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macherry
Jan 23, 2005, 5:37 PM
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Yes, indeed! The site crashed and i was lost...................what to do with my time i usually wasted on rc.com.
Well, folks i recconnected with the real world, got my life back, and i'm no longer in need of this little virtual world
ta ta
sayanora
au revoir
adios amigos
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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slobmonster
Jan 23, 2005, 6:37 PM
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I found myself looking for gainful employment a little harder, not drinking as much each night, and spending quality time with both the dog and my girlfriend. Who would have thought?
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happiegrrrl
Jan 23, 2005, 7:28 PM
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My rc.com time was scheduled and built into my business overhead expenses. It was like a little perk I could provide myself with. Do some work, get to play. It was also an extremely useful tool in assisting me with the serious business of procrastination. I have been spending time and money at the home improvement stores in lieu of it, and this is definitely NOT within the cost structure.....It is cutting seriously into the savings I am supposed to be generating for a car, insurance and a rental place at the Gunks. This is not good.....
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charley
Jan 23, 2005, 8:45 PM
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I have been visiting some other rock climbing sites. Reading bs about rc.com. I still havefriends here that I will continue to visit. They keep saying it will get better.
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yourworstnightmare
Jan 23, 2005, 9:42 PM
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In reply to: They keep saying it will get better.
Only when certain people leave.
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philbox
Moderator
Jan 24, 2005, 6:07 AM
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In other news, due to the crash of a certain rock climbing website the GDP of the western world soared as workers once again resumed producing for their hapless employers. Stocks soared on Wall Street as this unprecedented surge in productivity occurred.
Employers around the globe have hired the very best hackers to pit their wits against the mighty Tim in a battle of Titans so that the aforementioned productivity may continue and that the website can be kept offline for as long as possible.
Tim vows to create an indestructible website that cannot ever after be brought offline. Climbers everywhere rejoiced at this announcement. Employers redoubled their efforts in the battle but it seems that the mighty Tim may well prevail.
Time will tell.
Your roving reporter Phil...
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tradman
Jan 24, 2005, 10:57 AM
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I spent some time being irritated that the site was down despite so many people having paid good money to support it.
Then, I was puzzled that nobody seems to know what's really happened to the site, and if they do then they're not telling the users, many of whom have large amounts of time invested in routes and reports submitted.
After that I reflected, as a professional web designer of some 10 years' experience, on the fact that if I was in charge of the fiasco which the front page only mentions as "recent outages" in passing, I wouldn't wait to be fired as I'd deserve, I'd resign immediately.
In the world of the web, the level of service provided is frequently lower than it should be. Many sites lack features and functions which they really should have, but this comes down to a question of the owners' creativity and technical abilities. However, at least those sites are actually available for business. When a site which people have paid to support can't even keep itself online for long enough for people to ask what's going on, serious questions should be asked.
And I'll give you one little gem of advice from my experience: if the answer to those questions is along the lines of, "well, it's nobody's fault, it's just one of those things that happens with computers" then the person giving that answer is a liar trying to cover their tracks. There are no things which "just happen" to computers if they are properly maintained. Ever. No exceptions. Problems only occur when someone can't be bothered to do their job.
So in future, rc.com, bear in mind all the hard work and money that users here have put in and at least have the basic common bloody courtesy to explain and apologise.
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climber_chick
Jan 24, 2005, 11:19 AM
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i've been flipping back and forth between http://alaskamountainforum.com and http://demonseal.net/forums waiting for a new post. it gets boring around 2am, since most everyone on those two forums are on alaska time so they all are asleep at the same time. so lame. all my other time is spent waiting for something to happen.
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unabonger
Jan 24, 2005, 1:19 PM
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In reply to: Yes, indeed! The site crashed and i was lost...................what to do with my time i usually wasted on rc.com. Well, folks i recconnected with the real world, got my life back, and i'm no longer in need of this little virtual world
As if you had a life to get back to.
See you next week!
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happiegrrrl
Jan 24, 2005, 3:36 PM
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The problem, from what I understand, is that there isn't a person being paid to dedicate their working day to maintaining the site. Tim and Eric are doing so on a volunteer basis, and they also work fulltime jobs.(Well, at least Tim does; I don't know about Eric.) From the posts I've seen on the updates, Tim has been working pretty hard to get past this glitch.
So, firing's not appropriate, and if Tim and/or Eric "resigns" - Well....then I think the site really would be in trouble.
I know I have been very vocal in voicing my concerns with the site problems. Mainly because I have gained friends in real life through this site, and am hoping to make more. The thought of losing that connection kind of sucks.
