question or tell a story or somethin, jeeze! moderators, come on, get busy...stoke up the fire around here! |
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lambone
Jan 6, 2005, 7:30 AM
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I like the Fish's method of docking the pig. Just take a ratty tie-off and clip it to the bolt, when it comes time to lower out the bag, just bash it with yer hammer and whatch that fat f'cker fly!
roughneck style, just like sendin' them pigs out to feed back on the farm with a good smack on the ASS aaaarrrrggghhhh!!!!
ok, so that reminds me of a story...one I have posted before, but what the hell I'll post it again.
so my buddy and I are groveling our way up the Tripple Direct, and after 4 or 5 days, finnaly doing the traverse over to the Nose from the Muir Wall. There are a couple of few big traversy pitches in there, nothing hard but kind of funky and not super obvious like most pitches on the route. So anyway I finish the pitch and radio down to j-dog to lower out the bags.... nice and slow with his belay device.
We didn't know the munter system back then, so I'm up there watching him try to wrestle the damn pig of the daisy chain we had it clipped in with. Finnaly he gets it off the anchor and I see him holding on to the lower out line, but I could tell he ignored my advice to rig the belay device. you see at that point we were pretty much sick of eachothers free advice and did just about the opposite of what the other said.
so he's sitting there getting pulled off the belay ledge by the 200lb pigs trying desperately, as hard as he can to grip this little 7mil line...until eventualy he just gives up and lets them fly, swinging in a huge 100ft pendulum.
so they rocket across the wall toward me...but down, and I imediately think of a story that some friend once told me:
[interlude] "So, yeah we had this total epic on the Nose when my partner decided not to lower out the bags and they shot across the wall into a dihedral and all our water bottles busted at once!" [end]
and I'm thinking, goddammmit that is about to be us! And yep, wouldn't you know it, SLAM poor Miss Piggy...(she's been so abused over the years, oh if she could only talk)...crashes into the corner with a dull thudding whack.
I expect her to burst like a gaint water balloon. But no....that didn't happen. But something did happen (Miss Piggy is WAY tougher then any of us)...."Wait, whats that white thing?" as a small round white feathery thing goes floating down the wall below.
I run a mental scan of our inventory trying to rememebr what the hell is white...when it hits me...THE POOP TUBE!!!!!!!
Hmmm...well that's odd. Whats going to happen next? And before I could process the question in my head the first bag is jetosined out of the bottom of the tube. Then a pause...then the next one, pause, then the next....and so on, five days worth X 2 guys with w/a food bag full of Stagg Chilly. Oh, it was so grim. :oops:
Like depth charges being launched off the back of a destroyer they float down through the abyss...headed for lord only knows which poor unsuspecting inoscent soul struggling with the lower pitches of the Nose.
I barely manage to contain my fury and embarresment, too exhausted at that point to even yell at my dumbass friend (who is one of the best partners ever...by-the-way). The day trudges on, and later that evening as we pitch our ledge under the stars, completely silent, too disturbed, annyoed and just plain sick of eachother to speak a word...we seperately ponder the unimaginable epic that we quite possibly had caused some poor bastard that day. You can only imagine, just don't imagine for too long.
In the morning we had no option but to whip out the duct tape and refurbish a new bottom to the pipe bomb, and hope we didn't cause anymore distruction to the beautiful climb we were lucky enough to be toping out on. needless to say, j-dog won the honnor of carrying the jerry-rigged shit-tube on the way down.
the morale, use lots of glue...and allways bring yer duct tape.
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holdplease2
Jan 6, 2005, 7:49 AM
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Thats how we lower out the third climber in a party of three for jugging, works great!
Wanna come along? ;)
-Kate.
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johnhenry
Jan 6, 2005, 4:14 PM
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Man, I think the docking tether is old school and takes way to much time...
Following some suggestions by others, I went to Wal-mart and bought two 8 foot 1300lbs rated cam buckles for less than ten bucks. You can dock your pig with one in about one second. (Be sure to back it up)
The crux is getting the steel hook off each end. If you try this $5 solution, you will shave minutes off of each pitch.
