|
|
Forums:
Climbing Disciplines:
Trad Climbing:
Re: [flamer] Falling on a screamer.:
Edit Log
|
|
healyje
May 31, 2007, 4:13 AM
Views: 2105
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
flamer wrote: Healy, Not only did you not get it. I assumed that you understood the reason I PM'd you was for the info to remain private. I do not appreciate your post,it is out of line and disrespectful.
Josh, if you didn't want to discuss the issue you shouldn't have interjected it into a completely different topic. And, let's be clear, neither you nor anyone else should be slamming a product without citing any of the information whatsoever. No matter how you slice it, that's oblique, unsubstantiated innuendo - and I'm not the only one calling you on it here. And there is no problem discussing such issues openly, just as I have with the Mammut 8mm Slings testing I've had done.
flamer wrote: I'm very glad I did not share all of the info with you and find it funny that you call these test's...oblique and destructive...both in what i interpret as an attempt to write them off. You do not even know what EXACTLY was done in the test's, thus your interpretations are useless.
Again, you shared enough to understand exactly what went on. When you state that a PAS was tested to failure, that is the very definition is 'destructive testing' as opposed to 'non-destructive testing' - it's a technical term for the type of testing done - not my opinion of them. Your claim, and not the testing, is what was 'oblique' (def: Indirect or evasive) and you alone are responsible for that. Again, don't publicly slam a product without backing it up. As for my interpretations, they are spot on - all I needed to know is they tested to failure.
flamer wrote: Yes neither should be shock loaded as I noted, TO YOU, however situations regularly occur,in all types off climbing that could result in a force big enough for the PAS to fail, which is what was discovered in the drop tests. Yes the loops on a daisy can blow out. However there will not be catastrophic failure. Which is possible with the PAS.
No, situations do not regularly occur which could result in a force big enough for the PAS to fail in all types of climbing. Outside of using a daisy or a PAS improperly when aiding, such situations essentially never occur. I also checked with Metolius as well - there has never been a PAS failure of any kind. A 'catastrophic failure' is not possible with the PAS unless misused in the extreme and your body would be a wreck at far lesser forces.
If you or your source, which I did not name or even characterize, have evidence to the contrary then you or they should by all means trot it out - Metolius would love to see it - they are all about facts and have no problem with someone putting their products to the test so long as it is valid, relevant testing.
flamer wrote: The problem with the PAS is it's use of spectre. If they used Nylon it would be a superior device. Although the friction added in nylon to nylon contact would need to be studied. You missed and left out some of the points.
Quite the contrary, it would not be a superior device. To make such a device hold a standard 22kn or more I'm guessing it would be bulky and no one would use it. Again, the PAS already breaks at strengths far greater the human body was ever designed to handle. It is more than fine as an anchoring device.
flamer wrote: If you wanted to discuss this you should have PMed me back directly. I'm sure you took the time to look up the "reputable source", in an effort to discredit what I told you. But they exsist and did the test's I said. So that didn't work.
Josh, I'm a PAS user myself and the reason folks gave you a rasher of shit over this is you slammed a product obliquely with the innuendo of failure without providing substantiation of any kind. Again, I have every faith the folks you said did the testing are entirely legitimate and the test results they reported were accurate. The point of debate isn't how reputable they are, or the accuracy of their testing, it's the applicability and relevance of that testing to climbing and the legitimate use of a PAS that is in dispute. I have no interest in discrediting you, them, or any of those facts. I'm simply telling you either your or their interpretation of what those results mean to a climber using either a daisy or a PAS is a mischaracterization of the facts involved.
I'm sorry, but you've conducted this conversation badly relative to both interjecting it into an unrelated thread when it deserved a thread of its own; by not stating facts clearly; and by not substantiating any of what you did say. My interpretation is correct given the facts you pm'd me. As I said, I would very much encourage you or your friends to both post up the specifics of the testing methodology, the actual results, and their technical interpretation of those results as well as contact Metolius with the same.
What on earth is the point of all the secrecy? No one here needs it, Metolius certainly doesn't require it, and no one will think the less of you or your source. Like I said, I've had similar independent testing done on my own Mammut 8mm slings for the past two years and both published it and shared the results with Mammut. Exactly what is the problem with a clear and open discussion of this issue?
(This post was edited by healyje on May 31, 2007, 7:15 AM)
|
|
|
Edit Log:
|
|
Post edited by healyje
() on May 31, 2007, 4:18 AM
|
|
Post edited by healyje
() on May 31, 2007, 5:06 AM
|
|
Post edited by healyje
() on May 31, 2007, 7:11 AM
|
|
Post edited by healyje
() on May 31, 2007, 7:15 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
