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zoob
Jan 31, 2005, 8:42 AM
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Hello climbing community. So this might be a wierd one but I would like to know if anyone else has wrestled with this..
So the deal is I proposed to my long time girl friend last Thanks Giving. Super all is great and the anser was yes.....
We live apart currently due to jobs, one in Calgary and one in Anchorage...
So after having asked, I have been hitting the ice as usual. But its a little different, I feel like I have much more to loose. Basically most of the climbs I do now I get at least 5 min of head games and wigging out from a fear of loss and danger....Anyone ever dealt with this.
I in no way want to stop climbing and know I will not, not would my wife want me to... but I need to conquer these head games...Any suggestions?
Thanks
Z
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8flood8
Jan 31, 2005, 9:29 AM
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maybe you finally met someone who makes you think about more than yourself!
not bad!!
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walrus
Jan 31, 2005, 9:32 AM
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Sounds like you have realized something bad happening to you would have a more effect on someone else than it did before. Maybe try some easier climbing for a bit.
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oldfart
Jan 31, 2005, 9:37 AM
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You need a support group to tell you whether to climb or not?
Marc Twight would kick your ass.
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roughster
Jan 31, 2005, 11:04 AM
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You think getting married messes with your head, wait till you have kids! At some point in time, you realize that climbing is a great past-time, but it is not worth jeopardizing your life over needlessly. Everyone has a tolerance level of risk versus reward, and it sounds like you may have had a shift in yours. Just find the balance and everything will be fine. Eventually the scale will creep back up over time. There is a reason why alot of the old trad bad asses like to sport climb now :lol:
I may get flamed for this but I often get the feeling that those who push the boundaries as it is related to risk versus reward the most are the ones who deep down inside feel like they have little to live for. Chronic Big Wallers, R/X Trad climbers, Soloists, etc... Either that or the "reward" for being able to to look bad ass in the eyes of others has become so important that in their own mind, that the exagerated risk of dying is worth it. Sad...
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dogyote
Jan 31, 2005, 12:57 PM
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We were out climbing at the local crag a few years ago and one of the younger guys in our group was lamenting his lack of a girlfriend. He was starting to wonder if he needed to climb less to pursue a relationship. The older guys were as sympathetic as men always are to one another. One of them told him he need to choose: he could either have a lovelife or he could have climbing. Then another guy added, 'Or you can get married and have neither!".
Dog
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speedywon
Jan 31, 2005, 1:53 PM
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Two words: calculated risks. Personally I am not so worried about getting killed, as I use good judgement and trust my climbing partners. I am worried about breaking a leg, etc. and having to miss work and consequently lossing some income that effects my family also. As a result, I choose my routes more carefully. No more routes with long runouts!
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rocks4jules
Jan 31, 2005, 1:55 PM
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:) I know exactly what you are feeling!!! I have this feeling every time I go out, due to my children and family. I am a free-spirited person, but I care deeply for my loved ones. When I know they are worried, and I give in to one ounce of what they might be thinking while I am climbing, or if I get myself in a prediciment, I then get "the" adreneline rush. Talking to her about it, and letting her reassure you she is not worried, should help.
Take care, keep climbing, and Cheers.
Jules
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jackhammer
Jan 31, 2005, 2:03 PM
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I feel the same way, but it will pass. Afetr I get that first piece of protection in...I'm fine. But I do always seem to have that lingering "what if..." feeling. Oh well, c'est la vie!
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blueeyedclimber
Jan 31, 2005, 2:10 PM
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In reply to: I feel the same way, but it will pass.
No, it doesn't pass, but, you WILL come to grips with it. I already had a daughter and I met my current wife right when i started climbing, so I have always had this feeling of responsibility. I don't take unnecessary risks and never will. Climbing, like is printed in every piece of literature, is an inherently dangerous activity. Just stack the odds in your favor.
And congratulations to the op!
Josh
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fishbelly
Jan 31, 2005, 2:17 PM
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Time management. I married a partner for life not a climbing partner. Children are a even harder to manage. You realized this before you were married . When the choice comes up family time or climb time? Family wins!
As a old trad I agree easy sport routes are the deal the older and fatter I get, I always thought sport climbing as alot more social. My wife has belayed 5.12
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carrotclimber
Jan 31, 2005, 2:23 PM
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I used to think that I would never get married or have children for this exact reason. I knew that if I wanted to go climb a mountain, travel to somewhere that others would deem "dangerous" or do something else with higher than average risk, I would feel a lot of responsibility to a partner and/or children and I might not want to take the risk any longer. And this was LONG before I started climbing. I told this to my friends and family when I graduated from high school (about a decade ago).
