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dmckj
Feb 2, 2005, 5:12 PM
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In reply to: Of course Dave and I had no desire to be ignominious towards you.
Whoah! This is a guy who said in court that he only accepted a phone call from me because he thought it was Warren Harding, in order to screw me over for something I didn't do. Sorry, Dangle doesn't get off that easy...
In reply to: "I am not even going to acknowledge you by yelling at you. Let's go down."
This gets the quote of the day award in my book. The question I have is this: If Devo was able to swoop down and save the busload of tourists with his green cape fluttering, why didn't he just retrieve the rack? I must be missing the obvious here.
Never fear, gentle reader, a thread-pertinent historical interlude will be coming up shortly......
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ron_jeremy
Feb 2, 2005, 8:41 PM
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Great thread, learned more than I ever cared to about Zion history. But I also must set a couple facts straight for the record.
1-Dave Jones is a sandbagging MF'er. Omak Crack=12a? Might have well called it I'm On Crack. Nice one there.
&
2-Flamer, Jon wanted me to tell you that you cried like a little baby lamb while leading Lurking Fear last summer.
Also, I just thought I should mention that Alpine is the biggest disgrace to the world of Hotshots, no wait, I take that back...it's your Park Service sisters at Arrowhead.
That's all.
Carry on.
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dmckj
Feb 2, 2005, 9:11 PM
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In reply to: Dave Jones is a sandbagging MF'er. Omak Crack=12a? Might have well called it I'm On Crack. Nice one there
Way off thread, but I'll pitch in. Omak Crack (or Omakulate Conception)....great route in the Omak area of Okanogan Valley in Washington State. Took me three (or 4?) concerted afternoon efforts to get up it on lead...all trad. Frankly, I don't think I'm capable of putting up anything harder than a 5.12a on lead in that manner, but if you want to jack up the rating so be it. Maybe you've spent a little too much time in the 'soft' Valley World of ratings. No move on Omak is harder than solid 5.11, just a lot of hard moves in a row which made me give it the 'token' 5.12a. If you thought that was sandbag, you probably thought all the other ones at Omak are sandbag.
And if you thought those were sandbag....I'd avoid going to Zion.....
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flamer
Feb 2, 2005, 9:19 PM
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In reply to: 2-Flamer, Jon wanted me to tell you that you cried like a little baby lamb while leading Lurking Fear last summer. Also, I just thought I should mention that Alpine is the biggest disgrace to the world of Hotshots, no wait, I take that back...it's your Park Service sisters at Arrowhead.
If I had to wager a guess....I'd say What's up Morgan???
Dude everybody know's that Arrowhead is soft.....after all i hear they recruit from those sissy's over at Yosemite Helitack!!
josh
ps LF was 2 years ago....
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 12:55 AM
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Just back from the rock and the sun with cell talk and big pertinent doings but more after I create some dinner. Still, before washing my fingers I wanted to add publicly that Alpinestylist offered me a very polite and sincere apology via PM that I won't embarass him by printing here.
Brent is OK in my book as long as he comes through with that beer I suggested when the time comes.
I really did only skim through this so I'm not sure I understand a Harding reference (I'm not sure I want to) but I miss that crotchety old coot. I want suggestions from some aid climbers where to donate some of his stuff. I have one of his hammers, some of his rack, and the prize of the collection is the spare bat tent carried but not needed on the WOTEML. I want to use it once on a virgin wall before either giving it to the Yosemite Foundation or the AAC Museum in Golden.
Although I skimmed, Devo's claim of "nothing ignominious" smells like horse manure. His Hitler reference was an attempt to obscure the treachery of Dave's friend (Devo's too perhaps??) and alone refutes it.
Why he should prove so two faced is beyond me. I made a good natured crack about his video. (If he didn't contract for residuals from TLC he is as we speak beating his head into the wall and saying"Why? Why?) And threatened to "blackmail" him with the one picture he knows I wouldn't broadcast because its always the biggest laugh in any slide show I do. Its the after in a before/after sequence right after he believes that the rope just broke or something.
