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blown screamer on an ice screw
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glyrocks


Jan 27, 2005, 5:21 AM
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blown screamer on an ice screw
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In case anyone is interested...

Took about a 10 foot fall onto a 13cm screw that hit rock around 10cm. It was clipped to a new Sterling 9.5 with a Yates Screamer Zipper. About 1/3 of the screamer tore before I stopped. The belayer was standing on the ground and anchored to a single screw with about 6 feet of rope giving me a decent dynamic belay.

The fall was actually really fun. I kind of expected it to happen 'cause the ice was pretty brittle (and thin compared to what everyone outside NC is used to climbing) and most of the distance I fell was from the dynamic stuff (rope stretch, belay, screamer). I just sort floated down- not that I recommend falling on ice screws. But hey, at least I know shorties and screamers will hold. And no one got hurt, and the route went a couple days later.

Not sure how to post pictures in a thread but there are some pictures of the screamer, the route, and the fall in progress in my pictures.


ps. I plan on still using the screamer. 2/3 of it is still sewn. I figure it will still rip at >2kN but will have a decreased load reduction capability. Anyone have a reason not to use it?


adamwvt


Jan 27, 2005, 5:26 AM
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Re: blown screamer on an ice screw [In reply to]
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The fall was actually really fun

You lucky son of a bitch.


kman


Jan 27, 2005, 6:39 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
The fall was actually really fun

You lucky son of a b----.

Yup.


scottharms


Jan 27, 2005, 9:18 AM
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you walked away without any carnage. nice. falling on ice is my worst night mare. I bet that fall gave you some confidence in the pro......


tradklime


Jan 27, 2005, 9:28 AM
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I bet that fall gave you some confidence in the pro......

Even though it really shouldn't.

Lucky Charms for breakfast?


whatsupdoc


Jan 27, 2005, 9:51 AM
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I personally wouldn't use the screamer again. It did its job so pony up and get a new one. Hang it on the wall as a momento of your fall.


elvislegs


Jan 27, 2005, 9:54 AM
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here ya go.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=47259

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=47261

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=47257


lucky son of a bitch.


soccer_fan


Jan 27, 2005, 10:05 AM
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For someone wiht basically nill experience, is there anyway to avoid the fall pictured here? I mean if you end up on some very brittle ice do you back off? I know, technically you hope to "never fall on ice," but how does that actually work? I ask, b/c to me the ice pictured looks decent...


glyrocks


Jan 27, 2005, 10:22 AM
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Hah, maybe I was lucky. I didn't know if the screw would hold, but I hoped it would b/w the dynamic belay, screamer, and new rope. I certainly don't plan on making testing screamers a habit.

Hey, thanks for posting the pictures.

As far as avoiding that, I could have bailed. You can see a ledge in the picture that you can easily reach but I suppose the other way would have been to not swing as hard. With sharp picks you could probably get a decent placement without trying to get the whole damn pick in. I suppose that's what made the ice blow; I tried to get a deeper placement that I should have. But hey, it's hard to take a shallow placement when you feel pumped.

I plan on getting some new screamers, but figure I might as well use the semi-blown one anyway for better-than-marginal screws.


tradklime


Jan 27, 2005, 10:22 AM
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I know, technically you hope to "never fall on ice," but how does that actually work?

It comes with experience. You learn to read ice. You learn to test your placements. You learn to recognize a good placement by the sound of it, by the look of the ice. You learn body positioning when moving on sketch. You learn, you learn, you learn.

glyrocks is new to the game. And you see alot more of this these days. It is alot like sketchy trad. You take your time, progressing your skills, leading below your abilities. That's what TR is for, pushing your limits. The more people that seem to get involved with the sport, the more you see people over their heads.

glyrocks sees bragging rights. I see someone waiting to get hurt.


tradklime


Jan 27, 2005, 10:24 AM
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... 'cause the ice was pretty brittle (and thin compared to what everyone outside NC is used to climbing)

:lol: :roll:


sandbag


Jan 27, 2005, 10:38 AM
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Personally, if i was Yates, and i saw/read that you intended to reuse a blown piece of impact force reduction equipment like a screamer, i'd sue you for lack of common sense.
You lucked out, and thankfully from the pics looks to have been a minor fall in distance, but the variable are so much more endangering with the tools, the crampons and the nature of the ice itself.
Just slow down chief and learn the ropes, its not a race, its a journey, enjoy it for as long as you can.