Now I know better, I hope. I did get married, and while my desire to remain a free-spirit and an adventurer is still strong, I am more cautious about the risks I take in life. I still struggle when friends and family members ask me not to climb. Those that are closest to me though realize that it is just part of who I am, what my personality is about, and they like who I am... so they eventually accept it (well, some are still struggling with the climbing bit). Do I still feel a bit of guilt over wanting to take selfish risks? Of course... but in the end, it will probably keep me safer knowing the impact on others if I would happen to severely damage or get myself killed. One of my biggest goals in life is to prove to everyone I know that I won't die climbing. ;)
I want to prove that to myself as well... I definitely do not have a death wish.
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jackhammer
Jan 31, 2005, 2:25 PM
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Dude, I meant it passes form my thoughts...not my situation. Get a grip.
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blueeyedclimber
Jan 31, 2005, 3:16 PM
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In reply to: Dude, I meant it passes form my thoughts...not my situation. Get a grip.
Ok, dude, you first. I didn't quote you because I was dissing you, I was just making a point to help the man. And, btw, my wife and daughter NEVER pass from my thoughts. :D (smiley thrown in to let you know my demeanor at time of posting)
Josh
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coopershawk
Jan 31, 2005, 3:59 PM
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It's hard not to get caught up in the allure of climbing, married or not. Once you start to realize how much climbing truly involves, the intenese personal commitment and the deire for improvement this commitment evokes , it can be diificult to back down. My wife is cool with it; she knows it is an outlet for me and wouldn't try to infringe on my climbing time. I know that it can be a selfish pursuit as well, but you do only live once, and I guess they key there is to compromise so that both parties are happy.
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keinangst
Jan 31, 2005, 4:25 PM
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From a newlywed here, congratulations!
One thing is certain, though. No matter what religion, philosophy, background, or culture people come from, you will see that your importance and impact to those you love will be the central factor in your long-term feelings of worth and success as a person. That is probably one of the most universal themes, from speeches by grandpa to topics in self-help books.
Personally, even though my wife doesn't like climbing, she realizes how important it is to me. For my part, I make an effort to mitigate risks more than I did before.
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dingus
Jan 31, 2005, 4:42 PM
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"Before" and "after" just don't seem to be useful categories. Life is a continuim, yes? It is not static, ever. To say, before proposal I gave nary a thought to dying or fear or etc. but after, now I'm all attwitter just tying in' I bet seems silly?
Me, I've always been a chicken shit with very modest climbing ability... at my best. Yet occasionally I've managed to dig deep and surpass my self-expectations. I've stumbled down that path before and after marriage, before and after kids.
Like the song... one day you wake up with something to lose. So the near misses become more poigniant, the steam and electric sizzle of unmitigated fear can resonate in your brain for days, so that as you bounce your 3 year old on your knee you find yourself thinking of that 3rd class route and the fear of the big drop feels like the kiss of fear on your forehead.
Been there.
But then again, we climbers, even pathetic ones like me, specailize in compartmentalism, it is somewhat of a must. So that when the chips are down and the shit turns stinky, we find we can still deal, we can still put the world in the box and deal directly with out elemental wiring.
Done that.
Life is a continuim and so is climbing. We cannot forever 'get better.' We cannot reasonably expect to to top our prior efforts every time out, or even equal them. Sometimes we'll get on our very own standards and fall off of them, shattering our pride along with our bones.
Working on the book.
For me, one of the most important lessons in climbing, and it is one that hopefully and surely I will continue to learn, is to climb what interests and pleases me, instead of pursuing the dreams of others, such as those illustrated in your favorite climbing rag.
When your mind is suggesting you might be having more fun skiing than ice climbing (again), and the devil is whispering that only pussies go skiing when they could be ice climbing... that decision is owned lock stock and barrel by the person making it. She can't blame anyone else.
Every climber that has ever pulled down has asked herself more than once... what in THE HELL am I doing here? Or the derivation of the old dogs... 'why am I doing this AGAIN???'
The answer is...
you don't HAVE to do a thing. You don't have to do that scary lead, even though you might have floated it 3 months ago. What will that climb look and feel like in 20 years? In 100?
Easy for me to type all this shit and to paraphrase George Costanza, it didn't even take that long. But life with my family has helped me to appreciate: it's perfectly OK (for me) to smell the climbing roses and avoid as it suites my flights of fancy, the climbing shit.
If your inner wah says kick back and take it easy on duffer routes, maybe you ought to consider it for a while? Even the fastest sprinters occasionally jog, do they not?
There IS a climbing life after marriage my friend. My BEST climbing pretty much all occured after I got married.
