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Trixie
Jan 8, 2010, 11:31 PM
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I'm sorry to hear that you're having a more difficult recovery than expected. I think I've found out that when it comes to healing bone, it's alot slower than we would like it to be and there are some days when it feels like things are getting worse rather than better.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and hope that you start to feel more optimistic soon.
Trixie 
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gblauer
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Jan 12, 2010, 11:09 PM
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1/12/2010
I went to the doctor today and received very discouraging news. He told me that it would be another 4 months before my feet would be pain free.
I went cross country skiing this weekend (5 miles or so) and it really really hurt my feet. The doctor told me that I wasn't damaging anything, but why would I want to do something that hurt? He told me to wait on climbing.
I am back at the personal trainer (I hate it) and I am totally discouraged. I feel like everything that I trained for will be completely gone at the start of my outdoor season. I know I am whining, but, I honestly have NO natural talent and I have worked so hard to improve my climbing. It's all going to be gone by the time I get back into the sport.
Sucks.
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rock_fencer
Jan 12, 2010, 11:13 PM
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I would keep my head up. I injured my wrist a few years ago and took about half a year off. I was leading 7's and 8's when i stopped climbing. When i came back i was much stronger and quickly was climbing in the 10 range for the first time. Sometimes the body needs rest.
cheers
T
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Stormeh
Jan 13, 2010, 12:21 AM
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gblauer wrote: 1/12/2010 I went to the doctor today and received very discouraging news. He told me that it would be another 4 months before my feet would be pain free. I went cross country skiing this weekend (5 miles or so) and it really really hurt my feet. The doctor told me that I wasn't damaging anything, but why would I want to do something that hurt? He told me to wait on climbing. I am back at the personal trainer (I hate it) and I am totally discouraged. I feel like everything that I trained for will be completely gone at the start of my outdoor season. I know I am whining, but, I honestly have NO natural talent and I have worked so hard to improve my climbing. It's all going to be gone by the time I get back into the sport. Sucks.
Well, that is a bummer but try to remain optimistic. Also, you could do some training such as hangboarding that will help your climbing but not hurt your toes. I have been doing regular hangboard workouts since I hurt my toe and I think it has helped my climbing the couple days I have actually made it out.
Also, I'm glad this thread hit page 3 so I don't have to see the pics every time I read and respond. =D
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granite_grrl
Jan 13, 2010, 3:56 PM
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gblauer wrote: 1/12/2010 I went to the doctor today and received very discouraging news. He told me that it would be another 4 months before my feet would be pain free. I went cross country skiing this weekend (5 miles or so) and it really really hurt my feet. The doctor told me that I wasn't damaging anything, but why would I want to do something that hurt? He told me to wait on climbing. I am back at the personal trainer (I hate it) and I am totally discouraged. I feel like everything that I trained for will be completely gone at the start of my outdoor season. I know I am whining, but, I honestly have NO natural talent and I have worked so hard to improve my climbing. It's all going to be gone by the time I get back into the sport. Sucks.
I'll be heading into surgery to get my hardware out on Monday, but my recovery shouldn't be as crazy.
Is it the shoes that bother your feet? Have you considered something like drytooling, where your feet are in a pair of ice boots?
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gblauer
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Jan 13, 2010, 4:46 PM
Post #56 of 128
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Good luck with the hardware removal. I hope it's not painful and that you recovery really quickly. Keep us updated ok?
It's not the shoes. I cannot push off my toes. I cannot weight my big toe on either foot. I feel like if I climb now I will be miserable and I will develop some really bad habits and terrible footwork. As we know, it's all about the footwork.
I am still whiney today.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 13, 2010, 6:15 PM
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Gail,
So sorry to hear of your discouragement. Injuries and surgeries can be very difficult to deal with mentally, especially when they don't go "as planned." (as I'm sure you are well aware) Experiencing all this during the doldrums of Winter surely isn't helping either.
As a small bit of encouragement, keep in mind that climbing is kinda like riding a bike. You have to learn it sure, but it is not something you really forget. When you are recovered enough to get back to climbing, I would bet that you will quickly be pushing yourself to focus on the skills you have most recently learned. I would also bet that most of your abilities will come back to you quite quickly.
From what you have shared with us on-line, it seems you have a strong mental and physical will, determination, and a wonderful group of people to take encouragement from. All will be right with the world in due time.
Happy New Year! Make it better than the last.
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onceahardman
Jan 13, 2010, 9:34 PM
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Gail,
I've really resisted contributing to this thread...