I have been approached by eye doctors afterwards who wish to use the photo or just study it further. They say stuff like,"I'd have sworn that could only happen in cartoons!"
Shame on you. This is supposed to be about history. I criticized McJones for usurping Scott Fischer's rightful place in Zion history. Either by active or passive means matters little to me. He continues to equivocate on this offering only a weak claim to have repeated a couple of ankle biter routes. (Boring Crack was continued to the summit by Jeff Lowe in my video now available at your local climbing shop. except for zion rock and etc.)
Before dinner I just wanted to add that Dave's puerile attempt to ignore my sarcasm and take words at face value doesn't become a Dartmouth grad.
Omigod! I just thought of something. What if he really DOESN'T understand?
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 2:01 AM
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Oh my...Dangle must have been delving deep into his Dale Carnegie books to come up with this last one....
Let's see what debating tricks did he use:
1) When losing an argument, change the subject...
2) When losing an argument, try to pretend you're above it all....
3) When losing an argument, play on the emotions of the crowd (evoking Fisher and Harding in a single post).
The bit about 'not understanding' the Harding reference was priceless. In a bit I'll provide the source of the Harding reference. It was Ron who evoked Harding while telling his 'story' in court. He's now earned the right to have a full public airing. Thread readers will notice he has stayed away from this topic entirely.
Same thing with respect to Fischer.
Really nice, Dangle. Playing on the memories of two dead guys to put yourself above it all and tear down other folks.
Where'd you learn that one?
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iamthewallress
Feb 3, 2005, 2:12 AM
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Regarding Harding's items...Ken Yager would probably be happy to receive them for the new climbing museum that's supposed to go in on the dirt where the gas station used to be.
http://rockclimbing.org/YCA_flyer.pdf
A personal story about what happened in court might add spice to the artifacts?
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 3:23 AM
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Back on the cell. Can't I even have a glass?
What does the book say? When I AM above mudslinging and arguing with a loser? Hey! Come here. There's something in my turd. Dig it out and explain it to me. Ooh if you don't you're a loser automatically because I say so.
History is history. Petty bickering doesn't qualify. I think Mike might be picking up on that, but as to changing the argument, what was that response to debunking your claim to seventies history? Fischer as well? What does that mean?
(I'll take your word on the Dale Carnegie claim.)
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rocknroll
Feb 3, 2005, 4:34 AM
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Gee, Ron, I take back my statement that you might be a more calmer and resonable person these days. Your first reply to our stories was an excellent piece of prose; intellegent, a great command of syntax, and certainly accepting of the fun we have had at your expense thus far. This last post with its fecal references, poor analogies and circular logic; its only conclusion being the same name-calling and bickering that you complain about; are you drinking and posting? I have the utmost respect for your intelligence, but I must say, you are proving by example that negative side of you that sends so many of your partners away. No wonder you have soloed so many walls.. .
The Timbertop story ends like this.
"I can't believe that Ron made us walk" I said to Mark as I stuck out my thumb and grinned at the on-coming traffic. "But the Busman has hitched hiked all over this land and I got a formula for these scared Mormons - 1)dress like a preppie not a climber; 2) smile, don't look like a threat and 3)always have a sign that says "Home to Mom."
Mark replied, "Well with that grin, that rope on your back and Ron's court papers as a sign, you'll never get a ride. You look like you were just let out of the mental institution."
"I feel like it to. That Ron Olevesky makes you crazy."
Mark: "I know. After this experience I will never speak to him again. I am erasing his name out of my address book and clearing his memory from my mind."
And Mark has kept that promise to this day.
Come on Ron, let's hear your side of the court case/ timbertop story!
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 4:42 AM
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Dang it.....how come I never have hot popcorn ready when things start getting interesting........(I'll be back)
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 4:49 AM
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Rocknroller,
Obviously your years as a top video maker are paying off big time. Nice set-up to the Timbertop Tale, plus injecting the court documents was a good twist. I hope you treated those documents with some respect, as they cost me a bit of money...
I'm warming up to the tale.
