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curt
Dec 30, 2004, 8:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I have known John for over 20 years In reply to: You know Sherman better than I do? I doubt it. ha! pffffft! get real!! you guys are posuers. i know sherman better than both of you two guys put together. i'm the king of the "i know sherman" club. me. bvb. you two johnny-cum-latelys can sukit.That's odd, he doesn't seem to know you. Hahahaha. Curt waitaminnit goddammit...then just who the hell is this ugly assed burned-out oldskool rummy who keeps showing up at our houses unannounced, drinking our liquor, groping our wives, fondling his dog in a 'these-two-are-way-too-familiar' fashion, and flailing on our warm-ups???
OK, I was wrong. That's Sherman all right.
Curt
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tetons
Dec 30, 2004, 9:38 PM
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Use Occam's Razor here. The simplest answer is most often correct. "Follow the money." Watch for the end of Queen Creek for climbers -- it won't take long if we don't hang together. Get with it, Verm.
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dominator
Jan 2, 2005, 3:19 AM
Post #103 of 156
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John Sherman is more of a man than all you whiners put together. Bunch of numbskulls ripping on him when they don't know him or the area involved. I would do the same thing if I were him.
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dominator
Jan 3, 2005, 5:35 AM
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John Sherman knows what he is doing. If the AF and FOQC take a no-compromise stance on what appears to be inevitable, they are sure shooting themselves in the foot on future access issues. Seems like AF is good at that already.
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curt
Jan 3, 2005, 5:47 AM
Post #105 of 156
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In reply to: John Sherman knows what he is doing. If the AF and FOQC take a no-compromise stance on what appears to be inevitable, they are sure shooting themselves in the foot on future access issues. Seems like AF is good at that already.
You haven't bothered to read any of this thread, have you? Please say that you haven't, because if you did, you didn't understand any of it.
Curt
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dominator
Jan 3, 2005, 5:55 AM
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I must admit...I read the first couple of posts and the last couple. Was what I said addressed?
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curt
Jan 3, 2005, 6:01 AM
Post #107 of 156
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In reply to: I must admit...I read the first couple of posts and the last couple. Was what I said addressed?
Yes. The AF and FoQC are not anti-mining groups in any way. Both of us are access advocates and are perfectly willing to see a new copper mine come to be in Arizona, as long as some access to Oak Flat can be preserved. We are all about compromise.
Curt
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pheenixx
Jan 4, 2005, 8:28 AM
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curt ~ must commend you again for your answer so patient and diplomatically polite, amazing. Happy I got many other things done and didn't need to start this forum, I knew it was inevetable... :lol:
chippy ~ thanks for starting this and maintaining the spirit here
bvb ~ i luv you....Hahahaha... 8^) (no really -- sucha sexy 'ol climber)
climbsomething ~ Can you believe such a moronic statement, and comin' from someone who doesn't even live or climb here..? Isn't the internet an amazing array of ? (are you comin to Ouray next week..? -pm if yes)
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I read this entire forum and I understand it. I find it amazing the number of "noob" to rc.com posting here - some of them NOT even living here OR ever climbed in QC and offering opinions in support of mines or John.
If John truly wanted to 'give back' - let him go forth and find a new place WITHOUT taking $$. A new set of golf clubs = reward he seeks..? Wouldn't a better reward be to know that his fellow climbing communtiy is enjoying climbing in a place that he is responsible for finding..? (just my opinion)
Queen Creek is a most fabu-unique and wonderfull local climbing & hiking area for Phoenicians to cherish. Every possible means should be explored for miners, climbers & citizens to preserve it's unique qualities above ground. To destroy this land forever to export money and copper to foreign lands is ludicrous. Find another vein somewhere else. Earth is full of 'em. Quitters and whiners need to move to the back of the bus. When we win and breath a sigh of relief, remember your contribution was nill and YOU were a quitter. As the fellow from Patagonia pointed out - gone = forever.
Referred by Royal Robbins..?? hmm... Let us ask Royal.
Carry on everybody, your doing a great job.
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rockfax
Jan 4, 2005, 2:04 PM
Post #109 of 156
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Oooooo Look It.
Climbers at each others throats over the destruction of a climbing area.
Some saying, destroy it.
Others saying, save it.
How did that happen I wonder?