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jakedatc
Jan 25, 2005, 4:25 AM
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tradman you should read more before posting.. Tim has been putting up updates about what is wrong as soon as he can i'm sure
(plus if it's off line then u wont be able to read it anyway)
would you rather him fix the problem or take the time to explain to you allll the details of what is wrong and how he will fix it and blah blah
http://www1.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=984309
http://www1.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=984297
http://www1.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79402
Open mouth... insert foot
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macherry
Jan 25, 2005, 5:31 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Yes, indeed! The site crashed and i was lost...................what to do with my time i usually wasted on rc.com. Well, folks i recconnected with the real world, got my life back, and i'm no longer in need of this little virtual world As if you had a life to get back to. See you next week!
stop driving by my house
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tradman
Jan 25, 2005, 9:39 AM
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In reply to: tradman you should read more before posting..
So let's see, you've posted three threads.
The first is a whining self-promotion complaining about how much the site costs to run. Boo hoo, cry me a river. Again, as a professional web guy, I have a better idea than most how much revenue the pretty ads on this site raise. This thread also says there are offers to buy rc.com. Here's some advice: if the site costs so much to run and is such hard work, you should sell it straight away. We'll get better service and you can get lost and spare us your self-pity.
The second is an admission that despite the money we give and the ad revenue, somebody couldn't be bothered to put adequate security in place and the server got a virus. What did the management do with the money we gave them I wonder? They certainly didn't spend it on the site, did they?
The third is a thread in which the owner of the site attacks a paying user for expressing concern about the lack of service for his money then backtracks and apologises. A thread in which the site owner, the end recipient of the ad and member revenues, openly mocks the contributions of the users? Impressive.
Here's the facts of the matter: if I pay money for a service, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that service to be delivered. If it's not, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent explanation of why the service was not delivered, and suggestions as to how the situation will be avoided in future.
Finally and most importantly, the donation of revenues and contributions not only gives the contributors the right to expect a return, it also means that the owners and staff have no right to object when the users have a legitimate complaint.
Jakedatc, I see that you're not a paying member. Why don't you stop brown-nosing the management for a minute and put your money where your mouth is big guy? Until you do that, begging your creepy, arse-licking pardon, you can shove your pointless comments up your slack oozing backside.
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jakedatc
Jan 25, 2005, 1:15 PM
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hey tradman... a big fuck you buddy..
Tim does this for FREE if he resigned this whole thing would be gone gone gone..
read his posts.. they are the only ones that will describe the problem.. i should have quoted instead but it was late
Calm the FUCK down dude.. this is a WEBSITE for FUN do you freak out if Yahoo games goes down?? AHHHH I CANT PLAY BLACKJACK!!!!!!!
In reply to: Here's the facts of the matter: if I pay money for a service
you do not pay for a service.. you DONATE to group of folks to help keep hardware and software updated and running and he is busting his ass getting it back online
read tims posts... this is a HOBBY.. he has a regular job and goes to school also i believe
Michaels post in the thread you said was mocking the donations he later replied to and noted his sarcasm..
I don't have extra money to be donating here.. and do NOT have to. This is a free website and has always been that way.. donations are WELCOME but NOT REQUIRED. and with that i can say whatever the fuck i want.
I'm not brown nosing anybody.. i'm defending folks that should be working to make the improvements that you stated instead of responding to your bitching and moaning directly
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tgreene
Jan 25, 2005, 1:40 PM
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In case anyone actually cares, I just posted a rather lengthy dissertation in response to the outages lately...
It's not just here, but everywhere, and that's what I posted in regards to! ;)
http://www1.rockclimbing.com/...topic_view=&start=15
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j_ung
Jan 25, 2005, 2:11 PM
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So Tradman-web-master, if the main server is defunct and the back-up server is barely breathing, how exactly does one notify all the users of the problem? Phone calls? Telepathy? Carrier pidgeon?
Calm down, homey. It ain't worse for you than it is for anybody else.
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dontfall
Jan 25, 2005, 2:13 PM
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cant we all just get along.....
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kimmyt
Jan 25, 2005, 2:16 PM
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damn, marge, you can't leave!
i was planning on making an all-climbing, all-chicas, all-Canada trip next yizzear!
:(
k.
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j_ung
Jan 25, 2005, 2:26 PM
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In reply to: damn, marge, you can't leave! i was planning on making an all-climbing, all-chicas, all-Canada trip next yizzear! :( k.
Don't worry. I think she's already back. :D
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shakylegs
Jan 25, 2005, 2:40 PM
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Registered: Aug 20, 2001
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Hee, Tradman, when it comes to money that you've spent (albeit a measly $20), you're showing your true Scottish colours.
