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mother_sheep
Jan 30, 2005, 1:07 PM
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Has anyone had any luck sharpening their own screws? How do you do it? Is there a place in CO that sharpens screws? I've got a couple that I could barely cut butter with. Thanks!
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usmc_2tothetop
Jan 30, 2005, 5:17 PM
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Nothin beats a good screw .....I had to. :roll:
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nsintros
Jan 30, 2005, 5:35 PM
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i just sharpened a couple of mine last night using a small triangular file, which actually says black diamond on the handle but i don't think its the same BD we all know and love, or love to hate. anyways i just tried to keep all the angles the same and just worked at it very slowly. i haven't used them yet but if i get out today i will try them and let you know how it goes.
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gunked
Jan 30, 2005, 6:32 PM
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I've had great success sharpening my own screws. I'm not kidding when I say that they work like new, if not better (I've taken alot of old screws and made them work like a new BD), after I get done with them. Alas...my digital camera is gone and it'll be difficult to explain without pics, but I'll give it my best shot. I will caution you to read this entire post before starting anything! To start, let's give ourselves a couple of definitions (I'm making these up as I go along :wink: ) -Point = The tip of each tooth. First part to touch the ice. -Angled wall = While holding the screw in your hand with the teeth facing up, this is the curved wall that will slant down to the left. -Steep wall = This is the wall on the other side of the point (right side) that drops down at a negative angle and meets up with the angled wall on the right. -Valley = We'll give this name to the area where the angled and steep wall meet. -Curved outer wall = This is what we'll call the oustide curve of the teeth. Lower down, the threads are located on this wall. -'Top' of the screw = the teeth side facing away from the inside of the screw tube. The bottom is the hanger side. -I'm sure you know what the 'Hanger','Threads' and the 'Teeth' are already! :roll: God, I hope all of this make sense!!! :!: First thing to discuss is what tools you'll be using. I'll tell you what I use and then I'll tell you what you can get away with. I use what would essentially be a dremel tool. (I highly recommend getting one of these if you're goin to be doing this properly - You can probably find them in the $40 range with some searching). I'm a jeweler, so I just use my motors and handpieces. You will also need various attachment for the dremel tool. For the dremel, you will need medium anf fine sanding discs(7/8 to 1 1/4in. dia. discs will work well - start with the medium and work down to the fine), cutting discs ( be VERY careful with these as they will heat up metal quick and break easily), brass wire wheels (in the 1 inch range will work). A sheet or two of fine(+-400 grit) and extra-fine(+-600 grit) wet-or-dry sandpaper. Any hard(preferably steel), flat (level) surface that won't get destroyed by placng a sharp screw on it with the points down. Also, get a silicone spray lubricant (any hardware or outo parts place should have this). The second thing to think about is the physics of why the screw goes in easily and then holds well. It goes in easily because all 4 teeth are cutting at once and they're all sharp. (It also has to do with the lack of friction with the ice while the tube is being screwed in, but we'll deal with that later as it has multiple factors involved.) You will want all of teeth level with eachother. You will also want all of the teeth equi-distant from eachother. The most important areas to shape properly are the steep walls and the points. The threads are also important to slightly shape. The threads have a constant V-shape (cross-section) that holds securely into the ice. If there are kinks in the threads that stick out and would add to extra cutting of the ice, then you'll want to file these down, very carefully, so that they don't. (I really hope that made sense :? !) Basically, think about the screw in the ice and how it makes contact. The strongest placement will have the least amount of ice fracture surrounding the screw, so that if it were to be loaded (a fall, for instance) it has very little area to shift and, therefore, fracture less surrounding ice. The strongest placement will also have solid ice, but you can only help to control one of these variables! One thing to keep in mind is that some of what I will say is fact and some of it is theory that I've added to existing tests and my basic knowledge of physics. Okay...Let's Start: PUT ON SAFETY GLASSES NOW AND BE CAREFUL OF YOUR FINGERS!!! - Start