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popol
Jan 8, 2005, 1:17 PM
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Don't know where to ask it, so I try this forum.
Did anyone already drytool El Cap or other "aid" big walls? Is it even allowed to drytool these routes?
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j_ung
Jan 8, 2005, 1:29 PM
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Happy troooollllllsss to you,
Until we meet again...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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anykineclimb
Jan 8, 2005, 2:40 PM
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Its just the same as hooking. right? :wink:
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popol
Jan 8, 2005, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: Happy troooollllllsss to you, Until we meet again... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Feared this would be the response. However, this is no troll. Here in Belgium there's a fierce discussion going on about drytooling on sport routes. Some say it could be admitted on aid routes, so I try to find out if it ever happened before in the mekka of aid climbing - and if it's even allowed there.
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alpinestylist
Jan 8, 2005, 5:15 PM
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Ive heard that Sean Isaac had big plans to drool up the shield. The Hallucinogen wall "went" with a bit of drooling.
Sadly, its only a matter of time.
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flamer
Jan 8, 2005, 6:30 PM
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Didn't Beyer tie off an axe then use it grappeling hook style on Martyr's brigade??
josh
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crackmd
Jan 8, 2005, 6:36 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Happy troooollllllsss to you, Until we meet again... :lol: :lol: :lol: Feared this would be the response. However, this is no troll. Here in Belgium there's a fierce discussion going on about drytooling on sport routes. Some say it could be admitted on aid routes, so I try to find out if it ever happened before in the mekka of aid climbing - and if it's even allowed there.
Dry-tooling is already quite the controversial topic. Why not ask how dry-tooling is accepted on some lower profile crags; not the icon of American climbing, El Cap. The way you presented your thread was in fact a troll whether you admit it or not. Peace.
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slavetogravity
Jan 8, 2005, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: Dry-tooling is already quite the controversial topic. Why not ask how dry-tooling is accepted on some lower profile crags; not the icon of American climbing, El Cap.
Given the long and insane history of El Cap climbing I can't see why something as "controversial" as routes going free via dry tooling will not occur. Climbers have pulled off shenanigans and stunts much more ridiculous and contrived on that rock face over the years. When climbers, or human beings for that matter, are faced withe the questions of "can we", or "should we". History shows that caution is thrown to the wind and people go out to see if it they can.
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phatcat
Jan 8, 2005, 8:25 PM
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In reply to: ... as routes going free. via dry tooling...
wait, hold on a second...
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flamer
Jan 8, 2005, 10:31 PM
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In reply to: Good question. It's on a lot of people's minds as mixed routes become more interesting to climbers. I checked the NPS website and found nothing specifically stating "dry tooling not allowed." If you read over the page, the biggest request is follow "minimum impact" guidelines. I'd guess that as long as the pick didn't scar the rock it should be allowable.
Now martha....don't you think this was silly???
josh
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dangle
Jan 9, 2005, 1:05 AM
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Dry tooling is free? I guess that means there's no charge for spectators.
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epic_ed
Jan 9, 2005, 2:24 AM
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It sure as hell isn't free. Those tools are expensive!
I'm not aware of any route on the Cap'n that list an ice ax as part of the recommended gear list but a couple of climbers (Jared Ogden one of them) did an ascent of ?? somewhere in Colorado. Alpinist published the story a couple of months ago. Not sure about any resulting major debate about dry tooling that resulted from it, though.
Ed
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dangle
Jan 9, 2005, 3:14 AM
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Berg heil, Ed. I did say spectators.
And for those of you that didn't recognize that I was shamelessly plaigirizing the great Tom Patey I have great pity.
I won't even attempt to count how many books on climbing that I have truly enjoyed but One Man's Mountains is hands down unquestionably the best. I read Patey's articles in Mountain World even before his tragic death in a rappelling accident in '71. Had he lived he no doubt would be a climbing icon.
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flamer
Jan 9, 2005, 5:49 AM
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In reply to: It sure as hell isn't free. Those tools are expensive! I'm not aware of any route on the Cap'n that list an ice ax as part of the recommended gear list but a couple of climbers (Jared Ogden one of them) did an ascent of ?? somewhere in Colorado. Alpinist published the story a couple of months ago. Not sure about any resulting major debate about dry tooling that resulted from it, though. Ed
It was the Hallucinogen wall in the Black canyon.
