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rck_climber
Dec 17, 2004, 9:44 PM
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Well, I've put it off for several years now, but can't stand it any longer....
I've had multi-directional instability in both my shoulders for about 10 years now, although progressively worse in the last 3 years. My climbing has gone downhill for some time, but now it's gotten to the point on my right shoulder where climbing is no longer much fun since the pain takes a great deal of the enjoyment away. So, after putting it off for roadtrip after roadtrip and summer after summer, I finally gave in and am going under the knife soon (Jan. 4th) and will have an open posterior/inferior capsular shift done on my right shoulder.
My surgeon said my problem is pretty rare and very hard to fix surgically. He has given me about a 50% chance of a 75% recovery ~ not very good odds, and is unsure whether I'll be able to climb again or not. This doesn't matter much to me, because I'm determined to climb again - at least in some capacity. Sure I might not climb the difficulties that I once did, but if I have to I'll climb 5.5's all day long and be grateful that I'm still out there.
I would like to hear from some others though, to see if anyone else has come back from a major shoulder reconstruction to climb again. If so, how does the shoulder feel now; how much did your difficulty level drop after coming back; how long did it take to get back on the rock?
I was back on the rock 5 days after my elbow surgery (in a sling, 5 days later without it), and back to 80% within a month, so I know how to really push myself during recovery; but the doc said it will be 12-24 months before I can get back on the rock, if at all. This is what has me most concerned. Any insight others might be able to offer would be greatly appreciated.
Mick
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slavetogravity
Dec 17, 2004, 10:26 PM
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For any climber coming back from an injury and who is full of self doubt. My advice is go read “This Game of Ghosts” by Joe Simpson. It basically takes off from where “Touching the Void” Ended and follows Joes unbelievable recovery from his horrific leg injury. It follows Joes accident prone beginnings. To his accident, to the doctors basically telling him that he wasn’t going to be able to walk again, to him heading off to a Himalayan expedition. Very inspiring.
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oklahoma_climber
Dec 17, 2004, 10:55 PM
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sounds to me like you might want to consider taking a much more serious break than you have been. "putting off surgery" for years at a time, and climbing on a sugically repaired ___(fill in the blank)___ indicates that you've not been taking prime care of your body. Everything in your body and mind benifits from rest... everything. taking 6-8 months off after surgery might cure, or atleast greatly improve, your ailments.
just one man's opinion. best of luck to you and prayers for your surgeon.
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send513
Dec 17, 2004, 11:07 PM
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time off, rest, and LISTENING to your body are all key to keeping it healthy
I am just coming off 4 months off from a shoulder injury at well, and though I am not as strong as I once was... I find that I LOVE climbing that much more and just being excited about climbing has made a huge difference in HOW I cliimb.
:-)
good luck, do your PT, and do NOT BE AFRAID to back off it is hurts, your body is a smart thing!
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rck_climber
Dec 18, 2004, 12:12 AM
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies.
I will definitely take it easy. What I failed to mention in my original post is that the first climbing trip after my elbow surgery, I slipped (on the ground of all places) and instinctively reached out with my bum arm and tore all of the internal stitches in my tendon and muscle. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I certainly learned not to come back too quickly after surgery. That's also partly due to some vague directions from the doc, who didn't say how long I had to stay off it; once I got the bandages and brace off he just said to start back slow, so the next day I climbed some easy routes that I knew well - guess that's not what he meant by slow.
I plan to listen to the doc this time and not push things until he gives me the okay to start really cranking on PT. It's really just a matter of how much range of motion I can get back after they let the scar tissue build up - that's what will most likely inhibit my climbing. Well, that and the fear that one wrong move will undo the entire surgery, even years later.
Despite the inability to keep it in socket, my shoulder is very strong from more than 18 months of PT, so I'm hoping that will also help to speed up my recovery time.
Anyway, thanks for all the input guys. I'm still interested to hear if someone else had a similar surgery and how much range of motion they lost in their shoulder.
Mick
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quikie
Jan 5, 2005, 12:51 AM
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How did the surgery go?
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healyje
Jan 5, 2005, 1:40 AM
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If you are feeling relatively strong, but just unstable then I would recommend you start doing Astanga Yoga - pick up Beryl Bender Birch's book (she is a trainer for the NYC Running/Marathon/Triathon crowd).
If you go this route you can't dabble - it has to be a daily practice - not a couple of times a week deal, if you really want to see some results. Just start with sun salutations and keep it going. Downward Facing Dog in particular is good for shoulder instability problems. I don't have quite the shoulder issues as you, but I've come back from pretty drastic rotator cuff conditions this way.