So...how long did it take you guys to walk back to Springdale?
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rocknroll
Feb 3, 2005, 5:00 AM
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We didn't walk. We got a ride. Thank God for Jack Mormons.
Timber top is coming, But I am waiting for Ron to put the aseptics in the fass nord and haul them on the B rope and tell his side of the story.
In the mean time, do you want to hear the story of trying to win a date with Ceder City Sally at the Bit and Spur Saloon in Springdale?
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 5:08 AM
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Yeah, Cedar City Sally....didn't she sing a song, let's see, how'd it go?.....
I'll be your Cedar City Sally...
If you'll be my Zion wall dude...
And we can sneak into Pah Tempe hot springs
And go soak in the nude....
doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo
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rocknroll
Feb 3, 2005, 7:04 AM
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There's a band playing at the Bite and Spank (Bit and Spur) Saloon and them Mormon folk are going to be letting thier hair down. The bar is filled with river runners, cowboys, sheepherders, tourists and a few girls that look like they could be out of high school. The climbers are a new addition to the demographics as is one punk rocker (me) and a gay guy (the owner). I never really was very good at picking up chicks and felt a little uncomfortable. Mark Pey, as my coach, says nothing ventured, nothing gained. Well. I spy this thin waif of a girl and get bold and start talking. "What's your name?
Sally?
Where you from?
Ceder City?
Ceder City Sally?
Yep.
Suddenly I ran out of things to say.
An uncomfortable silence when I hear this bellowing voice from across the bar yelling to Sally.
"Come on over here little girl and I'll give you a kiss you'll never forget, by God!"
It's Dan Gifford, the pig farmer. (Ever notice how people in agricultural areas actually look like cows, pigs, and sheep?) A big smile comes over her face and Sally skips across the bar, plops down on Dan's over stuffed knee, grabs his humongus belly and plants one right on his fat lips.
I say to Mark " I could never do that."
Mark: "well, you better start. He just stole her away from you."
But Ceder City Sally comes back and she's now really interested in me. The band starts, I start pogo dancing and Sally gives me a look like I just walked off a space ship.
"I'm losing her." I say to Mark as we separate and go off the dance floor.
Mark hands me the keys to the VW rabbit. "there's some pot and a pipe in the glove box. See if she want's to get high" Mark turns around and continues his conversation with a female river guide. I watch the Master at work.
She: What are you doing in Zion?
Mark: I am an ornithologist (Mark Pey's Guide to Picking up Women Rule No. 1 -Whatever you do, don't let on that you are a scum bag climber).
Mark: I was wondering if you were interested in finding a rare bird with me? The purple headed throbber.
She: purple headed throbber?
I almost bust out laughing as Sally returns and snuggles up close to me. "You wanna go get high? " I ask and we go out to the parking lot.
"So Sally," I ask as we each take tokes on the pipe "what's it like living in Ceder City.'
"Well. life was pretty normal until them Californians came to town. Then I started getting in trouble. Sex,drugs, rock and roll. And I am suppose to be a Mormon. But I don't go no more, I guess I'm what we call a jack mormon".
There is a long silence as I try and think of something to say. But she speaks first.
"I have a present for you. " she says in the sweetest, softest voice.
"You do?"
Yup." and from inside her coat she produces a glass with the Bit and Spur logo on it..
I state the obvious."That's a glass from the bar."
"Yup" she says as she leans in close. "I stoled it. Its for you.
"Sally." I say, " I don't think the owner Marcus would appreciate you stealing his glass."
"What!" Sally becomes indignant "Well you can keep your stupid pot...and the glass" and she slams the door and runs into the arms of Dan Giiford.
And that was that.
oK it isnt as good a story as the others, but I wonder what ol' Ceder City Sally is doing today.
Your turn Ron
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 7:19 AM
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Reminded why I only skim.
OK I lived in Cedar City from 9/79 - 12/81.
I dated one Sally in '76.
I went to Pah Tempe on numerous occasions with female companions until it was screwed up by the water project.
Speaking of screwed up, is this another case of time warp?
