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Is Jacks soft?
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sierrabc


Feb 5, 2005, 6:57 PM
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Is Jacks soft?  (North_America: United_States: Arizona: Northern: Jacks_Canyon)
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Does everyone think Jacks is soft? I like it there, but maybe I haven't climbed at enough places to know. I guess what matters is having fun, on 5.0 or 5.15.
Happy Sending!
Sierra


Partner gunksgoer


Feb 5, 2005, 7:10 PM
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i havnt been there, but from what ive heard about it, its one of those kinda "if you dont like the route, wait a week"places. seems like it gets lotsa bad hype.


hello_heino


Feb 5, 2005, 7:13 PM
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If Hacks was my only place to climb at I would play Lawn Darts instead.


climbingaz


Feb 5, 2005, 7:48 PM
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YES! But does wonders for your ego.


phugganut


Feb 5, 2005, 8:26 PM
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Yes the ratings there are generally very soft. However, today I climbed what has to be the easiest 5.10c in the world at Queen Creek, so I guess it all depends.


climbsomething


Feb 5, 2005, 8:36 PM
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In reply to:
i havnt been there, but from what ive heard about it, its one of those kinda "if you dont like the route, wait a week"places. seems like it gets lotsa bad hype.
Huh? The rock quality is actually pretty good.

Some routes are soft- Blackened, Winner Takes All. Some routes are right on, and a few are actually stiff. People who have actually been there, and have been there more than once, know when and how to parrot the spray.


Partner gunksgoer


Feb 5, 2005, 8:40 PM
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yeah ive also heard stuff like "wich is softer, the grades or the rock?" maybe its just all rummors...still, im not gonna go there


phugganut


Feb 5, 2005, 8:45 PM
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In reply to:
yeah ive also heard stuff like "wich is softer, the grades or the rock?" maybe its just all rummors...still, im not gonna go there

No, the rock seems quite nice for sport climbing; it's the ratings (and the ethics) that are soft. But hey, it can be a fun place to climb for the weekend if you're in the mood for that kind of thing. Great campsites too.


childofthecorn


Feb 5, 2005, 9:07 PM
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Yeah sure, the grades are soft - but the climbing is awesome. There are few places I have ever been where there is a 5.12 right next to a 5.8 - and they both are great. Give the canyon a try - and you will really come away with a feeling of excitement and love for climbing - just pure climbing. The nights are fun - campfires (bring your own firewood) and the rest days are great (go see the big asteroid crater) - and you can get your first 5.12 redpoint - although it's only 10+ - hee hee
Don't diss the canyon - its a calm, uncrowded, and awesome place to sport climb!!!
That is all
S


curt


Feb 5, 2005, 10:37 PM
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Is Jacks soft?

No. I'm pretty sure that if you can lead 5.12 at Jacks, you will also have no problem sending 5.12 in the Gunks. Please test out my thesis and let me know what you think.

Curt


bighigaz


Feb 5, 2005, 10:50 PM
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The first time I visited Jacks, I thought it was very generous... However, first impressions can sometimes be misleading.

IMO the easy to moderate routes (say, 5.10ish and under) can be a little random... and yes, sometimes soft...

But I think most of the harder routes, (say, 5.10+ and up) tend to be pretty acurate...

That being said, my first (hang dogged) 5.12 was at Jacks... and yes it was a little soft. But the following day I got on an 11... "c" I think... and thought it was much more difficult than the neighboring 12 from the day before...

I guess to sum it all up... IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! Jacks is so much fun!!!!


rock_rookie


Feb 6, 2005, 6:43 AM
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In my opinion, I think the 'softness' of a route grade can be very dependent on the climber's state of mind at the time, combined with the climber's individual style. Recently (and this is embarassing!) I completely freaked myself out on a wimpy roof-into-a-crack move on a 5.7... yet the very next day sent a sustained 10b.

I've enjoyed Jack's Canyon every time I've been there - I'm new to this sport, and I find the routes to be well-bolted and it is a good place to learn to lead. Confidence builds fast! The rock is very nice, also. I once watched a fellow climb there who only clipped every other bolt - for him the routes were too 'safe' I guess, so that's how he increased the challenge for himself.

Anyway, everybody has a different favorite spot, but overall it is a neat location, the camping is free, and any place that I can sport climb in JANUARY (I'm from Canada - brrrrr!!!), I will definitely return to!

Cheers.


sonso45


Feb 6, 2005, 7:26 AM
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Jack's is safe, fun and the routes are quality. For a sport haven it's great. I think more people should go there. M


disturbingthepeace


Feb 6, 2005, 9:20 AM
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Personally I feel that Jack's is a great place to sport climb, it is warm enough through most of the winter, and there is always something in the shade in the summer.
As far as grades go, the grading there is all over the place. Anything that is graded 10a or 11a is probably very soft. however the higher 11's and 12's feel more accurate. I have heard that this is because the main developers all climbed 12'and 13's so they really couldn't grade the easier climbs accuratly.


jt512


Feb 6, 2005, 9:30 AM
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In reply to:

As far as grades go, the grading there is all over the place. Anything that is graded 10a or 11a is probably very soft. however the higher 11's and 12's feel more accurate.

I haven't climbed extensively at Jacks, but my impressions have been just the opposite of yours. I onsighted this beautiful 10a arete there, which felt like 10a in Yosemite, and felt like a hero. But everything I've climed there from 11c to 12b felt one to two letter grades soft.

