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obe
Feb 7, 2005, 3:11 AM
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I think I saw some bouldering on OLN a long time ago before I got into climbing. I know tha the x-games hosts climbing. Do they show it on T.V? If so can anyone tell me where to figure out the times? Thanks
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kalcario
Feb 7, 2005, 3:48 AM
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1998 was the last year there was climbing in a North American X-Games. The next year they did a bouldering-only format, which, predictably, killed off interest in climbing in the X-Games...much like bouldering is killing off interest in climbing in general.
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oklahoma
Feb 7, 2005, 3:53 AM
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If anything, bouldering has increased interest in climbing.
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csgambill
Feb 7, 2005, 3:57 AM
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I think I'd rather watch golf than bouldering.
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rockrat_co
Feb 7, 2005, 4:01 AM
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Agree, it may be fun to do, but watching sport comps is definately more intertaining...golf, maby once im dead!
later,
rockrat_co
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pushsendnorcal
Feb 7, 2005, 4:28 AM
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In reply to: 1998 was the last year there was climbing in a North American X-Games. The next year they did a bouldering-only format, which, predictably, killed off interest in climbing in the X-Games...much like bouldering is killing off interest in climbing in general.
The idea that bouldering killed off any interest in climbing for the X-games is false and set forward by the fact that you have something against bouldering.
First in the X-games, all three climbing events (bouldering, difficulty and speed existed). It was immediate that the viewership for climbing was lower than all other sports.
In an attempt to encourage people to watch climbing the X-games management did two things. (1) they increased the distance between clips for difficulty climbing in order to create sensual falls, but to no luck viewership didn't increase and the competitors that year complained heavily about the falls and threatened not to compete the following year. That following year never came, as difficulty was killed off. (2) they add more slack than necessary in the speed climbing, so that when the climber would hit the buzzer and let go, they would take a sizeable top rope fall (between 6-15 feet). Again no luck and speed climbing was cut off.
For the short time bouldering existed, the height at where the finishing hold was increased for bigger falls, larger moves were set to create purely gymnastic-like moves but the management realized that climbing and all sub-parts no matter how contrived to appear as an "extreme" sport never was convincing enough for the people watching.
The problem wasn't with any sub-part (yes that includes bouldering) the problem was that there was no apparent difficulty (from non-climbing viewers) in what the climbers were doing, there was no way to separate the field out and find out who was winning.
And yes this is happening again. First was with the PCA, which was solely an entertainment competition circuit (as it did nothing to do with world cup comps or work with adjacent american comp organizations). Big moves, big falls and a very clear cut idea of who was winning existed (but failed to work well on television). Ultimately the PCA, currently, has bottomed out with complete lack of purse prize money sponsors.
Second, is the ABS, which since I have talked to the head man Scott R. I know what I'm talking about. Scott, mentioned that Americans won't like to see climbing without there being obvious difficulty (big moves+big falls+screaming/grunting=difficulty) The first problem here is that the ABS organization serves to select a national team which will head to Europe and other places for the World Cup circuit. Which doesn't have purely gymnastic moves for their problems, every round at the world cup absolutely will have a technical "girl's" problem. This is why so few (almost none) american climbers that make it to the WC do well, WE SUCK. The second problem is that we as americans we are impatient with where climbing competitions are going, we want everything so we take short cuts and put on the most appealing side of climbing and give it to the public, the public likes it for a while, but since we can only go so far with this type of presentation, viewers get bored and turn to see the lastest 1080 sea grab variation that these snowboarders and Motocross riders are pulling off.
So for your dumb a$$ to say it was bouldering that got all climbing out of the x-games, take another look. Those who have spent some considerable time in climbing competition circuits know where I am coming from and I am mean no offense in how Scott Renek and Mechler are trying to push their respective climbing organzations, but they, in my opinion, are not looking at the big picture and are being impatient.
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blondgecko
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Feb 7, 2005, 4:52 AM
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"sensual" falls? I'm not sure what those would look like, but I think I'd like them! :twisted:
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kalcario
Feb 7, 2005, 5:27 AM
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*In an attempt to encourage people to watch climbing the X-games management did two things. (1) they increased the distance between clips for difficulty climbing in order to create sensual falls, but to no luck viewership didn't increase and the competitors that year complained heavily about the falls and threatened not to compete the following year. That following year never came, as difficulty was killed off.*
I was at the XG in San Diego, watched the finals, knew some of the competitors and hung out at an after-comp party, and never heard any complaints about "long falls", or saw any...how far can you fall on a 60' high wall?
Bouldering comps are unlike the sport climbing, "difficulty" comps in that the strongest contestant is always going to win the bouldering comp, they might just as well have the contestants do one-arms or squeeze a grip-meter or something...whereas in the difficulty comps, the strongest climber rarely makes it to the finals, the best climber does. Katie Brown and Big Frank were not power beasts, but rather superb climbers.