sandbag


Jan 27, 2005, 10:40 AM
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Personally, if i was Yates, and i saw/read that you intended to reuse a blown piece of impact force reduction equipment like a screamer, i'd sue you for lack of common sense.
You lucked out, and thankfully from the pics looks to have been a minor fall in distance, but the variable are so much more endangering with the tools, the crampons and the nature of the ice itself.
Just slow down chief and learn the ropes, its not a race, its a journey, enjoy it for as long as you can.


couchwarrior


Jan 27, 2005, 10:41 AM
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glyrocks sees bragging rights. I see someone waiting to get hurt.

Actually, I see a simple low factor fall where the system worked exactly as it was designed to work. End of story. Not sure why we need to make it a referendum on the behavior of a particular climber.


adamd


Jan 27, 2005, 11:09 AM
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I'd like to think that glyrocks is a troll but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. Let's recap a series of poor decisions.

1) took a lead fall on ice
2) fell on a poorly placed screw
3) plans to reuse a half ripped screamer

Has any LEARNING actually happened?

I'd say hang the ripped screamer up somewhere as a reminder to start making better decisions. A new ice climber taking a lead fall and calling it "fun" seems pretty reckless to me.


slobmonster


Jan 27, 2005, 11:21 AM
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Sure, use the 1/3rd blown Screamer. Still better than a plain old sling. As for everyone on here giving you a fairly hard time, well, you did ask for their advice...

I'm happy you didn't get hurt in your fall, please try not to repeat, and understand that the traditional ice climbing learning curve would still have you flat-footing grade 2 ice before you EVER had an opportunity to whip off something. From your photos it looks like you could use some mileage to refine your body position when pulling over little bulges; I would suggest taking laps and laps and laps, and pumping yourself silly.

Cheers!


tradklime


Jan 27, 2005, 11:58 AM
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Not sure why we need to make it a referendum on the behavior of a particular climber.

So that noobs reading this don't get the wrong idea, hopefully.

So that maybe the orginal poster will learn something.

Despite what you may think, it's not mean spirited. I've been around two different situations when climbers have died. I've been around more when others have gotten injured. It's not fun for anyone.

These forums only have value if people learn. I'm glad to not see responses like "bitchin fall dude, way to go!" He openned himself up with the original post, and is appropriately getting a lecture.


glyrocks


Jan 27, 2005, 12:06 PM
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Hah you guys are ridiculous. Especially all the internet lingo. Sometimes reading these forums is like reading a 14 year old's email.

I've been ice climbing for three years. No, not a long time, but not brand new either. I do know I need to learn better technique, and I do laps. But leading that ice wasn't reckless. It was fun, I hope if I fall again it's still fun. It wouldn't have been fun if someone had gotten hurt; I realize that. Some of you are a little caught up in the badass image.


In reply to:
You take your time, progressing your skills, leading below your abilities. That's what TR is for, pushing your limits.

Sure, but I think pushing yourself on lead is okay too.


In reply to:
Personally, if i was Yates, and i saw/read that you intended to reuse a blown piece of impact force reduction equipment like a screamer, i'd sue you for lack of common sense

Yea, they should sue me for lack of common sense. Good one. I better warn my legal team.


In reply to:
Let's recap a series of poor decisions.

1) took a lead fall on ice
2) fell on a poorly placed screw
3) plans to reuse a half ripped screamer

Has any LEARNING actually happened?

I didn't decide to fall. I didn't get to the top and say "hey, looks like a good time to jump off." So, no, falling itself wasn't a bad decision. I also didn't decide to fall on a poorly place screw. I could have placed a better one perhaps, but clearly it wasn't too poor because IT HELD. And where did you explain why I shouldn't reuse a 1/3 blown screamer? I didn't notice any explanation in all that smoke you blew. So why is it a bad decision? Would it be a better decision to use a regular runner? No, a semi-blown screamer is better than none at all, but not as good as a new one, which I already said I was going to get.