-Jay


disturbingthepeace


Feb 6, 2005, 6:09 PM
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Well the grades are definitly varied, I feel that some of the climbs were rated harder to offset the fact that many of the climbs are rated soft. What's a 10a on one cliff maybe a 9 or 10c on another. As far as the harder grades 11c to 12b, that is at my limit (so it is difficult to grade +/- a letter), but they felt consistent with other crags in NM. I have just found alot (not all) of the 10a and 11a very easy. Maybe it is the same with 12a, but I haven't redpointed any there yet.

In reply to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

disturbingthepeace wrote:

As far as grades go, the grading there is all over the place. Anything that is graded 10a or 11a is probably very soft. however the higher 11's and 12's feel more accurate.

JT512 wrote:

I haven't climbed extensively at Jacks, but my impressions have been just the opposite of yours. I onsighted this beautiful 10a arete there, which felt like 10a in Yosemite, and felt like a hero. But everything I've climed there from 11c to 12b felt one to two letter grades soft.

-Jay


armstrong


Feb 9, 2005, 1:46 PM
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I have only been to Jack's once. I had a great time and the climbs are well bolted but I on-sighted Jack and the Bean Stalk which is a 11b. I have hardly climbed an 11b let alone on-sight one. From my little experience, I think at least one climb at Jack's is soft! But it sure made me feel like a champ that day!


jcinco


Feb 9, 2005, 2:43 PM
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Some areas at Jacks are softer than others. For example, I find the routes at Cracker Jack to be extremely soft, sometimes as much as 2-3 letter grades off. Main Wall is soft compared to say Rifle, but in general I've found the grades on that crag are fairly consistent with sport grades elsewhere. If your anaerobic fitness is low, however, then you're likely to consider the Main Wall ratings to be stout and you'll get spanked.


mandrake


Feb 9, 2005, 2:56 PM
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[quote="disturbingthepeace"]Well the grades are definitly varied, I feel that some of the climbs were rated harder to offset the fact that many of the climbs are rated soft.
In reply to:

Yeah, I'll second this one. Some are soft, some not. Not a big deal if you get sandbagged, though, as bolts are close together.

Also, my theory is that those of us who spend time in the gym find the pocketed limestone climbing easier to figure out. The holds are well-defined, like gym climbs. This is unlike, say, granite sport climbing on Lemmon or Isle of You where you've got to figure out which tiny, multicolored nubbins and toe scunges yer gonna use.

The rock quality's fine. It's a fun place. You can arrive at 1 on Saturday, and by 1 on Sunday be completely beat down by two full days of (sport) climbing. Not super big adventure but it is what it is. Bret


climbaddic


Feb 9, 2005, 3:22 PM
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My home crag is Queen Creek (QC) in Phoenix area. I am guessing QC is about right on rating. Using that as my standard. I would rate the routes I have done to following ratings. Remember this is my opinion and guess from my memory, and remember IT IS ONLY A GUESS.

Jack's Back Rated 5.11a Probably around 5.10c
Bull in a China Shop Rated 5.11b/c Probably around 5.10c
Genesis Rated 5.10d Probably around 5.10b
Power Trip Rated 5.11c Probably around 5.11b
Swiss Miss Rated 5.11b Probably around 5.10c
Take the Money and Run Rated 5.11c Probably around 5.11a
High Roller Rated 5.12a Probably around 5.11b
Male Basher Rated 5.12b Probably around 5.11c
CrossTown Traffic Rated 5.11a Probably around 5.10b


moonshine505


Feb 9, 2005, 3:38 PM
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to paraphrase the guidebook I used when I was there, "the rock is reminiscent of the finest european limestone" and the neighbring town of winslow offers "a host of rest-day activites". I still laugh when I think of how Climbing described winslow as "uber-depressing", they couldn't be more correct. And as far as the routes/rock, Jacks seems to be a great place to climb marshmallow soft routes on sinker drilled out pockets and chiseled slots as most of the routes I got on were heavily manufactured and significantly overgraded. I onsighted several ".12a" routes in an afternoon there when I was a struggling 5.11 climber at every other crag (and gym) I visited. Seriously, though, I've got a lot against Jacks, but if you live close to it, then maybe it's not that bad, I just wouldn't go back.


reno


Feb 9, 2005, 3:45 PM
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I felt the routes I did there were a bit easy for the grade, but I have only been there once and have only done 8 or 9 routes, so my experience is rather limited.

Since I suck, I reckon that any crag where I can flash a .10c with no falls has to be over-graded.


climbsomething


Feb 11, 2005, 4:33 PM
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My home crag is Queen Creek (QC) in Phoenix area. I am guessing QC is about right on rating.
Well, there's your problem. Get out more. QC is not the standard in any way for sport climbing. I've known climbers who can redpoint 11b elsewehere and hangdog 9s there.

In reply to:
The rock is very nice, also. I once watched a fellow climb there who only clipped every other bolt - for him the routes were too 'safe' I guess, so that's how he increased the challenge for himself.
He was probably showing off :roll: I don't consider Jacks overbolted, I consider it well-bolted. I have had bolts more than an inch under my feet before.


climbsomething


Feb 11, 2005, 4:41 PM
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In reply to:
Is Jacks soft?

No. I'm pretty sure that if you can lead 5.12 at Jacks, you will also have no problem sending 5.12 in the Gunks. Please test out my thesis and let me know what you think.

Curt
I think you should test that theory yourself ;) Ever been to Jacks?


raymondjeffrey


Jun 6, 2005, 5:09 PM
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The grading can cause an interesting debate, but if you go to Jacks: don't forget the bug spray. You will be swiping at skeeters more than anything else.

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