Cheers,
john
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chalkfree
Jan 6, 2005, 4:28 PM
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Whilst speaking of quick ways to lower bays I'm reminded of a camping experience of mine. Needless to say this was at a point when I had pretty much reached the end of my provebial rappel line. So this one morning on a trip days into the wilds, we've been sloggin through horizontal rain and paddling in lightning, because the gods forsaken leader feels the need to get to someplace in a bloody hurry, anyhow we get up sometime a few hours before dawn, its raining again and the wind kicks up, bad sign. But i was feeling annoyed so I went to get breakfast, the foodpack happens to be about 25 ft up in a whitepine, and the damn knot is untieable and some jerk, namely our leader tells me to hurry up with the breakfast. So I cut the line. A ninety pound pack crashes to the ground with a satifying thump, doing little or no damage to the contents, but informing the whole camp of the mood I was in.
We got a layover day, and I went back to bed for my timeout.
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iamthewallress
Jan 6, 2005, 6:30 PM
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1. What do you do to minimize piece-wiggling and leverage when getting high in your steps. For example, on flared cams or crappy hooks where wiggling invites the peice to eject but the next placement is reachy, how do you get high without levering out too much on your piece/daisy?
2. When using aline aiders or other aiders w/o spreader bars, do you have any tricks feet in the top steps when you can't reach down and grab it with your hand to open up the step.
3. Do you save your favorite foods for a summit banquet celebration or do you gnosh on the crappy left overs that you couldn't stomach while on the wall?
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flamer
Jan 6, 2005, 6:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Man, I think the docking tether is old school and takes way to much time... i don't wanna sound like a dick, but that sounds like a horrable idea. i really don't think you could make it easier than a docking tether, its just a line and a munter hitch. how much easier does it get? not to mention that its not another piece of gear and requires no movign parts.
I agree with john.
I've been using my old Adjustable daisy chains from yates for awhile now.
They work awesome, take less time and are considerably less hassle than the docking tether......hell even that jack off Pete decided they would work well....there's an old post about it somewhere....you'll have to read the entire post, it's quite funny actually pete tries to knock it (even linking it from another post), then finally has to eat crow!!
John's idea about using the cam buckles available for 5 bucks is a good one....
I don't, however, understand why you have trouble getting the hook off the anchor??? I use a Krab where your hook would be located and have yet to have trouble getting it off....make sure the weight is being lift by the haul first, then push the magic button and voile'!!
josh
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holdplease2
Jan 6, 2005, 7:04 PM
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Huh JH,
About one in 20 times I clove hitch my docking tether instead of muntering it (creates a huge cluster, I know, I'm a moron, but it happens). Also on a super-heavy bag, for some reason the munter mule will occasionally develop a kink and not release without a huge fight.
I may just try your suggestion on the next wall, John Henry.
Thanks,
-Kate.
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holdplease2
Jan 6, 2005, 7:07 PM
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Oh yeah...flamer - he means getting the hook off of the tie-down for use as a tether, tie downs come with hooks that must be removed first.
And I climbed once with a guy who used a gri-gri on the tail of his haul line as a docking system. This drove me nuts, but it did work. He refuse to use a knot, and believe it or not, did not know a single load release knot. But he's managed to climb about 15 walls in the last few years, so whatever, I guess.
-Kate.
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imnotclever
Jan 6, 2005, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: Oh yeah...flamer - he means getting the hook off of the tie-down for use as a tether, tie downs come with hooks that must be removed first. -Kate.
The secret is first scrape off the plastic and then torque the eye hole enough to let the webbing slip off. I used a pair of bars (1/2” diameter, 3’ long) to do the torquing – scary fun! I'm sure there are better ways.
In reply to: Now the trick is to get the metal hooks off of each end. This can be done. After taking your knife and scarping away the plastic around the hook's eye you'll notice that the eye is not welded to the rest of the hook. All you have to do is take the 1/2" diameter pipe from your pipe clamps and stick it in the eye hole and torque the eye open enough to allow the webbing to slip off. Volla, instant adjustable daisy.
Flamer, I used Volla there too. (spelled wrong though)
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flamer
Jan 6, 2005, 8:14 PM
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In reply to: Oh yeah...flamer - he means getting the hook off of the tie-down for use as a tether, tie downs come with hooks that must be removed first.
I'm an idiot. I just reread his post...it's all clear to me now.
In the post i mentioned earlier, I suggested that haul bag manufacturer's should consider adding a cam buckle to the bag's, for getting it on and off the anchor. Russ walling came back and said that not only did he use the adjustable's , he was planning on incorporating them in some of his haulbag design's(not that I'm claiming he got the idea from me...I think we both came up with the idea seperatly as a result of our experience's)
The one thing everybody who's against it seems to get hung up with is traversing and severly overhanging pitch's involviong lower out's.
