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lambone
Jan 7, 2005, 8:04 AM
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I'm with the auto-block below the device camp.
it isn't allways nescesary, but anytime things are intense, it's a good idea.
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danielweed
Jan 7, 2005, 2:48 PM
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thanks alot for the advice...i guess it is like wearing a seat belt because you dont really think youl need one, it allways happens to the other guy. but the other guy could be me.
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el_jerko
Jan 8, 2005, 1:02 AM
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Johnnord,
You are probably right; maybe I shouldn’t responds to bigmouths. The problem is that my aim is to provide information and for what ever reason these tools are claiming that the information is wrong, which is isn’t, confusing anyone who is trying to learn something. I am not just talking about my posts, these same guys are saying the same thing to everyone: “You are a noob and don’t know what you are talking about, this should not be discussed on the internet or someone will be killed, this thread should be locked.” When someone argues with this dire analysis they respond with a person attack or twist the meaning of the post and give an obvious misinterpretation. And I already did respond to the original AUTOBLOCK BELOW THE DEVICE post and received some sort of good post rating for my effort. Meanwhile these guys are telling me I am “arrogant noob.” I was thinking this site is a lost cause, but I have noticed that the last few posts of this thread have only received positive feedback. Perhaps calling the spades spades has helped.
Curt,
How long or how hard I have been climbing is irrelevant. The question is whether I know what I am talking about. You should judge by my post, not by whether or not I have climbed the longest or the hardest. A person could conceivably climb for 50 years at a high level and still not know how to best do many things. Or more likely he could know what he was taking about and still tell someone they are wrong just to stroke his ego. I do not doubt that JTV3 has been climbing a long time and is a very experienced sport climber. I do doubt that he has ever used a rap backup, but that is beside the point. The point is he was telling me I was wrong when I wasn’t, you can decide for yourself whether he knows he’s wrong or not.
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wa_hoo
Jan 8, 2005, 3:02 AM
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So I'm the nooB that started this thread, and while I agree it's gotten a little technical as of late, I also want to say that this is really helpful. It's important for us nooB's to realize how complex climbing can be and this thread shows that. Of course straight forward rappelling can be learned safely with supervision.
I appreciate the reminder of how careful we each should be with what we really know and think we know. Clearly (now) there are lots of situations to consider and I know I will be even more aware of that as I venture more outside this summer.
p.s. - I just arranged to get a rappelling and sport anchor set-up/cleaning lesson by a certified guide both in that gym with the 20' ledge with chains on it and then a half day outside with her!!! I 'm so excited! I can't wait until it warms up!
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jt512
Jan 8, 2005, 4:06 AM
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In reply to: The question is whether I know what I am talking about.
That question has been settled.
-Jay
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dirtineye
Jan 8, 2005, 4:56 AM
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In reply to: So I'm the nooB that started this thread, and while I agree it's gotten a little technical as of late, I also want to say that this is really helpful. It's important for us nooB's to realize how complex climbing can be and this thread shows that. Of course straight forward rappelling can be learned safely with supervision. I appreciate the reminder of how careful we each should be with what we really know and think we know. Clearly (now) there are lots of situations to consider and I know I will be even more aware of that as I venture more outside this summer. p.s. - I just arranged to get a rappelling and sport anchor set-up/cleaning lesson by a certified guide both in that gym with the 20' ledge with chains on it and then a half day outside with her!!! I 'm so excited! I can't wait until it warms up!
Good for you Wa_hoo. I have a feeling it will be money well spent. All the AMGA giudes I know are outstanding.
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danpayne
Jan 8, 2005, 5:46 AM
Post #107 of 127
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In reply to: Curt, How long or how hard I have been climbing is irrelevant. The question is whether I know what I am talking about.
In reply to: So dude I call, lay your cards down so to speak and list your climbing resume right here. I want to know exactly what it is that makes you think you are so much smarter than everyone else is.
Didn't you ask JT512 what experience gave him the right to give advice?
You said, "Lay em Down, what makes you qualified" So when you see you don't have the winning hand, why do you tell people the poker game is irrelevant??