Don't remember any hitchiking. Do remember shuttling a borrowed trailer to Summit (a town) twice to get my mule from Toquerville to Lee Pass.
To the intelligent reader saying WTF,
Lee Pass like Lee's Ferry, AZ is named for John D. Lee who claimed to be a scapegoat when executed for the Mountain Meadow Massacre some twenty years earlier. I can certainly identify with scapegoats but reading Sally Denton's new book, American Massacre, which researched the incident in remarkable depth then unfortunately calls it the worst case of terrorism in this country before 9/11 (what about the Lawrence Kansas raid not many years later? OK it might have been an overzealous editor.) John D. Lee comes off as a monster who as a Danite perpetrated an act of deceit so treacherous that it was compared by Dale Walker in Legends and Lies to the fase promise by Dhondu Pant (Nana Sahib) at Cawnpore only months earlier. This horrific event is described in detail by Christopher Hibbert in The Great Mutiny, India 1857.
Any of the three make a better read than this thread. I'm getting back to the finish of the Denton work.
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 7:24 AM
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Sorry folks. By the time I finished posting with one finger...
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 7:26 AM
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so much for Dangle rising to the occasion
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rocknroll
Feb 3, 2005, 7:31 AM
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Ron
Don't be so self conscious...that post wasn't about you. Just killing time waiting for your version of the court case/ timbertop story.
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 7:51 AM
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Same advice.
Hold your breath and guess which finger. Keep holding.
Back to the book.
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 10:00 AM
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The book was great. I again give it thumbs up.
And speaking of fingers apologize for missing the l in false.
Most of my missed letters are from the current bout of ulnar tunnel syndrome of the LEFT arm that saw me wearing a device at OR. It has nearly subsided since and the error alluded to was an l which is right handed.
That is if I was NOT typing with one finger.
To the reader;
The common erroneous belief that thumbs up from the Roman Emperor was a signal for mercy is misplaced transference.
Thumbs down meant sheath your sword.
Thumbs up meant off with the head.
Well come on. This IS supposed to be a history thread.
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dangle
Feb 3, 2005, 10:25 AM
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Don't read me wrong. Ridley Scott is great.
And his premier film The Duellists is one of the finest offerings in cinema history.
Curiously it is the story of a feud that lasts for decades and has a partial basis in fact. More curiously the crew of the film discovered in making the Joseph Conrad book into a film that it had indeed been based on a real life feud and occurred near that very location as well. And not to beat a curious horse, my father just like Joseph Conrad learned english as a third language in his twenties. Before his death he had a far greater command of it than most for whom it was sole tongue. And of course Conrad, a polish merchant seaman, is acknowleged as one of the greats of english literature.
Just weird I guess.
Good night.
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ron_jeremy
Feb 3, 2005, 4:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Dave Jones is a sandbagging MF'er. Omak Crack=12a? Might have well called it I'm On Crack. Nice one there Way off thread, but I'll pitch in. Omak Crack (or Omakulate Conception)....great route in the Omak area of Okanogan Valley in Washington State. Took me three (or 4?) concerted afternoon efforts to get up it on lead...all trad. Frankly, I don't think I'm capable of putting up anything harder than a 5.12a on lead in that manner, but if you want to jack up the rating so be it. Maybe you've spent a little too much time in the 'soft' Valley World of ratings. No move on Omak is harder than solid 5.11, just a lot of hard moves in a row which made me give it the 'token' 5.12a. If you thought that was sandbag, you probably thought all the other ones at Omak are sandbag. And if you thought those were sandbag....I'd avoid going to Zion.....
Dave, it's your route. And a seriously proud one. Far be it from me to change anything about it. I've just watched it bout some climbers that were way solid at that grade and know a couple other strong climbers that travelled there for what seemed like years before redpointing it.
It's also kicked my ass all three times I've been on it, and a couple of those times I was climbing significantly above the given rating (at least according to the El Softo Valley Rating System).
Oh yeah, with the exception of Gravitons (saving that one for the OS), I didn't think any of the other climbs there were hard for the grade. (Possible stars were aligned and you were in sendomatic mode during the Conception?)