slowly, gently and carefully, you'll get faster with practice! Start with one screw and bring it through the entire process. You'll have a better working knowledge for the rest of them. You can do all of them at the same time after the first one's done! 1- Unless you have done some seriously bad filing in the past, the points should be, more or less, equi-distant already. If not, PM me and I'll tell you how to fix this OR I'll do it for you. It requires alot of cutting or a jeweler's saw and it's a PIA! :evil: 2- If the curved wall (where the threads are) has lost it's shape due to contact with the rock, it's now time to get the original shape back to it. Use a hand file or the dremel with a sanding disc (+-7/8 inch dia.) on it. While filing or sanding this area, think about the shape of the outside of the tube as if it were one long tube with no threads or teeth on it. Just take away the surface that's sticking out (probably near the point). 3- Holding the screw with the teeth facing down on your hard surface (steel block or similar) check to see if the teeth are the same height. You can do this by turning it 1/4 turn and seeing which teeth protrude a bit. Using a small (7/8 inch) disc sander on your dremel, flatten the high teeth just a tiny bit on the point in the 'Top' orientation. NOTE-In doing this, you will be destroying any of the perfectly new points if there are any. This is necessary to do this right IMO. :wink: I will, generally, do all of the screws at once. In other words, do Step 1 to all of them, then Step 2, ect... 4-It's now time to start sanding down the angled wall until the point goes from a flat to a point again. Do this VERY gently and don't let it get hot. This is a good time to talk about NOT letting the metal get TOO HOT. When metal get's too hot it loses it's hardness. If it's hot to the touch, stop! You should not be sanding any particular area for longer than a few seconds. When it get's hot, rotate to the next tooth and work on that one. You'll get a rhythm going after a while. You can even start on a different screw if all of the teeth are still a little hot. Try to mantain the original angle of the angled wall. You may find yourself having to cut down quite a bit and into the valley as well. That's okay. Just try to sand down the wall evenly and angle it slightly towards the inside as that's where you want the ice to go when the screw is cutting into it. You'll be done with this step when all of the points are back and level with nice looking angled walls. 5- The steep walls should be the area that's touched the least over the life of the screw. If these are in the proper place and angle, all of the other walls and angles of the top of the screw should fall into place easily. However, they might need a little work. If you've done alot of poor filing in this area in the past, they might need some major work. If this is the case, PM me and I'll instruct you on it or do it for you. This is the (with the point) the main cutting surface of the screw and diverts the crushed ice towards the center of the tube. The angle of this wall is very inportant. I'll do my best to explain what it should look like when done! While holding the screw with vertically wit the top up, this wall should be slightly beyond vertical (between 5 to 10 degrees over-hanging). The angle of this surface as can be seen by looking straight down from the top of the screw (towards the teeth as if you're going to screw your face with it :roll:), should be sharper than 90 degrees. If you were to draw a straight line in this orientation denoting the current angle of the wall, it should would create a line that cuts through 1/3 of the diameter of the circle of the tube in a 2 dimensional view. The line itself would intersect the middle of the tooth to the immediate left of the one you're working one. I really hope that THAT made any sense at all!?! :shock: 6- Now it's time to make sure that the valley is angled slightly in towards the hanger and the inside of the screw (to help push the ice in the right direction). Sand or file as is necessary to make the angled wall, the valley, and the steep wall come together in a somewhat flowing shape. 7- take a small piece of the fine grit sandpaper and take off any overhanging sharp edges that may have occured during the filing or sanding process. Remember that you want the screw to remain sharp, you're just removing excess metal that doesn't pertain to the finished shape you want. For the inside of the screw, use the fine followed by the extra-fine sandpaper. Try not to scratch the inside of the screw as best you can. It's smoothness is key to a good screw. (Boy, that came out wrong! :roll: ) 8- Shape the threads properly. Only do this to threads that are deformed at all. It takes a very light touch to do this. It makes sense to me that it's better to take away a little than leave a little sticking out as this causes less fracturing of the ice when screwing in. Before moving on to the next step, check each screw and make sure there aren't any burs sticking out that will catch on any and every type of cloth and sling you're wearing. Hit these areas very lightly with the sandpaper while still keeping the points sharp. 