You can't unscramble scrambled eggs.
You cannot make yourself have perfect toes. You can't go back and "not" have the toe surgery. You can only move forward.
Sweating stuff you cannot control will drive you crazy. I am of the opinion it can lead to chronic pain syndromes. STOP IT!
All you can control now is your rehab. Why in the world must you choose something very "toe-intensive" like nordic skiing? Rest, ROM, perhaps very gentle strengthening of toe flexors and extensors with theraband or manual resistance. Do as much as you can WITHOUT increasing the pain you feel at rest. Pain at rest is a fairly reliable indicator of inflammation. You want to keep this down, with MECHANICAL treatment primarily, and only using CHEMICAL treatment (ie NSAIDS) when absolutely necessary.
I'm sorry for scolding you, but your chronicle drives me crazy. Take care of it the best you can. You made the decision. Live with the consequences. You will maximize the outcome by doing as much as you can, without ever making it worse.
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k.l.k
Jan 14, 2010, 12:57 AM
Post #59 of 128
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gblauer wrote: I cannot push off my toes. I cannot weight my big toe on either foot. I feel like if I climb now I will be miserable and I will develop some really bad habits and terrible footwork. As we know, it's all about the footwork. I am still whiney today.
Actually, you don't need to lose that much, at least not with technical rock or ice. I wouldn't do any real climbing now, since even in a rigid boot, on hard moves, you will probably reflexively try to crank yr big toe. But pick out one of yr contact or upper-body weaknesses and work on it.
What were you weakest at before? Slopes? Pinches? Pockets? Set up a few appropriate holds, close to the deck, leave your feet on the ground, and do hangs and twist-locks. Get on yr heels and practice holding and shaking out on underclings. Practice different clips off yr least favorite type of hold-- overhead clips, then cross or to the side-- straight arm, elbow bent. Spend just a few minutes looking at routes and keeping yourself mentally in that part of the game.
It'll be boring, but you don't need that much of it. Keep the sessions short and fairly light and fairly frequent. Easy to throw yrself into it too hard and cultivate some elbow problems to accompany the toes. But a little can go a long way toward making the return easier.
I spent almost an entire year working through a foot stress fracture.
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robdotcalm
Jan 15, 2010, 10:44 PM
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Hello Gail,
Early on in this thread, I gave the advice “make haste slowly.” As I’ve followed the thread, it struck me that most of what you’re doing and thinking is going to make your recovery slower and, perhaps, even prevent full recovery. I have to agree with hardman about this. I’ve been through numerous injuries and illnesses and have been able to return to climbing, but never did I put returning to climbing as the most important thing. Recovery to a normal life was far more important. Concentrating on returning to climbing will impede recovery, and, hence, returning to climbing. And you’ve been violating one of the most basic rules in recovery: do what doesn’t hurt; don’t do what does hurt.
Even if your brain wants to climb, your actions must be directed to recovery. Things like going to the climbing gym and cross country skiing are setting you up for not getting better. I also take a dim view of physically exhausting workouts with a trainer. The energy in recovering from such sessions takes away from the ability of your feet to recover. Moderate workouts until you feel better are what’s beneficial.
I’m not just talking the talk, I’m also not walking the walk. Here’s a picture of me taken yesterday after surgery to remove a screw from my tibia. I’ve got to take it easy the next couple of weeks as I slowly get better. There’ll be plenty of time for climbing after that. This procedure is minor league compared to what you’ve gone through, but the same principles apply.
Gail, I know I’m being negative here, but it’s really bothered me to see you not doing what you need to do to heal up. That’s the important thing, and I wish you the best. You may not climb this season, but it’s more important to have many good season after this year than mess up because of being hasty.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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reno
Jan 16, 2010, 1:45 AM
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robdotcalm wrote: You may not climb this season, but it’s more important to have many good season after this year than mess up because of being hasty.
This is very, very wise advice, Gail.
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gblauer
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Jan 18, 2010, 12:13 AM
Post #62 of 128
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Thanks for your notes.
I am very much trying to heed your advice. Since reading hardman's admonishment (and the subsequent responses) I have really tried to completely shift my mindset.
You are right, I cannot unscramble what's been scrambled. I can only make the best out of what will be a much longer recovery than I expected.
I have made the mental shift and now I am trying to make the physical shift. I am still going to the trainer, but, I have asked for kinder/gentler sessions. I am walking at an easy pace, not skiing. I am stretching my toes whenever I get the chance and I am hyper aware of my nutrition.