Enjoying the thread, although it's starting to get a bit one sided now. Perhaps time to end the suffering and just out all the facts since the rebuttals have grown weak?
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ron_jeremy
Feb 3, 2005, 4:54 PM
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In reply to: If I had to wager a guess....I'd say What's up Morgan??? Dude everybody know's that Arrowhead is soft.....after all i hear they recruit from those sissy's over at Yosemite Helitack!! josh ps LF was 2 years ago....
Morgan? As in the infamous Morgan Pierre? Alas, I am not him and he is not me but I know him well.
"Why's your eye all red Nan?
And the timeless:
"If you aren't getting laid, it's time to lower your standards".
Unfortunately, nothing so brilliant ever passes my lips.
Ah yes, the sissies over at YH, quite the life they live. Almost as sorry ass as a Region Two Hotshot Crew, eh? Any crew that would hire two of the Gleason brothers, well hell, need I go on? One I could excuse for lack of judgement, but two?
But at least they're not Arrowhead. I could digress for hours on their specific lameness but I'll save us all the pain.
Sorry about the mistaken date on LF, Jon did say you were the best non homoerotic spooning ledge partner to ever hold him close, but in an entirely not gay way.
I say what happens on the wall, stays on the wall.
Carry on.
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 5:33 PM
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Dangle says...
In reply to: Just weird I guess.
Boy, you got that dead to rights.
Now, gentle thread reader, we are witnessing Dangle's classic avoidance behavior when it comes to discussing things (i.e. his own history as it involves others) he doesn't wish to.
All of a sudden we're off into Joseph Conrad. Maybe Dangle has a Heart of Darkness complex.
O.K.....let's do a recap as to why this thread took off. I promise it is the last time I will discuss this, but I am not going to let Dangle get away with his current effort to appear above it all and a victim.
Dangle and I used to be friends. Routes we did together, in chronological order: Moonlight Buttress (early ascent), Archangel (2nd ascent?), and Spaceshot (1st ascent). I used to have the dates hardwired in my memory, but Dangle's constant revisionism has so muddled things that I just can't recall the exact years (79-80 is my guess, but I'll check with my slide covers). After Spaceshot, Dangle and I remained friends, but I decided that I needed to climb with partners who were more interested in putting up the kind of routes I wanted to: pushing aid and free standards to a higher level. Ironically, I was probably one of the ONLY partners Dangle EVER had who he could 'get along with' on a route. He was, and obviously is, particular as to doing things properly and efficiently and, luckily, I was, if nothing else, on top of getting up walls in such a manner. As a result we had minimal hassles, but he would ceaselessly berate my partners who weren't quite up to his standards.
So I drifted apart from climbing with Dangle, although he and I, along with friends I brought to Zion, would hang together at times and keep in touch. At times I even helped him in his little projects, like hauling half his gear up Angels Landing so he could rappel preview the upper part of Prodigal Son. I was happy to do it. At the same time, however, I was critical of other things Dangle would do. These included overdrilling, leaving lots of gear stashed on routes in progress or no longer in progress and throwing garbage off of routes with the rationale that 'I'll pick it up at the base'. But I overlooked most of this because it wasn't worth breaking a friendship over.
Then some things 'changed', instigated in part by myself. Steve Chardon and I did the second ascent of Catharsis in the Kolob only a few weeks after it had been put up by Dangle and Pey. We freed all but about 50 feet or so. I was keenly upset over one relatively easy 5.9 CRACK that had something like 3 drilled holes to get over a cruxy section. Never mind you could have aided the crack. Free, it was hardly even a crux move, just standard crack climbing, and well-protected. Upon returning to the Visitor's Center and the filed topo books I annotated the topo with a red pen indicating what we had freed on the 2nd ascent and commenting on the lack of need for the drilled holes. I didn't obliterate anything, but wrote over in red pen and put our names and dates as to the 2nd ascent. Keep in mind that there is a second set of copies the park maintains (or maintained) and, of course, Dangle had his own original.