Mick
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frankpoole
Jan 4, 2005, 2:27 PM
Post #110 of 156
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I float with no air
Dave becomes a Star Baby
Life is so unfair.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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rockfax
Jan 4, 2005, 2:32 PM
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Sherman sponsored by a global mining company to go "developing" new climbing areas. That's hilarious (but really just an extension of his day job as a geologist).
They aren't French owned by any chance are they? More likely British or Australian.
I don't know Sherman, but I do know humans and we will do anything to justify our actions especially where money is concerned.
Looking at Rio Tinto and Resolutions websites on the surface (ho-ho-ho) they seem like a very caring company, lots of enviro stuff, kids corners, pay the locals a fair and equitable rate yadidiyadira. But there again Starbucks are just providing a warm loving enviromenent for the new dressed-in-black bohemians to hang, share ideas and write poetry.
I hope one of the mags and one of their investigative journalists get hold of this to cut through the hyperbole I've read on this thread.
By the way, where is Sherman's statement of his intentions? If he is representing the climbing community he'd better come clean publically either in the mags or on here.....preferably both. (Or is he just representing himself?)
Post up John.
best regards, your fiend,
Mick
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akornylak
Jun 5, 2005, 5:08 AM
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"The unfortunate reality is that mining companies have done more good for the 294 million residents of this country than have climbers."
"Current civilization can easily exist without climbing. I do not think it could be maintained without mining."
Hilarious.
How sweet. I am warmed in my cockles that climbers are so concerned about the well-being of all Americans and Western Civilization in General.
Here I thought it would be cooler to see whether Our Hero can find a new area to "put up" so we can all send and possibly even establish a new grading system and name rocks in honor of all of ourselves.
If we want to be smart and make some dough, we could find another mineral-laden area of little apparent worth to anyone but us... and the miners.
The greater good: Rio Tinto gets our land AND our money, and leaves a wasteland, we get a few bucks and a climbing park - nothing that wasnt already there. Think about it guys, if you think the climbing world is pathetic now, just wait till the hordes go to the newly established climbing park that we all sold out for because we were afraid to lose.
Climbers. Somehow when its time to sack up and actually fight for your own interests, y'all start getting misty-eyed thinking about how your kids won't have copper like you had. Yeah Sherman sold out, went to the other side, he might lose too - find nothing out there in the desert. But at least he had the nuts to do it. Big Copper doesn't give a damn about Western Civilization, either. They know what they want - more of our money. If you want to keep enjoying life you better stop whining about maximizing the greater good and NUT UP.
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steezy
Jun 25, 2005, 7:31 AM
Post #113 of 156
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Save Queen Creek.
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cintune
Jul 20, 2005, 11:40 AM
Post #114 of 156
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The debate hits the mainstream. Shannon vs. Sherman in this month's (Sept. 05) issue of Climbing.
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bvb
Jul 31, 2005, 8:27 AM
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In reply to: I have known John for over 20 years.
bfd. i met sherman, or should i say sherman met ME, when i down-soloed the damper into his camp, wearing chuck taylors, at josh, baked on mda and wearing the "love glasses". proceeded to chain-smoke fugs i was bumming off his homo colorado climbing partners. they we're all wearing german short-shorts. it was pathetic.
spring, 1981 beeeeotch.
aren't we special?
woodson of AZ, babe. last weekend in sept. let's go.
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drnick
Aug 10, 2005, 2:23 PM
Post #116 of 156
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Sir, thank you for the piece in the latest issue of Climbing magazine.
It is about time someone with some prominence brings to light the horrible job the Access Fund has been doing and the scam they have foisted upon climbers.
The AF has long been about misinformation and getting people to walk "lockstep" with their myopic agenda, but it is rare indeed that someone of prominence has the sac to speak openly and honestly about them..
I encourage all people to read your article in the September Climbing issue, and to pay particular attention to the paragraphs on page 52 and 53 wherein the Access Fund reveals their true calling -- that they are not about access at alll, but about furthering themselves and their organization.
The Access Fund has continually misrepresented threats to climbing areas. They continue to beg for money, but then refuse to use it to buy new land to open new climbing areas. Their drop-in-the-bucket donations notwithstanding, they are a fraud.
They are all about the fight, and not the solution itself.
Thank you for bringing their antics into the public eye, although I am sure that their dogmatic indoctrination of most climbers will not be eroded by facts or reason.....
Good Job and Good Luck, Mr Sherman.
Signed,
just another Peabody
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dingus
Aug 10, 2005, 3:12 PM
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Isn't John Sherman the guy who sold out to some giant mining conglomerate over Oak Flat in the Phoenix area?