So, I am a "learning being" and I can adjust to this reality. I have cancelled my trip to potrero and will go in November instead. In the mean time I am heading to India for couple of weeks, then off to Colorado for another week. So, the month of February will slip by without me even having a chance to really think about climbing.
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losbill
Jan 18, 2010, 12:59 PM
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Hey Gail --- I was wondering how the surgery went. Somehow missed this thread until now. Sounds like a pretty miserable experience thus far. Hoping the the ultimate result will be truly outstanding and well worth the physical and mental discomfit!!! All the best Bill
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gblauer
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Jan 23, 2010, 3:40 AM
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losbill wrote: Hey Gail --- I was wondering how the surgery went. Somehow missed this thread until now. Sounds like a pretty miserable experience thus far. Hoping the the ultimate result will be truly outstanding and well worth the physical and mental discomfit!!! All the best Bill
Hi Bill,
I am very very slowly recovering. It will be another month before I can climb. I am headed to India and Colorado for much of February, so that will keep me distracted.
I hope to see you at the gunks this spring!
Gail
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gblauer
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Jan 30, 2010, 10:56 PM
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January 30th
I am up at the gunks, it's 15 degrees and it's cold. I just got in from a hike to split rock, thank goodness for the micro spikes!
My feet are ok, not great. I have not returned to my level of pre-op discomfort. In other words, my feet still feel a whole lot worse than before I went in for the surgery. (And I thought they were pretty bad before the surgery).
Walking is ok, not great. I still have pain in my great toe joint in both feet everytime I take a step.
I am hoping that by the time I get back from India, Georgia (the country) and Colorado, I will be able to make my first tentative steps on the climbing wall.
In the mean time, I am still going to the personal trainer. I had a breakthrough during our last workout (my first) and I was finally able to keep up and feel pretty good during our session.
More to come...
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gblauer
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Feb 14, 2010, 7:12 PM
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Greetings from Hyderabad India.
Just a quick update on my toes. They suck.
I swear they are not getting any better. I can only wear my merrill clogs (for work and for play) and it hurts everytime I take a step.
I am still going to the personal trainer, I actually hit the gym 3x this week in India.
I don't think I will ever be able to climb again.
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granite_grrl
Feb 14, 2010, 11:31 PM
Post #67 of 128
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gblauer wrote: Greetings from Hyderabad India. Just a quick update on my toes. They suck. I swear they are not getting any better. I can only wear my merrill clogs (for work and for play) and it hurts everytime I take a step. I am still going to the personal trainer, I actually hit the gym 3x this week in India. I don't think I will ever be able to climb again.
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curt
Feb 15, 2010, 10:25 PM
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gblauer wrote: Greetings from Hyderabad India. Just a quick update on my toes. They suck. I swear they are not getting any better. I can only wear my merrill clogs (for work and for play) and it hurts everytime I take a step. I am still going to the personal trainer, I actually hit the gym 3x this week in India. I don't think I will ever be able to climb again.
Gail, you appear to be ignoring the excellent advice that you have received from several people here: don't push it. Your surgery could take up to a full year to recover from and yet you insist on trying to climb after only a couple of months. I hate to have to say this, but if you are indeed not able to ever climb again, it could well be due to your own behavior. Be more realistic and give your feet several months of rest and time to properly heal.
Curt
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onceahardman
Feb 16, 2010, 12:01 AM
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curt wrote: gblauer wrote: Greetings from Hyderabad India. Just a quick update on my toes. They suck. I swear they are not getting any better. I can only wear my merrill clogs (for work and for play) and it hurts everytime I take a step. I am still going to the personal trainer, I actually hit the gym 3x this week in India. I don't think I will ever be able to climb again. Gail, you appear to be ignoring the excellent advice that you have received from several people here: don't push it. Your surgery could take up to a full year to recover from and yet you insist on trying to climb after only a couple of months. I hate to have to say this, but if you are indeed not able to ever climb again, it could well be due to your own behavior. Be more realistic and give your feet several months of rest and time to properly heal. Curt
Well said. plus one.
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gblauer
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Feb 16, 2010, 12:21 AM
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You guys, just feel free to dump on me.
You seem to be under the impression that I am actually trying to climb. Frankly, I am just trying to walk.
I haven't climbed since my honeymoon in October.
I am frustrated because of the expectations set by the 5 different surgeons that I interviewed prior to consenting to the surgery.
Every last one of them felt that I would be feeling pretty darn good within 12 weeks. Well, 12 weeks have come and gone and I can't take a step without pain in both feet.