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onsight_endorphines
Jan 5, 2005, 2:00 AM
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Hi Mick and All,
Mick I like your approach. If I ever hurt myself seriously, or something goes awry with my body someday I hope that I would say the same thing. I know a one-armed climber that has adopted this attitude and he climbs harder than I do at ~5.10b. I have never had problems with my shoulders or anything else, I just wanted to mention these things.
Oklahoma_Climber said:
In reply to: Everything in your body and mind benifits from rest... everything. taking 6-8 months off after surgery might cure, or atleast greatly improve, your ailments.
Very good advice, and also the post about your body being a smart thing. Just listen to it as closely as you can, and definately keep dynamic powerful movements to a minimum. Actually I'd say make damn sure you don't do that at all!!
Good luck, and climb 5.easy for now if you have to. It will still be the rock, wind, and you.
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rck_climber
Feb 6, 2005, 9:58 PM
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After 3 1/2 weeks, I'm finally lucid and patient enough to peck out an update.....
The Veterans Affairs hospital finally went ahead with my shoulder surgery on January 11th, 2005. My surgeon expected the surgery to last 3-4 hours, but didn't close me up until nearly 9 hours after he began. He said it was a train wreck inside, everything was stretched out beyond recognition or torn to pieces. He said he felt he accomplished everything that he wanted to do inside, so now it's a wait and see game as we let the scar tissue build up.
Here's a couple pictures of the brace they've got me in, the principle reason I can't sleep very well, and the incision site.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=48002
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=48003
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=48004
There's still a long road of physical therapy ahead, 12-24 months according to the doc, but I hope to be back on the rock in 9 months. Will keep you all in the loop as I progress. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers - they saw me through.
Mick
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skinner
Feb 6, 2005, 10:25 PM
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Well, if it's any consolation, I broke my back in 4 places. It was only a few years ago that I was barely able to get out of bed or even walk. Years spent on massive amounts of pain killers masked the pain, but did little for my quality of life. I was taking as much as 180mg of morphine, 10mg Fentanyl, plus handfuls of Tylenol 3's each day just to function at all. I appreciated my physicians compassion and efforts in keeping me pain free, but it was stalemate between recovery and being pain free. After going through absolute hell for a month as I went cold turkey off of all the opioids, I was very lucky to find a competent physiotherapist who communicated directly with my physician and began an exercise regiment to strengthen and build the muscles so they would compensate in supporting my back. Needles to say, I am back climbing Rock, Snow, and Ice routes that I thought I would never be able to do again.
I told you all that babble to just emphasize how much can be accomplished by working with a competent physiotherapist and that injuries that seem totally debilitating can be overcome if you are determined enough.
Just my 2 cents worth :wink:
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rck_climber
Feb 6, 2005, 10:35 PM
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In reply to: Well, if it's any consolation, I broke my back in 4 places.
THAT is inspirational - the fact that you had the courage to fight back from such a serious injury to climb again. My scrape is nothing compared to that. I have no doubt that I'll climb again, it's just a matter of how much range of motion I will be able to recoup.
Thanks for that uplifting story.
Mick
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healyje
Feb 6, 2005, 11:01 PM
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Hey, that looks pretty brutal. I broke my back some years ago in a minor way, but was still in a clamshell rig for six months - not fun. I know it will be a while, but I'd again really recommend the Astanga yoga (particularly Downard Facing Dog position) for your shoulder.
It isn't the sort of thing you want to dabble in, though, if you want any benefit from it. You'd need to do the sun salutations at least five times a week if not everyday for close to a year to really see a total result and recovery I suspect.
Again, it will probably be a long while before you could begin a practice but I'd recommend keeping it in mind as your recovery advances...
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rck_climber
Feb 6, 2005, 11:43 PM
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Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely keep it in mind when I get to that point.
I forgot to mention the worst part....
Apparently, they were a bit rough when they were doing the exam while I was under anesthesia - they bruised my ribs on my "good" side from working so hard on my shoulder. I've got a huge pocket of fluid (hematoma) on my left ribcage that has rendered my left arm almost unusable as well. It's gotten much better over the last 3 1/2 weeks, but right after surgery the pain from my ribs was much worse than from my shoulder.
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skinner
Feb 6, 2005, 11:46 PM
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I should also mention that rc.com deserves some of the credit.
I initially emailed epic_ed who encouraged me to post to rc.com. I must give credit where credit is due. Reading inspirational TR's and listening to some very experienced and competent people explaining techniques that had developed in my absence gave me a great boost to get my a$$ out there and just do it. No matter if it only started out as me being a belay slave to a bunch of rock-rats (kids)
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skinner
Feb 7, 2005, 12:08 AM
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What I have learned from my (7) surgeries, is not to even worry about much accept, rest and not doing anything where you could possibly re-injure yourself for AT LEAST 6 weeks. And yes.. if you knew how brutal they actually are during surgery, you would probably think twice about hopping on the operating table!