Sometime later the head ranger, a friend of mine, is talking to me and starts giving me grief over destroying Dangle's topo. Huh??? This ranger was not a climber and didn't understand that climbing notebooks are meant to contain UPDATES and ADDITIONAL information on routes. I calmly explained that it is traditional to update routes to the degree to which they have been subsequently freed. And, again, nothing was destroyed, only annotated. But what was most revealing, was that it bothered Dangle so much. This started a lot of tension between us, although we still remained 'friends'.
But another important 'break' occurred. Let's start with giving Dangle credit, as I always have and always will. Dangle chose the line Spaceshot, and I helped him put it up, in fact leading at least 70% plus of the first ascent, albeit with the bolt ladders already in place (that will be the subject of another story on this thread). Dangle also turned Steve Chardon and I onto the line of Shune's Buttress, but of course he never thought we would get up it, but we did (thanks Dangle). However, I subsequently came to note that ANY line I might see was already claimed by Dangle to be HIS by virtue of having SEEN it. So I came up with a really, really simple solution to this problem: stop talking to Dangle about routes in Zion. So I did. Never talked to him since about any first ascent in Zion.
Subsequent to that, 100% of the wall first ascents I've done in the park have been lines I've personally selected. ALL of them, despite what Dangle might say. I've also 'lost' a few that I had intended on doing, like the Smoots BEAUTIFUL 'Crack in the Cosmic Egg', and the recently climbed 'The Big Easy' on Moroni. Oh yeah, and I had rope-solo started what is now the 'Swiss-American' route on Angels Landing many years before Middendorff did it.
Anyway, I simply went about my business and started putting up routes, ignoring Dangle in the process. Apparently, this didn't sit too well. Incredibly, I heard stories about his whining about my 'just coming in and doing all these routes' and also 'he should put up routes other people can do'. Funny, I thought the point was to do routes and not worry about what othes were doing.
But we still hung together on occasion, and I had no personal animosity towards Dangle, despite that fact that he had alienated several of my partners in the past. I was almost PROUD of the fact that I could maintain our friendship through all of his histri-RON-ics.
Then, with Devo present, Dangle pulled the behavior that triggered his dragging me into court, which, as you might expect, terminated our friendship. (I'll tell that story in full a little later).
After our 'breakup', I ignored Dangle entirely. However, around the time of the court case Dangle had recently completed (with Devo) a veritable siege ascent of Equinox (or whatever the heck it is called) to the left of Spaceshot. Within a week or so of its first ascent, as a route with LOTS of aid in it, George Allen and I went up and did the complete second ascent all free with no hangs or falls, no pins, no fixed ropes, no topo. This was just after Dangle had screwed me with his lawsuit, so I decided to rub his face in it. I wrote up a new topo and renamed his Equinox 'Babes in the Sandbox'. You will note that, typical of Dangle's penchant to obscure any history involving me, he deceiptfully reports this route as all free mentioning only he and Devo as the first ascencionists. The particular reason for my ire about this route is that Dangle had left garbage, cans, and fixed ropes all over this route. Really bad form. Not to mention a lot of unnecessary drilling.
This upset Dangle. But that's his problem: he is the first to rag on other people but doesn't accept responsibility for what he does and what he propogates. Not to mention the fact that he had just royally screwed me in court.
So, even after the court case, I decide that ignoring Dangle completely is the best way to go. I never indulged myself in seeking ANY attention to my routes in Zion. I had several different people approach me for topos (Harlin and Middendorff among others) and my topos were always available from the Park guidebooks. So, silly me, I just went off doing routes, keeping to myself, neither writing articles nor making videos, nor attending AAC meetings, etc, etc. Never wrote or participated in the writing of ANY history. Never once saw any copy of any guide that went to press. No one asked my opinion. No problem. Low profile....I was just there to climb and have fun. I even, holding my breath, refused to respond to Dangle's increasing and incessant attacks against me.