I did not enter this choice lightly or in an uneducated way. I did my research, I sought multiple opinions, and yes I made my choices. I made my choices based on input from professionals who assured me that I would be in shoes by 12 weeks, that I would be back climbing (if lightly) in 12 weeks.
So FORGIVE my frustration when I can't even wear a pair of dress shoes. When I can't navigate airports without being in pain EVERY SINGLE STEP.
Hindsight being 20/20, I would have waited several more years to do this surgery. I am old, I have worked extra hard for anything I have achieved in climbing, and I have precious few years left to climb. This has surely set me back far more than I ever imagined.
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granite_grrl
Feb 16, 2010, 12:33 AM
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Gail, I can't comment on the things that the doctors and surgeons told you, but I do know that every doctor that I've dealt with has been very conservative in their estimations in my recovery.
I'll also say that I remember being discharged from my first physical therapist when I was finally walking proficiently with a cane. Sometimes what they consider recovered isn't what active people like you and me would consider recovered.
I feel terrible that the things your doctors have told you have mislead you, but sometimes recovery can be longer than you think and things are still for the better in the end.
FWIW you're not going to lose all the advancements that you have made in your climbing to this point (and this is coming from someone that also has to work hard to improve). You'll still have your technical abilities and body awareness, and I believe that technique is more important (and harder to gain) than the physical side of things. When you come back to climbing you'll have a different view on things and perhaps this will bring out a different side in the climbing experiences that you pursue than you have spent time on before (it did for me).
Stay strong Gail. When this is all over it won't seem as impossibly long as it does when you're looking ahead now.
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gblauer
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Feb 16, 2010, 12:39 AM
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granite_grrl wrote: FWIW you're not going to lose all the advancements that you have made in your climbing to this point (and this is coming from someone that also has to work hard to improve). You'll still have your technical abilities and body awareness, and I believe that technique is more important (and harder to gain) than the physical side of things. When you come back to climbing you'll have a different view on things and perhaps this will bring out a different side in the climbing experiences that you pursue than you have spent time on before (it did for me). .
Rebecca, I am sooo hoping that you are right. I would love to come back with an entirely different perspective on climbing and the reasons that I climb. Thanks for your kindness.
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curt
Feb 16, 2010, 1:15 AM
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gblauer wrote: You guys, just feel free to dump on me. You seem to be under the impression that I am actually trying to climb. Frankly, I am just trying to walk...
Gail,
You posted this on December 7th...
gblauer wrote: ...I went to the rock gym on Saturday to kick off my womens climb training sessions. It was wonderful to be there, but I was so jealous of the climbing. Yes, I did try and climb and No, it wasn't good. The right foot was in a sneaker, but, I cannot "toe" and the left foot still has a nice row of stitches and is in a boot. So, there I was gimping my way up the wall. By the way, none of my "friends" would belay me. I had to beg a fellow "crazy" to help me...
...and I believe you also mentioned climbing (post surgery) on 11/16. Sorry you feel this is "dumping" on you. I'm actually just trying to help--as are a number of others.
Curt
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gblauer
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Feb 16, 2010, 1:18 AM
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I tried gimping my way up the wall on an uber tight belay a a total of two times, 70 feet in total. I would hardly call that climbing (not compared to what I was used to)
I immediately recognized that I was doing more harm then good and never tried again. the last real climbing that I did was in Arizona in October.
(This post was edited by gblauer on Feb 16, 2010, 1:21 AM)
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onceahardman
Feb 16, 2010, 3:34 AM
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Gail, I'm not trying to dump on you. I feel empathy toward you. Honest.
But you made references to at least two, perhaps three, trips to the climbing gym, as well as a 5 mile XC ski.
My opinion is, any doctor who says, you "aren't doing any harm" by XC skiing 5 miles either does not understand the forces XC skiing puts on your MTP joints, or he's just telling you what you want to hear, (after the fact, since your MD appt was after skiing anyway).
In my clinical experience, it is like you are daring yourself to get better, rather than really focusing on what makes you better or worse. I've seen this before. I have had surgeons warn me to "sit on" their patients on occasion. Usually these patients are active athletes.
If you hit your thumb with a hammer, you wouldn't say, "my thumb isn't tough enough, I need to keep hitting it until it toughens up a bit"...
NO, you let it rest, and heal.
You cannot undo what's been done. Don't keep walking if walking makes it worse. Park close. Get a handicapped sticker for now. Rest. Heal. Move it very gently. Ice it after walking or overdoing it.
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