The truth is it works the same....tie a munter or whatever you use to lower out...then release the buckle so it weights the lower out....then Voile'!!(my favorite word today).
In any case you should all try it....
josh
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stone_monkey
Jan 6, 2005, 9:16 PM
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In reply to: then Voile'!!(my favorite word today). In any case you should all try it.... josh |
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lambone
Jan 6, 2005, 10:27 PM
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some of these last posts seem to be incorporating BOTh a docking teather and releasable daisy chain to get the simple job of cutting the bags loose done.
WHY? :?
The docking tether is a peice of cake, and a simple load releasing knot like the munter-mule should be a trick in every bigwallers bag, you may rely on it to save yer ass someday.
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flamer
Jan 6, 2005, 11:37 PM
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In reply to: some of these last posts seem to be incorporating BOTh a docking teather and releasable daisy chain to get the simple job of cutting the bags loose done. WHY? :? The docking tether is a peice of cake, and a simple load releasing knot like the munter-mule should be a trick in every bigwallers bag, you may rely on it to save yer ass someday.
I doesn't incorporate both.
The only time you would even come close is for a big lower out...and then all you are doing is using a munter hitch on your lower out line to lower out the bags....NO DOCKING TETHER IS USED.....
You should seriously try this lambone, it works so damn good.
Oh and sorry frenchy!! Didn't mean to step on your fried toes....
josh
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lambone
Jan 6, 2005, 11:45 PM
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oh, I belive it works. But if the pitch traverses or over hangs much it would seem you'd need a reeeeally long daisy before it was un-tensioned?
I just don't see why spend 25 bucks or whatever when I have a crapy piece of 10mil cut up gym rope that works just fine.
being able to tie a munter-mule in 2 seconds without thinking about it is a valuable skill, take an intensive self-rescue class and you'll see why. And the way I see it...docking the pig with one is just extra practice.
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flamer
Jan 6, 2005, 11:50 PM
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In reply to: oh, I belive it works. But if the pitch traverses or over hangs much it would seem you'd need a reeeeally long daisy before it was un-tensioned? I just don't see why spend 25 bucks or whatever when I have a crapy piece of 10mil cut up gym rope that works just fine.
It doesn't take a long daisy...all you need is the lower out line you were going to use anyway....and you can do it for 5 bucks...
josh
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lambone
Jan 7, 2005, 12:03 AM
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so there you go again, using both a lower out line and an extra fancy daisy chain.
why not just use the lower-out line and tie a freakin knot that takes half a second? when it comes time to cut the bag loose your munter is allready rigged, just pop the mule and let her go!
too much extra crap to carry down off El Cap already, let alone another extra daisy chain (heavy one at that) which has only one purpose.
just my opinion, suit yerself.
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jeep4evr
Jan 7, 2005, 12:23 AM
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In reply to: what's up with this forum? why no action? somebody ask a freakin question or tell a story or somethin, jeeze!
this one time, at climbing camp, this chick stuck some 'biners on her rack, and it was *so* hot!
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jeep4evr
Jan 7, 2005, 12:29 AM
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In reply to: what's up with this forum? why no action? somebody ask a freakin question or tell a story or somethin, jeeze!
this one time, at climbing camp, this chick stuck some 'biners on her rack, and it was *so* hot!
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flamer
Jan 7, 2005, 2:12 AM
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In reply to: so there you go again, using both a lower out line and an extra fancy daisy chain. why not just use the lower-out line and tie a freakin knot that takes half a second? when it comes time to cut the bag loose your munter is allready rigged, just pop the mule and let her go! too much extra crap to carry down off El Cap already, let alone another extra daisy chain (heavy one at that) which has only one purpose. just my opinion, suit yerself.
So you use your lower out line instead of a "docking tether"???
Personally I just use the haul line to lower out the bags....
And I'm willing to bet I carry alot less stuff the *most* of the wall climbers out there....one more daisy(that could work as a back up) isn't much heavier than 20 ft of 10mil.
I've tried both ways...and I know what works best...have you tried both?
josh
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lambone
Jan 7, 2005, 2:17 AM
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this is funny...to continue it...
no I don't use both a docking tether and a lower out line. they are one in the same. My docking teather/lower-out line is 30ft of 10 mil chord. I like the thicker diameter because it's easier to manage.
If the pitch requires a huge lower-out then I will improvise and use the excess slack in the haul line.
I do want to try some of those cool looking Yates daisies, but for climbing, not managing Miss Piggy.
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