9- Time to get the rust off. You can use the wire wheel attachment for this, or hit it with the extra-fine sandpaper. Get all of the rust off. Even get inside the tube near the teeth if there is any there very carefully. It's important to remember that any of the original manufacturing surface coating that you take off WILL increase the chance of rust in the future. For that matter, there are many screws (especially the older ones) that will lose it's surface coating with as little as one placement in very hard ice. Screws WILL RUST, and, therefore, need to be maintained properly. 10- Once all of the rust is off, get a piece of cardboard and the silicone spray and a dust mask and go outside. DO NOT SPRAY THIS STUFF INDOORS OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!!! Shake the can and lightly coat the outside of the tube spraying from two opposite sides while holding the hanger. DO NOT SPRAY INTO THE WIND AND DO NOT BREATHE IT IN! I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE HERE!?! :idea: Shake the can again! Next, spray the inside of the tube from the hanger towards the teeth with a couple of squirts letting the excess drip onto the dirt or thick cardboard. This stuff will stain wood among other things and is bad for your lungs. After letting it drip dry for a few seconds, let it dry on the cardboard for an hour or two. The screws will still stink up your house at this point. I'd put them in the garage if you have one. Otherwise the closet after they've been put away. I've gone so far as to (when on a trip to Ouray or something) hang them outside of the room using string and hooks and separating them individually, but that's a little extreme! :roll: 11- Do your best to store them individually. If you throw them all in a bag together, you've just wasted quite a bit of time. Mine and Yours!!! Get a hold of a chisel roll. It's a bag designed to hold chisels. You can find them online from a company called Grizzly Industrial. I'd Yahoo them and find the best price. Get 2 as you'll eventually wear through them. Don't get a cotton one. The one I found is coated canvas and holds 18 screws without a problem. 12- After every use, dry out all of your gear immediately and then re-spray the screws the same way. If you wait to dry out your gear, it will rust Unless you are constantly screwing your ice screws into the rock, you should only have to do this once or twice a year. Treat them well and they may save your life someday Good Luck and PM me with any questions! -Jason :D
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veganboyjosh
Jan 30, 2005, 6:35 PM
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when i saw the subject "screw sharpening" on the front page, i thought this was gonna be a rant against sharpening. ha.
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gunked
Jan 30, 2005, 6:49 PM
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I'll just apologize right now for the FLOOD of info. :lol: -Jason :D
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akclimber
Jan 30, 2005, 8:05 PM
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Evidence. :lol:
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reno
Jan 30, 2005, 8:08 PM
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In reply to: I'll just apologize right now for the FLOOD of info. Don't... it is good info, and I'm sure it will be very helpful.
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gunked
Jan 30, 2005, 8:17 PM
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Don't have any pictures and my camera is dead. So please explain any difficulties in following and I'll do my best to explain them better. I'm clearly not an English major!:tinfoilhat: -Jason :D
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clintoris
Jan 30, 2005, 10:28 PM
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my buddy Paul sharpens his own screws and is considering doing it for others, if the price is right.
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gunksgoer
Jan 30, 2005, 10:49 PM
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wow, im glad i dont ice climb, cuz i really dont want to read gunked's whole post... its a book. :-D
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gunked
Jan 31, 2005, 12:04 AM
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I'm making pictures right now in my CAD program. Yeah, I've got some time to kill!:roll: Be back within the hour. Although, I think I'm gonna have to wait for them to be ok'd by the mods. -Jason :wink:
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mother_sheep
Jan 31, 2005, 3:08 PM
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HEY! Thanks for the info! Yeah, pictures would help greatly. Good stuff gunk!