My marriage to my wife Nancy Milktoast in fact enabled my best climbing, fondest memories and most lasting partnerships.
As well as granting me 2 wonderful children, a good job and a decent life.
DMT
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wjca
Jan 31, 2005, 4:46 PM
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My wife (of 6 years) and I are expecting our first child, a boy, in about 8 days. One good thing about our relationship is that she is one of my climbing partners. She likes to hit the gym with me or go out cragging, but generally stays away from the mulit-pitch climbing. Fortunately, she knows that I would rather be several hundred feet up rather than toproping, so she is very supportive when I go without her. By the way. she also was in the gym until she was about six months pregnant. After that, her balance was screwed up due to the sudden increase in weight and the fact that she could not get close to the wall with a big belly.
The problem we are going to run into in the near future is how we can both climb together with an infant waiting at the bottom of the crag. It looks like we will climb with different people during the week at the gym and hopefully find babysitters or extra people to hit the crags with so that at least one person is at the bottom not attached to a rope. We'll work it out I suppose.
To the sentiment of the original post, the immenant arrival of a little one has made me re-arrange my priorties. I still have the urge to get outside, but on more tame rock, ice and mountains. I guess I will never make that solo climb up Everest.
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chugach001
Jan 31, 2005, 6:19 PM
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I agree with Roughster - wait 'til you have kids!
I have had lots of ups and downs with climbing as we dated, got married and had 3 kids. For some reason it now seems to be working well for me. Kids are infinately better than climbing but climbing is now more enjoyable to me. Who would have thought?
It takes work to have an awesomely fulfilling and satisfying life. At some point I matured to the place where I made three sub-conscious decisions; (1) Live a fully integrated life and do everything full speed (work, love, climbing, changing diapers). (2) Never begrudge one activity for stealing from another and (3) Gain freedom by pro-actively satisfying the needs of others. Note: on that last point it takes an awesome spouse who loves you enough to return the love. I got lucky!
Good Luck,
Jeff
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justafurnaceman
Jan 31, 2005, 6:28 PM
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Just wait until she takes out a 2 million dollar life insurance policy out for you. THEN you're going to start checking your gear a lot more and maybe you'll have someone else belay instead of her.
WAAAAHHH, KABOOM!!! OOPPSS dear, I'm sorry, I guess I didn't take up enough slack.
JUST KIDDING!! Like someone said, if you climb safe and smart you'll get over the fear of screwing up and leaving your love ones. Check yourself and your set up. Is your anchor points safe? When is the last time you checked your gear? No more long run outs past protection. Paranoia isn't going to help you to be a better clilmber, nor have any fun.
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couchman
Jan 31, 2005, 6:32 PM
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ditto on the having kids. Hopefull, your pursuits in life will either cross over, or you both will support each other.
i fine it is easier to go climbing with a kid, then to head up to a hill and go snowboarding. At lest with climbing I can always just tie them down to something.
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steph
Feb 1, 2005, 11:10 PM
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Well personally I'm lucky enough to be going out with a climber so we both feel the same way and we know we do. You shouldnt feel ashamed of wimping out of a risky situation or anything like that. when you find someone who you care about more than yourself then i promise even climbing will come a close 2nd and you wont need as much risk to get a thrill. I think you've just realised that there are some things worth staying alive for and i congratulate you for that :) Anyway you dont have to risk your life when climbing - most accidents happen from major risk taking like soloing, scrambling, running the rope out, etc. you'll find a balance cos if you're anything like me and my boyfriend, nothing could keep you off the wall forever.
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steph
Feb 1, 2005, 11:11 PM
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Well personally I'm lucky enough to be going out with a climber so we both feel the same way and we know we do. You shouldnt feel ashamed of wimping out of a risky situation or anything like that. when you find someone who you care about more than yourself then i promise even climbing will come a close 2nd and you wont need as much risk to get a thrill. I think you've just realised that there are some things worth staying alive for and i congratulate you for that :) Anyway you dont have to risk your life when climbing - most accidents happen from major risk taking like soloing, scrambling, running the rope out, etc. you'll find a balance cos if you're anything like me and my boyfriend, nothing could keep you off the wall forever.
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wonderwoman
Feb 2, 2005, 12:43 AM
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I climb harder since I'm married. I've always been a safety nut. Instead, I worry about my husband's safety. Although I really have nothing to worry about. He would never put himself in jeopardy. But I guess it's because I love him so much, right?
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kreate
Feb 2, 2005, 1:20 AM
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dude you dont have more to loose you have more to live for. im not married but i asked my dog baxter(hes so wise, like a miniature budah, covered with hair) and that is what he said.
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