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el_jerko
Jan 8, 2005, 4:49 PM
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Danpayne,
No not exactly. I think experience and training enable someone to give usful advice. But how long someone has been climbing and how hard they climb does not translate to training or experience. As I said in a previous post I took a sport climbing friend on his first trad climb last spring and he didn’t bring his belay device with him to the first belay because it never occurred to him that he would need it. He has been climbing longer and harder than I have but he does not have the same level of technical experience. I don’t mean to keep ragging on jtv3 but when I looked at his profile he had a bunch of pictures of himself climbing sport routes (without a helmet). Seems very possible that he is a long time sport climber who has little if any experience at anything else, so I asked. Notice he didn’t answer. On the subject of belay backups, I have tried every variation I ever heard about and currently use the one that I found to work the best for me. I therefore feel that my experience would be a useful bit of information to someone interested in the subject. But I don’t think any of this has anything to do with knowledge and skills, I think it is just a big sausage party with people trying to makes themselves look good by bashing others.
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thewyseclimber
Jan 8, 2005, 7:40 PM
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In reply to: I have read that the only major advantage of having the friction knot above the belay device is that has been documented to have stopped someone from completely rappelling off the end of the roap. Basically you hit the end of the roap, it slips through your brake hand and subsequently through the belay device. The friction knot loads itself and will catch you, hopefully. Beyond that it has the disadvantage of requiring your "free" hand to be on the rope to keep it sliding smoothly, if engaged the friction knot tightens up considerably more above the belay device than below it, and it can be a real bear to loosen once loaded. Charles
Wow...this is one I certainly haven't seen before. I guess we need to add the difficult word "rope" to the list of commonly misspelled climbing terms. Perhaps some brilliant marketing company has put out a product called "soap on a roap," but other than that, I don't see how this could be all that confusing. Anyway, thanks for a chuckle. And thanks for fixing it later in the post.
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jt512
Jan 8, 2005, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: I don’t mean to keep ragging on jtv3 but when I looked at his profile he had a bunch of pictures of himself climbing sport routes (without a helmet).
*gasp* No helmet!
In reply to: Seems very possible that he is a long time sport climber who has little if any experience at anything else, so I asked. Notice he didn’t answer.
I didn't answer because I don't owe you an answer, n00b.
-Jay
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climbsomething
Jan 8, 2005, 9:59 PM
Post #111 of 127
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In reply to: Seems very possible that he is a long time sport climber who has little if any experience at anything else, so I asked. Notice he didn’t answer.
You just keep digging that hole.
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kman
Jan 9, 2005, 1:45 AM
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Some times I back my self up some times not. If I am the first down on a multi-pitch then yes. If I am the second one down then I get a firemans. Why? Because if I am # 2 down and I get k.o.'d or what ever then it is easy for the person below to get me down with the firemans. On single pitch stuff then some times...if I feel like having one it's usually a firemans...some times a prusik (under my atc). Totally depends. If you use a prusik underneath then make sure it is short enough to not get caught up in your device.
In reply to: I understand what you are saying, but have to disagree with you. I have never spent much time on this site primarily because it has such a bad reputation for wankers
:lol: It's funny cause your the prime example of the types of wankers your talking about. Your arguing in vain with guys that have waaay more experience than you. You should be silent before you make your self look even more stupid.
Telling a person new to rappelling to start screwing around with clove hitches mid rap might not be the best advice don't you think?
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rendog
Jan 9, 2005, 2:19 AM
Post #113 of 127
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el_jerko I'd like to introduce you to jt512.
you may refer to him as EL_assholeo. I don't always agree with him, but many of his points are very well founded, opiniated, rightous, yadda ydadda yadda and that's why we all love him to a certain degree. at least begrudged respect.
jerko...you've kicked the wasp nest...have fun dealing with it man :twisted:
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1873ak
Jan 9, 2005, 6:36 AM
Post #114 of 127
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Funny thing is I mispelled it twice. What an idiot sometimes.
One thing I'll give you about this board, there's always someone very quick to point out your mistakes.
Anyway, I'll go write "Rope" at least 100 times on the blackboard so I don't do it again.