And yes, I have learned something. Ice screws and screamers do work. I haven't made the assumption that they will always work and I would never get hurt falling. I didn't say "good thing ice screws and screamer always work; now I can run out WI6 tomorrow."

Yea I did ask for advice on the screamer. Anyone freaking out about using it again have a reason not to?


What is the wrong idea? That the systems we meticulously set up to hold our falls work?

Hah "appropriately getting a lecture." I'm okay with you thinking I was wrong in leading ice. You weren't there, you only have a picture a brief description. You probably think anyone who hasn't been climbing for 20 years doesn't have enough experience to do anything but read books on climbing. You, my friend are a duder.


tradklime


Jan 27, 2005, 12:39 PM
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You weren't there, you only have a picture a brief description.

Nope, your flippant attitude towards the fall in your original post told most of the story. Add to that some stuff in your profile.

In reply to:
You probably think anyone who hasn't been climbing for 20 years doesn't have enough experience to do anything but read books on climbing.

Not at all, but someone who doesn't know enough about good/ bad placements, and whats appropriate for the ice conditions, probably shouldn't be leading at their limits.

In reply to:
You, my friend are a duder.

Who sounds like a 14 year old???


Hey it's a free world, as long as you are having fun, go for it.


tradklime


Jan 27, 2005, 12:39 PM
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duplicate post


oldfart


Jan 27, 2005, 1:14 PM
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How about these lessons?

1) If you don't want to get second-guessed by every dumbass who's ever seen a half hour of ice climbing on the discovery channel, don't post pictures of yourself fucking up on the internet.

2) 20 years ago your lead would have been considered bold. In the LL Bean era, all it gets you is a lecture by "concerned climbers". Here's the thing. Know your audience. Nobody here really gives a shit about your safety or that of others, but by calling you an idiot they get to look authoritative in public. Most of the genuine concern on this board is reserved for whether the hat matched the jacket, and how it looked in the pictures.

3) There is thin ice outside of North Carolina. Some people even climb it.

Looked like a fun climb. Good job not sticking an ice axe through your spleen. If you don't want your ripped screamer, mail it to me.


couchwarrior


Jan 27, 2005, 1:47 PM
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In reply to:
How about these lessons?

1) If you don't want to get second-guessed by every dumbass who's ever seen a half hour of ice climbing on the discovery channel, don't post pictures of yourself f---ing up on the internet.

2) 20 years ago your lead would have been considered bold. In the LL Bean era, all it gets you is a lecture by "concerned climbers". Here's the thing. Know your audience. Nobody here really gives a s--- about your safety or that of others, but by calling you an idiot they get to look authoritative in public. Most of the genuine concern on this board is reserved for whether the hat matched the jacket, and how it looked in the pictures.

3) There is thin ice outside of North Carolina. Some people even climb it.

Looked like a fun climb. Good job not sticking an ice axe through your spleen. If you don't want your ripped screamer, mail it to me.

I wish I had said all that! Brilliant and should end this thread forthwith. Good night and drive safely, everyone!


d.ben
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Jan 27, 2005, 1:56 PM
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Re: blown screamer on an ice screw [In reply to]
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A person asks for advice.
People respond to his advice,
said person gets defensive, this displays his bruised ego.

ego + climbing = eventual injury or death, family members crying / you not getting to enjoy life anymore.

If your son or little brother or girlfriend etc. were in the situation you put yourself in and it would make you afraid than it was probably not so smart.


glyrocks


Jan 27, 2005, 2:03 PM
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Hah, duder. Don't take it too seriously. It's called mockery.



oldfart:

Heh, yea I guess you're right. I don't think I really fucked up, but I should have known people would have freak out.

And yea, the thing about thin ice was more of a crack at NC ice than anything else. Didn't mean that how it came across.


Nah, the advice I asked for was about the Screamer, which only one or two people addressed, one of which was a stupid-ass response. I didn't ask for advice on whether I should have been there in the first place. My ego is doing okay, I've got plenty of better things keeping it beat down other than some self-proclaimed internet climbing gurus.

Anyway, enough arguing with internet personalities.



shalom.


akclimber


Jan 27, 2005, 2:13 PM
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good storie and pics, dont listen to the lame, i dont read the site to read people bitchin, jus want to hear about what others have done, keep up the good work! :D

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