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Re: [notapplicable] Trad head, warriors way, and bad advice:
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healyje
Feb 15, 2007, 7:29 AM
Views: 2816
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
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notapplicable wrote: cracklover wrote: training yourself to be okay about falling on trad gear as a beginner, whether Arno says it's good or not, is bullshit, and will get you dead. ... The idea that falling on gear and being comfortable with doing so, is a good way to improve anything other than your chances of getting hurt is (in my opinion) wrong. ... A safe lead starts with a clean accent with no falls, once you take a fall every variable in the system is brought into play and we shouldn't think there arent serious risks in allowing that to happen. ... but I dont think that the best way to get over the effects that a fear of falling imposes on a person is to convince ones self that falling is safe, lying to your self doesnt help anything. ... I say learn to use your gear correctly, climb like your soloing above an irreversible move (that doesnt mean "the leader must never fall", it means climbing like falling isnt an option but neither is not sending so once your on climb like you god damn mean it) ... Once you have come to terms with the fact that you will fall and falling is dangerous you will be able to climb with a clear head. ... but sugar coating things just seems like a recipe for disaster.
Hmmm, I don't think you guys are fairly characterizing what Arno(?) are suggesting. I don't believe he or anyone else is suggesting repetitive falling is meant to drone into you that 'falling is safe'. They are attempting, under controlled circumstances, to get folks physically, mentally, and emotionally familiar with the idea and experience of falling.
We don't have uniform responses to the prospect of falling or anything else and that some people might have a stronger visceral reaction to get over is completely understandable and, while I'm not familiar with this WW business, the principle and practice is sound in my experience teaching.
Beyond 'practice falls' and WW, I believe I'm hearing a lot of interesting biases in this conversation. First, I can tell there is a terrible bais that bolts are somehow inherently 'safer' than gear or - god forbid - pitons. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Having checked and replaced tons of anchors and fixed pins I'd go so far as to say I'd rather dive on a fix pin than a bolt any time given the odds are good I can tell the true state of the pin way better than deducing what the condition of the bolt is back in the rock. A far, far greater percentage of the bolts I replaced were bad compared to the pins - and, many of the newer, bright, and shiny bolts from the '90s were in the worst shape of the lot. And there isn't even a choice between gear I place and an anonymous bolt - I'll take my gear every time as well.
To be clear, confidence in trad climbing requires competent skills with gear and the harder or more sketched trad gets the better those skills need to become. If you feel more comfortable falling sport climbing than on what otherwise could be considered good pro trad climbing on a comparable route then either your skills are not up to par or your perceptions are out of whack with reality. But make no mistake, getting competent with pro is mandatory in trad climbing or you'll never 'escape' yourself to move on to just focusing on the climbing.
All that noise said, let me state that falling is not dangerous in and of itself. I'll say it again, nothing about falling, in and of itself is dangerous. WHAT YOU SAY ??? I say only context and circumstances make falling dangerous, period.
Nothing about falling makes it any different than any other aspect of climbing relative to the need to be educated, skilled, practiced, and possess the ability to judge applicability, appropriateness, and risk. Hell, as a leader being belayed can be far more dangerous than falling - pick an incompetent belayer and you could be injured or killed simply being lowered from a climb after a fall they somehow manage to catch. Falling off a steeply overhanging wall or a roof likely carries none of the risks associated with falling on near-near vertical wall composed of blocks, broken terrain, and sharp textures.
Again, context and circumstance are everything. Bad pro - bolt, pin, or gear - probably not a wise move. New, well-installed 1/2"X3.75" SS fatties or a bomb stopper or two on an overhanging wall 80ft up with a good belayer and a decent rope - hey, call me Divin' Dapper Dan.
And learning when falling is acceptable is also no different than learning any other aspect of climbing - as you gain mileage and advance from easier to more difficult terrain you need to start becoming more and more aware of your surrondings (context) so you are better informed to make decisions every step along the way (circumstance). If you seldom or never fall, then you're either progressing at a snail's pace, not climbing near your limit, or never challenging yourself. That's ok as a choice, though it's not one I'd make. But that's not at all to say new trad leaders should be simply hurling themselves off easy ground as Cracklover says - when not explicitly doing carefully orchestrated 'practice falls' - falling should be infrequent in the beginning and only happen as you gain the experience to understand when it becomes an acceptable possibility.
That is the dance - looking ahead both broadly and narrowly, near and far, constantly revising the plan - go or no go? Advance or retreat? High risk or low? Where is the next placement? Where is the next rest? Are they at the same place? Is the overall rope system staying copasetic (slinging)? Is my belayer awake or does she have her hand down my partner's pants? It's a lot to take in, filter, and process - let alone make decisions based on it all and do it all while in between rests on hard ground - but do it you must. If you didn't have to do it all they'd call it sport climbing.
So as far as I'm concerned, falling is absolutely no different than any other aspect of trad climbing - make bad choices around it and you'll end up hurt or dead, but the same goes for choosing partners, venues, gear, and routes (lovers, wives, and husbands) - well, you get the idea - it's not all that different than sizing up the prospects for unsafe sex on a first date - be careful out there...
(This post was edited by healyje on Feb 15, 2007, 4:41 PM)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by healyje
() on Feb 15, 2007, 9:29 AM
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Post edited by healyje
() on Feb 15, 2007, 4:40 PM
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Post edited by healyje
() on Feb 15, 2007, 4:41 PM
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