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rck_climber
Feb 8, 2005, 9:15 PM
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Yeah, I've been listening to doc this time and have been in that contraption for exactly 4 weeks, and still have at least 2-4 more weeks in it. I'm following his orders closely this time. Will let you know how well it recovers.
Mick
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aimeerose
Feb 9, 2005, 5:43 AM
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Do what your physical therapist says and you should at least be able to climb to some extent in the future. It's just going to take a while. And being strong will help A LOT with your recovery. I've seen the difference in trained vs untrained people after surgery.
And everyone with shoulder injuries please be very careful with healyje's advice. Yoga isn't always the answer. Especially for people with instabilites- the last thing they need is to be more flexible!
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epic_ed
Feb 9, 2005, 6:24 AM
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Kevin (Skinner), you rock, bro. That's a hardcore come back and I'm looking forward to hearing about your successes this year as you venture back into the climbing game. I hope we can meet up in Zion.
Mick -- dude, that looks like hell. And to make matters worse, I know where you're stuck doing your recuperation. Who was the butcher? The VA in Dayton? Christ, I hope not. I wish you the best for a full and speedy recovery, bro. If you can make it living a few years in the Dayton area without losing your mind, you can do just about anything. :wink:
Ed
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healyje
Feb 9, 2005, 10:58 AM
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In reply to: Do what your physical therapist says and you should at least be able to climb to some extent in the future. It's just going to take a while. And being strong will help A LOT with your recovery. I've seen the difference in trained vs untrained people after surgery. And everyone with shoulder injuries please be very careful with healyje's advice. Yoga isn't always the answer. Especially for people with instabilites- the last thing they need is to be more flexible!
As someone with both rotator cuff and a history of shoulder instability I can assure you the sun salutations and most of the first series asanas of Astanga yoga will do nothing but help strengthen and stabilize your shoulders. There are some in the first series and many in the second series you might avoid, but by the time you got to those you'd know exactly which ones those are.
Again, get Beryl Bender Birch's book and she discusses many of these issues.
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joebanks
Feb 9, 2005, 2:00 PM
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In reply to: Well, if it's any consolation, I broke my back in 4 places.
I see a couple of posts where individuals broke their backs, was it from a rock climbing fall? I broke mine in 3 places from a 75 footer to the deck but recovered 100%, heels still hurt though. Lots of physio but am nearly back up to climbing where I was (5.12/ WI5/ C4). I'm finding the biggest hurdle is getting the leading head back though, this will likely never come back 100%. Any others fighting demons from a decking groundfall?
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j_ung
Feb 9, 2005, 2:24 PM
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This is a good thread. I encourage you to continue to post to it throughout youe recovery. Maybe your story will become someone else's inspiration. :D
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ikefromla
Feb 9, 2005, 3:43 PM
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along these lines i can cite my mother as an example.. she had a very serious skiing injury three years ago and was told that she might never WALK again. the determined woman that she is, she went through two serious surgeries, spent a lot of time waiting in a wheelchair, and when the time was right, took her therapy VERY seriously. she has recovered 100% and is back to both skiing AND climbing, which she had not done for years prior to her accident. yeh, that's right, i said it. my mom is an inspiration. :)
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aimeerose
Feb 10, 2005, 12:43 AM
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In reply to: As someone with both rotator cuff and a history of shoulder instability I can assure you the sun salutations and most of the first series asanas of Astanga yoga will do nothing but help strengthen and stabilize your shoulders.
As I remember, plank position is part of a sun salutation. This position puts much strain on the anterior part of the shoulder, which is stressful on the proximal long head biceps tendon. Many climbers suffer from biceps tendonitis in this region and that will do nothing but inflame it. Also, if someone has anterior instability (the most common type) this is not a good position for them to be in for prolonged periods. Just some things to consider from the physiological viewpoint- not just the antedotal one.
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healyje
Feb 10, 2005, 1:13 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: As someone with both rotator cuff and a history of shoulder instability I can assure you the sun salutations and most of the first series asanas of Astanga yoga will do nothing but help strengthen and stabilize your shoulders. As I remember, plank position is part of a sun salutation. This position puts much strain on the anterior part of the shoulder, which is stressful on the proximal long head biceps tendon. Many climbers suffer from biceps tendonitis in this region and that will do nothing but inflame it. Also, if someone has anterior instability (the most common type) this is not a good position for them to be in for prolonged periods. Just some things to consider from the physiological viewpoint- not just the antedotal one.
Yes it is, but until strength is built up the recommendation is to do it with your knees on the ground greatly reducing these stresses. Most every position has an alternate beginners position to use until your strength is built up...
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aimeerose
Feb 10, 2005, 4:55 AM
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Yeah, but what climber is going to think they are too "weak" to do a plank position?
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