What attacks, you ask? A truly bizarre pattern started to emerge. On at least half a dozen occasions I would get calls from friends and/or magazine editors asking about the vitriolic rantings of Dangle against me in PUBLIC, badmouthing me in front of anyone and everyone who would listen. After writing the article 'BG Goes to Zion' Michael Kennedy calls me up and says someone had gotten the idea I had written it about Scott Fischer and had written a scathing rebuttal. Huh?? I explained to Michael that it was a fictitious story (he already knew that he said) and had nothing to do with Scott, a guy I didn't even know and had NEVER EVEN HAD A CONVERSATION WITH OTHER THAN TO SAY HELLO. I recall how odd it was, I thought, that a silly article could trigger such wrath, the reader apparently, and ironically, missing entirely the put-down on pretntious climbers of ANY KIND and ANY PLACE. But I suppose none are so blind as those who cannot see.
Another time my good friend Bob Yoho calls me up from and AAC meeting and says, 'Hey Dave, there is this asshole walking around badmouthing you to anyone and everyone who will listen. I am about ready to punch the S.O.B. out.' Bob and I did the F.A. of 'Hello Marylou' together on the Angelino Wall in Zion.
Another time I get the 2nd hand information that the editors of one climbing magazine nervously had to edit out considerable portions of a Dangle article about Zion because of what they considered to be 'libelous slander' against yours truly.
This had gone on for almost 20 years folks, and I have never ONCE taken the bait and responded.
Now...getting to the crux....let's examine why Dangle behaves this way. I don't write, don't talk about Dangle, don't go to any climbing functions or trade shows or movie events. I don't participate in Zion histories (although I informally participated in a totally impromptu recent video interview by someone whom I won't name so that Dangle won't cause him any 'problems') I just climb and put up routes and ignore him. Apparently this upsets him, but why?
Could it be that?:
1) I've put up more new wall routes in Zion than he has (20 plus)
2) My routes are all of a higher standard of both aid and free climbing than his routes.
2) I climb with an array of great folks I am happy to call my friends and climbing partners many of whom, happen to be, famous as well.
3) I've remained as low-profile as I can be (and somehow this is twisted into a conspiracy on my part to re-write Zion history!!????)
4) I ignore Dangle as irrelevant to my climbing and my life (until now).
5) I'm one of the only people who has told Dangle to bug-off to his face.
So, why respond now?
Simple. Someone told me that Dangle was participating in a thread shitting all over me. Sure enough I checked it out, and there he is blathering on in a fantasy world where I am 'lying' about routes and trying to write Scott Fishcer out of Zion climbing history. Truly, truly, bizarre and disturbing behavior on Dangle's part. It is all made up, all in his head.
Well, Dangle blew it this time, because I am not only going to throw it back at his face for the patent B.S. that it is, but further he has opened himself up to an exposure of his sordid and sad history of behaviors and actions which will now find a public forum. No one deserves more of an upcommance than he.
And, most interestingly, you will note that Dangle started this mudslinging, has been doing so for YEARS, and now when confronted by his own bad behavior (remember, in this thread he admitted to repeatedly lying about who he did the FA of Spaceshot with) he tries to repeatedly change the subject. Thread readers will note that he hasn't responded to even a SINGLE criticism lodged against him.
Stay tuned for installments on 'the court case' and 'Timbertop'.
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dmckj
Feb 3, 2005, 5:43 PM
Post #150 of 667
(72070 views)
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Registered: May 7, 2004
Posts: 115
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To Ron_Jeremy,
Please...stop... you're making me blush.....
Omak Crack (Phil Gleasons original name for it incidently) is, I think, one of the 5-star rotes in Washington.
I was putting up all of those Omak routes in a complete void, because the local guys weren't yet putting up routes at that level, and it is always disconcerting to rate stuff without confirmation. So, sorry if Omak appears to be a sandbag.
Good luck on Gravitons....another fine, fine one pitcher. If you're going for an onsight, be SURE to rest and shake out at the locker one handed hand jam just before the cruxy finish. If you don't you are SUNK.
I am pleased as punch that someone is climbing those routes. They are really nice!
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