THAT John Sherman???
DMT
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shano
Aug 10, 2005, 3:19 PM
Post #118 of 156
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In reply to: Good Job and Good Luck, Mr Sherman. Signed, just another Peabody
Is this an elitist troll?
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drnick
Aug 10, 2005, 3:22 PM
Post #119 of 156
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In reply to: Isn't John Sherman the guy who sold out to some giant mining conglomerate over Oak Flat in the Phoenix area? THAT John Sherman??? DMT
That is one way to look at it.
Of course, that seems to be a popular perspective taken by people without the ability to accept much of the rality of the world we live in and instead choose to think that their fantasies are part of the real world. It is a shame that so many people that want something so badly allow their needs and wants to blind their vision from what is really happening.
Sherman was smart enough from the get go to see the larger picture. If that is "selling out" then so be it. But that phrase itself, "selling out" is so cliche and trite, that I am disappointed that an auteur such as yourself would resort to an overused and neutered part of our lexicon. Then again, perhaps your perspective is that simply that silly?
In the end, Sherman is doing more, as an INDIVIDUAL, than any group or organization, to preserve AND CREATE some new climbing opportunities. Criticism of him is motivated by either jealousy, hurt feelings, or a divorce from the reality of the situation.
Kudos to him for embracing progress and the move toward the future, and doing something for the future, instead of just perserving the past.
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dingus
Aug 10, 2005, 3:34 PM
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In reply to: Sherman was smart enough from the get go to see the larger picture
And to cash in on it, yes yes, I understand that.
In reply to: But that phrase itself, "selling out" is so cliche and trite, that I am disappointed that an auteur such as yourself would resort to an overused and neutered part of our lexicon.
I'm just a dumb ass, what do you expect?
In reply to: Then again, perhaps your perspective is that simply that silly?
Could be. See, I tend to believe those who feel that John Serman undermines the effort to save Oak Flat. He in effect 'gave up' the area as a foregone loss. OK, entitled to his opinion. But he took it a step further and received a paycheck for his efforts. Now the mining company can tout that even some well known climbers agree with their actions. If that isn't selling out, I need a new Websters.
In reply to: In the end, Sherman is doing more, as an INDIVIDUAL, than any group or organization, to preserve AND CREATE some new climbing opportunities.
If what you say is true then Bully on John Sherman! But if Sherman shows up in these parts to 'save our bouldering' for us, a good due-diligence first quesation would be... 'who's paying?'
DMT
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dynosore
Aug 10, 2005, 3:35 PM
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Selling out sounds appropriate to me from what has been presented in the Oak Flats thread.. Isn't he doing it for $$$? Where was he proposing new areas before he was on the payroll? The Access Fund has kept many areas open, all he has done is advocate closing a popular area on behalf of a mining interest and replacing it with an existing (albeit remote) area?
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thorne
Deleted
Aug 10, 2005, 3:45 PM
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In reply to: all he has done is advocate closing a popular area on behalf of a mining interest and replacing it with an existing (albeit remote) area?
What's the deal with this (alternate) existing area? Are there currently any access issues - physically and/or legally? Is the mining company planning on doing anything that would improve the situation for climbers at this alternate location?
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heurologer
Aug 10, 2005, 4:14 PM
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Hey DMT...no wonder you never get paid for your writing...that would be selling out, eh?
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caughtinside
Aug 10, 2005, 4:19 PM
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What an amazing coincidence!
Sherman thinks oak flat is a chosspile.
A copper company that wants to stop climbing there is paying him $60k to say it's a chosspile.
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jv
Aug 10, 2005, 4:47 PM
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Why don't you show some sac and back up your accusations with some facts? Your letter should be titled "An Open Letter to the Access Fund." Sherman's piece is a defense of RCC's policies, not an indictment of the Access Fund. It was well written and he made some good points. But while his bank account was enriched, his credibility suffered an overdraft.
So what are you really trying to say and why? Let's see some facts to back up these accusations:
In reply to: . . . the horrible job the Access Fund has been doing and the scam they have foisted upon climbers. The AF has long been about misinformation and getting people to walk "lockstep" with their myopic agenda . . . the Access Fund . . .are not about access at alll, but about furthering themselves and their organization. The Access Fund has continually misrepresented threats to climbing areas. . . . they are a fraud. They are all about the fight, and not the solution itself.
JV
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