Another interesting phenomenom I've noticed is sport climbers winning bouldering comps fairly regularly, I had to laugh when Dani Andrada, one of Spain's best sport climbers who rarely boulders, came within a hair of winning the overall bouldering WC 2 years ago (last years was canceled...). But a boulderer (someone who just boulders) winning a difficulty comp? They don't even enter. Rumor has it that for next years bouldering WC series in Europe, they are considering banning sport climbers to give the boulderers a better chance...
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pushsendnorcal
Feb 7, 2005, 5:47 AM
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You are right that a whole set of climbers in SD didn't raise their fists but their were complaints when in the year before in the finals half way through they removed draws because people were leaving bored from watching the climbers climbing and then suddenly fall, apparently what the climbers are doing are hard.
As with sport climbers in WC circuit winning bouldering comps, very few people are able to do well in both (well=top 3). There was huge press for Sandrine Levet when she was able to get 1st overall in both bouldering and difficulty, which was extremely rare.
As for the banning sport climbers rumor, I am calling Bullsh!t on that one, there are some factors that the organizers would have to account for that would make it next to impossible in doing so. But whatever, at least we agree on the fact the competition in USA sucks ass.
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kalcario
Feb 7, 2005, 6:10 AM
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*There was huge press for Sandrine Levet when she was able to get 1st overall in both bouldering and difficulty, which was extremely rare.*
sport climbers who have won European WC bouldering comps (not the overall title), just off the top of my head
Killian Fitschhuber
Daniel Du Lac (also an alpinist)
Dani Andrada
could dig around and find a few more if you like...but it's kinda the opposite of what you might expect, isn't it, that boulderers would get beat in their own comps by sport climbers...hmm...
*But whatever, at least we agree on the fact the competition in USA sucks ass.*
bouldering itself is part of the problem, though, not part of the solution, which I doubt we agree on...
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jcshaggy
Feb 7, 2005, 2:08 PM
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Definitely one of the more interesting discussion on R.C.
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bustloose
Feb 7, 2005, 8:58 PM
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only the strongest win boulder events?? ever been to a WC comp? seen footage of one? pictures even??? those events are so diverse it's not even funny, they are not set to cater to the thugs of North American fame. you have to be strong, intelligent and very technical to do well in a WC event.
those aren't "difficulty competitors winning boulder events" those are multi discipline competitors winning events. like Sandrine. she competes in both disciplines, wins many boulder events, and occaisionally wins a difficulty event. do your homework before you spout off.
quote from an interviewer asking Sandrine about doing well in both difficulty and bouldering, and her reply.
Tu as terminé 7ème de la deuxième étape de la Coupe du Monde de difficulté à Lecco, cela veut dire que tu as également ta carte à jouer dans cette discipline ?
"La saison de bloc est terminée, je suis un peu fatiguée mais j'ai envie de faire mes preuves en difficulté. Ce serait vraiment un aboutissement de parvenir à concilier Bloc et Difficulté sans y laisser des plumes. Je me sens capable d'y arriver alors je crois qu'il faut que je me lance. Je vais tenter de récupérer et essayer de donner le meilleur de moi même. Qui sait, j'ai peut être des chances de prétendre à un podium ? "
i watched Big Frank at a PCA event several years ago, well past his prime, not much of a boulderer to begin with, but still made the finals, ahead of many 'stronger' climbers. most of the top climbers in the world will do well on boulders and routes, if they are training for both. some will do well at both by default of being disgustingly good climbers (Legrand... )
you're picking on boulderers for their training choices. of course if you train only for power on boulders you won't have the stamina to climb hard routes as well, it's a simply question of physiology.
i mean really, why can't everyone just be happy with their chosen climbing environment? will this pathetic 'argument' ever die?
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mccarthykm
Feb 7, 2005, 9:01 PM
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What about slacklining? Does anyone know if this has ever been televised?
I mean slacklining could be considered similar to skating and biking because there are tricks involved.
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gunksgoer
Feb 7, 2005, 9:20 PM
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a couple things...
first of all, i believe that speed climbing actually lasted longer then bouldering in the x-games. bouldering left in 98 i think, while speed lasted to 2002(?). I believe that the main problem with climbing in the x-games was that espn's camera crews couldnt do it justice. For bouldering to really work out, they would need to hire someone like lowell, or norope.com.
roped climbing tho would be extremely hard to televise, and i doubt it would ever make it, unless climbing suddenly became the biggest hit sport ever in the us. i also think that the lack of broken bones in the x-games climbing made it seem mellow.
(hmm, in the past 2 years ive seen broken bones at multiple comps, wich i go to for fun. seeing the bottem portion of someones leg dislocating, breaking their heel, and thrusting out thru their skin was definatly not mellow) Maybe ESPN shud get a few brits and make headpointing an event, that would probably sell!
all i can say is, it might be cool for climbing to be an event, because it would certainly drop the price of gear if lots more people got into it. :D On the other hand, i dont want them at the crag, so we shud lock them in a gym. :twisted:
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web_slave
Feb 7, 2005, 9:22 PM
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In reply to: What about slacklining?
Ahhh, no I don't think so.....
Don't get me wrong, I like slacklining.
but....I think the only people who enjoy watching slacking are the people who are waiting for their turn.
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