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cliffhanger9
Moderator
Jan 25, 2005, 2:47 PM
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For the record, Michael isnt the owner of the site. It is co-owned by mulitple people who have invested alot of time and money into it.
Tradman, you raise some valid points. However they are in comparison to a professional website. This is currently not a professional website. It is coded by volunteers and costs nothing to use. Monthly hosting services are paid for by ads. That leaves a pretty big gap when it comes to buying hardware, developing new features etc.
There are about 80-100 people who have signed up in the last few years as supporting partners. so say 90 * $20 = $1800 (spread out over a few years). As a web professional of 10 years, I m sure you know as well as I what the cost of proper server is for the amount of traffic we get. (~$1000 - we have will have three once tim is finished rebuilding them)
I know that others have donated more then the minimal amount, and many have earmarked it for certain features they would like to see. But you cant implement them when the server isnt running. first things first. patience
I disagree with your statement that nothing can ever happen to a computer that is properly maintained. It was basically a worm/virus that did us in this time. As tgreene mentioned this thing hit alot of people. Norton AV one of the most reputable softwares available for this protection didnt catch it. So then what?
There are only a few of us (about 4) that actively do stuff on the dev end of things (volunteer) - everything from sys administration, database administration, help desk requests and site support for people who dont know how to do something - and thats just to keep it running. That doesnt include the active development of new features, fixing bugs, and completely overhauling the site with a redesign to make it easier to use.
All of this done on 4 peoples free time. Free time being, time not spent with families, friends, full time jobs, school, and climbing. Just regular people like you. God forbid they get out and climb once and awhile on the weekend!!?
Not so much self pitty as much as Hey I have a life and other obilgations to attend to so I ll try my best and get what I can done - If you honestly think this unreasonable and that there is no reason someone shouldnt be working on this site 40 hours a week for very little to no pay, step on up and help out. That is the most annoying. Even more then the fact that a silly hobby website is down. The fact that people that have the skills to change something but they still complain.
Not that you dont have the right to do that...its just annoying..
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tradman
Jan 25, 2005, 2:56 PM
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Hmm, how to post a message telling folks that there's a problem... how to post a message.... on a phpbb message board.... message, message board..... web server.... wait a minute, I've got an idea. Amazing that you didn't think of it really.
Rule 1 of web service provision: if there is a problem, let everyone know that you know, and then fix it, and then after it's fixed you make sure it can never ever happen again and then you apologise. How many of the above have been done so far?
Oh and jake, my heart is breaking wide open for Tim. No really, it is. If he volunteered to administer, for free, a site which has ad and user revenue coming in, I'd suggest that he should look up the word "gullible" in the dictionary. You could hold his hand while he does that as well, since you're apparently his self-appointed best friend, public defender and lapdog/weasel.
Incompetence which affects other people's hard work and money is not something that should be tolerated in any walk of life. Perhaps your life is one of mediocrity and disappointment where rubbish service and dull-witted clowning is the norm, but mine's not. So you tell me, just because you bend over and accept whatever anyone feels like doing to you, why should we?
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tradman
Jan 25, 2005, 3:05 PM
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Wow, I'm stunned.
You're telling me that the ads on this site only pay for the hosting?
Stop me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this site get a lot of PIs? And doesn't it have a lot of users? Who's marketing this thing? It should be generating a non-stop stream of dollars night and day!
On the technical side, properly maintained servers that are treated with respect are bloody hard to break, and don't make tempting targets. And even if they do it would be considered absolutely normal for a site of this size to either be mirrored or at the very least to have a minimal failover system which showed a "sorry we're down blah blah blah" page in the event of a catastrophe.
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shakylegs
Jan 25, 2005, 3:14 PM
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In reply to: I'd suggest that he should look up the word "gullible" in the dictionary.
Sigh, how often must I repeat this? "Gullible" isn't in the dictionary.
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unabonger
Jan 25, 2005, 3:16 PM
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In reply to: Wow, I'm stunned. You're telling me that the ads on this site only pay for the hosting? Stop me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this site get a lot of PIs? And doesn't it have a lot of users? Who's marketing this thing? It should be generating a non-stop stream of dollars night and day! On the technical side, properly maintained servers that are treated with respect are bloody hard to break, and don't make tempting targets. And even if they do it would be considered absolutely normal for a site of this size to either be mirrored or at the very least to have a minimal failover system which showed a "sorry we're down blah blah blah" page in the event of a catastrophe.
Act like a man and get over it. This isn't worthy of a flamefest, so I'm not surprised that you are the one that's in a lather over it. What a load of self-righteous insulting crap you've posted over a broken website.
Please tell me you're just using this as an excuse for a lame troll on hardworking volunteers, instead of being a pathetic, whining pussy. Either way you are being lame.
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