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bill413
Jan 31, 2005, 4:28 PM
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Jason - That was a wonderful description! (Wish I could rate today!) Bill
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gunked
Jan 31, 2005, 7:53 PM
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By tomorrow morning, check out the 'Articles' section for 'Advanced Ice Screw Sharpening and Care'. I haven't figure out what category to put it under cause nothing seems to match! Probably 'Gear and Reviews' matches up the closest! Mothersheep, thanks for the inspiration. I've thought about doing this before, I just didn't know how to do it (Write an article, or get up the motivation!) Also want to thank Skibabeage for asking me to write an article about it. Not to mention a few others who gave me cr@p about not having any pictures. Let's see if I can pull it off. I don't have a camera, so I rendered it in a CAD program last night. Here's hoping! -Jason :D
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rendog
Feb 1, 2005, 4:13 AM
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hey Jason right on man very well put. kudos bro a nice shiney cup for you! i would however like to make one slight suggestion...try the technique on a screw that could be classes as a "leaver screw" first to get it right before going at your newish express screws . htat way you won't be as upset if you wreck it the first go 'round just my opinion htat's all
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gunked
Feb 1, 2005, 7:10 AM
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Rendog, thanks for the info. I added it in. Good call on the leaver screw! THE ARTICLE'S DONE It's after 2am.....I'm goin to bed!!! It just has to be approved now -Jason :D
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clymber
Feb 1, 2005, 12:52 PM
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tracy im sure once iget out to CO i can hook you up with the sharpening...mike and axel both do it to htere screws...thinking we wil be out there in another week
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michael crowder
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Feb 1, 2005, 1:55 PM
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the grivel ice screw sharpening machine is the bomb. it works on all screws no matter who manufactured them. check out these links for more info. http://www.grivel.com/...ffilatura_chiodi.asp http://www.expo.planetmountain.com/...id_comp=22&keyID=214 there is supposed to be one of these machines in canada but i don't know of any in the u.s. bill at ouray mountain sports has been contemplating buying one but has not done it yet to my knowledge. this machine costs about 3 grand but is supposed to be the bomb. some shop needs to buy on and put it on line. if they charged 10 to 12 bucks a screw i would send them 20 to 30 screws on my first order. it seems to me that someone could turn a serious profit with this thing but i have no real interest in another climbing related business. michael
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gunked
Feb 1, 2005, 3:13 PM
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Damn - I wish I had seen that machine BEFORE I wrote the article :roll: !!! Just kidding! I just read about the machine. Apparently it only works on screws in the 19cm to 22cm range. That's less than half of my rack. I like the idea of putting a screw into a machine and getting a perfect screw with the flick of a switch. There's something so frighteningly American about that idea! :shock: At one point I thought about doing this (by hand...not machine) as a winter business, but I decided not to. I'm way to busy with my own business. Anyway....Article is up and running WITH PICTURES...Enjoy -Jason :D
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eviljay
Feb 1, 2005, 4:17 PM
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That's 19-22mm diameter. Not 19 to 22CM length.
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gunked
Feb 1, 2005, 5:07 PM
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Oops....your right! I didn't read it properly. :roll: Well, assuming that they're talking about the diameter with threads (and I'm sure they are) then BD's and Omega's would work fine. :wink: Thanks for the correction, Jason :D
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gunked
Feb 1, 2005, 11:17 PM
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Your Welcome, I'm injured for the entire season and clearly have way too much time on my hands! -Jason :D
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zozo
Feb 1, 2005, 11:26 PM
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What 3D program did you use to create all those pictures? 3D kicks my ass!!
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gunked
Feb 2, 2005, 3:23 AM
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I use 'Rhinoceros CAD'. I normally build jewelery models with it. It's an awesome program. The renderings were very basic as I don't have a rendering program (no need for it yet). I just used Rhino's basic stuff. Funny thing is from start to finish on just the CAD stuff, all of the renderings were built and saved in about 45 minutes flat. The HTML took freakin' forever since I've never worked with it before. Live and Learn! Any more specific question, feel free to PM me. :wink: -Jason :D
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