Later all,
Charles
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el_jerko
Jan 10, 2005, 5:24 PM
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JTv3 obviously has some sort of psychological disorder resulting in his need for power. I am not sure why he feels so inadequate, my guess he has a very small penis. The result is that he tries to position himself such that he will be viewed as something special. For example observe the many glory photos he has posted, and even his screen name JT “512” just so that people will know he has climbed a v3sport route. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that he fee solos moderate routes in view of the parking lot, and scoots up routes he has wired in the gym if there is a good crowd all to try and set himself above as many people as possible. The reason he does this is so that he can be in a position to abuse people. His is not driven by a love of climbing; rather he has found a group that will tolerate his self gratifying hostility. So Rendog, climbsomething etc, why do you stick up for him and make excuses for his obviously antisocial behavior? Do you envy his ability to be a total jackass and get away with it? Or do you think that being part of his posse will keep him off your back?
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jt512
Jan 10, 2005, 9:37 PM
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In reply to: JTv3 obviously has some sort of psychological disorder...
Whatever disorder I might have I am thankful it is not the stupidity that you have been consigned to suffer.
Interestingly, contrary to the myth that arguing with retards on the Internet is a waste of time, I have actually learned something in my argument with el_jerko in the thread about learning to place hexes. In thinking through my reasons for objecting to mock leading, I have found them to be essentially no different then the old trads' objections to hangdogging. Even though I learned to climb in the '80s I never really comprehended the ground-up mentality. Not that I plan to lower to the ground every time I fall, but I have a new respect for why some climbers prefer to do so.
-Jay
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danpayne
Jan 11, 2005, 8:49 AM
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In reply to: Danpayne, No not exactly. I think experience and training enable someone to give usful advice. But how long someone has been climbing and how hard they climb does not translate to training or experience.
Uhh, how long someone has been climbing doesn't translate into experience?
ex·pe·ri·ence - Active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill: a lesson taught by experience; a carpenter with experience in roof repair.
Now the follow up question,
Are you retarded?
(its ok, you can tell us)
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jt512
Jan 11, 2005, 8:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Danpayne, No not exactly. I think experience and training enable someone to give usful advice. But how long someone has been climbing and how hard they climb does not translate to training or experience. Uhh, how long someone has been climbing doesn't translate into experience? ex·pe·ri·ence - Active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill: a lesson taught by experience; a carpenter with experience in roof repair. Now the follow up question, Are you retarded? (its ok, you can tell us)
He can't tell us that which he can't recognize:
In reply to: Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments
Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University Abstract People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it....
-Jay
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danpayne
Jan 12, 2005, 8:32 AM
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JT512,
Where did you find that quote? I really enjoyed it.
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johnnord
Jan 12, 2005, 2:21 PM
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In reply to: Funny thing is I mispelled it twice. What an idiot sometimes. One thing I'll give you about this board, there's always someone very quick to point out your mistakes. Anyway, I'll go write "Rope" at least 100 times on the blackboard so I don't do it again. Later all, Charles |
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1873ak
Jan 12, 2005, 4:58 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Funny thing is I mispelled it twice. What an idiot sometimes. One thing I'll give you about this board, there's always someone very quick to point out your mistakes. Anyway, I'll go write "Rope" at least 100 times on the blackboard so I don't do it again. Later all, Charles Charles, it's ok. The OED lists "roap" as an obsolete form of "rope." So you're not an idiot, maybe just old. :wink:
Old, senile, same thing some days. I think it's directly caused by being winter locked up here. Our expected high today is -35. OH MY GOD, that's cold.
Later,
Charles
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cchildre
Jan 12, 2005, 7:52 PM
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In reply to: Do you envy his ability to be a total jackass and get away with it? Or do you think that being part of his posse will keep him off your back?
Sure we envy him! Getting away with it is the best part.
He has a posse? Where can we sign up? Yea, then we can form a gang and go out chopping bolts, cutting fixed lines, and maybe have a showdown with that computer nerd gang from Einstein and Fogelstein Engineering, they have it coming! Can we get leather jackets with our logo on the back, this will be so cool!
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el_jerko
Jan 12, 2005, 11:57 PM
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Narcissistic Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
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dirtineye
Jan 13, 2005, 12:07 AM
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Hmmm.....
the first 5 fit you rather well el_jerko, thanks for pointing that out!
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climbinginchico
Jan 13, 2005, 12:19 AM
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jerko,
As much as I may not like JT, or his attitude, I do respect the man for his knowledge. In this case you are in the wrong. The way that my disagreements with JT have ended were through factual arguments, we never resorted to personal bashing. You have, and by doing so you merely play into his game. You give him more ammunition and continue to make a larger fool of yourself with each successive post here.
Give it up for your own good. You can't win.
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