Jared Ogden and Ryan Nelson were the climbers.
The debate raged here for awhile if you want to look it up...
Also on some other site's, as well as with quite a few Co. locals...
Nelson published an article in one of the mags awhile ago...What I got from it was he didn't really consider it free per se...but a step closer than actually aiding....
josh
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popol
Jan 9, 2005, 11:08 AM
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I can imagine that it's a step between clean aid and free climbing, because of the higher reach ..?
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alpinestylist
Jan 9, 2005, 4:10 PM
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s'up flamey!
Whats the diff between a cam hook and a pick torque? The very first dayz I ever went m-climbing i was like...cool, this is like "free" hooking.
My no worth 2 cents on "validity"...if your in the mountains and there are no mags, internet chatrooms, spray or easy means of escape...
Does dry tooling/free climbing enable you to move faster/safer/more efficiently?
Answer for yourself.
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edge
Jan 9, 2005, 4:32 PM
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So, if you are alone in Fontainbleu, is it OK to chisel holds so that you can top out more efficiently?
Or maybe in Hueco, if you can lower a climb to your level so that you can claim a tick, that's cool too, huh?
Placing a cam hook or sky hook on a delicate flake on an established aid pitch is much different than torquing on one with a lever-arm afforded by a mixed climbing tool.
Emphasis on the word tool.
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alpinestylist
Jan 9, 2005, 6:10 PM
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laughing my fuqin ass off...
Fountainbleu eh? Obviously the essence of "in the mountains" missed you friend. Didnt some crazy frog just crowbar that place? Maybe he was really training for the Eiger
Heuco Tanks, eh?
Your quote " Or maybe in Hueco, if you can lower a climb to your level so that you can claim a tick, that's cool too, huh? "
Ever talk with Todd Skinner about Heuco???? Thats EXACTLY what he did on numerous occassions.
How exactly is pick torquing different than cam hooking? Seriously, please explain the physics behind your statement, im no genius, but the applied load seem at least similiar? Maybe not, please flame and explain.
What El Cap routes do you have to look for the "spot" to hook? Few that I've climbed, usually the flakes are worked in with the hook trench. edges? Worn right in, kinda like a mixed route. WOW!!!!
If you wanna be a circus act and drool up JDI, realization, or Flex Luthor, or the Shield thats your schtick, expect some heat.
I live in Colorado, and have friends that go to a place called "Sports Park" because it is an ethics freezone and drool, A lot of thought went into "why" to do this there. I bet no thought crossed his mind while doing this on the trango tower last summer...hence my statement "in the mountain."
Have fun bouldering, I dont think you need any tools but yourself.
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edge
Jan 9, 2005, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: laughing my fuqin ass off... How exactly is pick torquing different than cam hooking? Seriously, please explain the physics behind your statement, im no genius, but the applied load seem at least similiar? Maybe not, please flame and explain.
In reply to: Emphasis on the word tool.
Wow, you really don't get it, do you? I am amazed at human ignorance.
Oh, and Physics 101 is why an ice axe is different than a cam hook. That's physics with a "ph", not an "f", by the way.
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alpinestylist
Jan 10, 2005, 4:14 AM
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Does any of that last post make sense to anyone else?
Honestly? Edge, climb more post less.
Human ignorance...just another masshole
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flamer
Jan 10, 2005, 5:51 AM
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In reply to: s'up flamey! Whats the diff between a cam hook and a pick torque? The very first dayz I ever went m-climbing i was like...cool, this is like "free" hooking. My no worth 2 cents on "validity"...if your in the mountains and there are no mags, internet chatrooms, spray or easy means of escape... Does dry tooling/free climbing enable you to move faster/safer/more efficiently? Answer for yourself.
Nada bro!
I also felt the "free" hooking vibe....it was defiantly more fun than standing in aiders....
A problem i see with the discussion here?? Too many folks who don't know what they're talking about.......
Before anybody gets all excited.... I mean no disrespect ...we should all consider what we know, and what we don't....then think can I really share and give opinion's on something I have little knowledge of??
Something we could all strive to do in life as well as climbing....
josh
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