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Re: [ja1484] Quickdraw Concepts/Theory:
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jt512
Jan 24, 2008, 8:35 PM
Views: 1759
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
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ja1484 wrote: jt512 wrote: ja1484 wrote: - There's no problem with ovals on both sides, other than that they're much weaker... "Other than they're much weaker!" That's a hell of a problem. Ovals can have as little as 6 kN open-gate strength, which is clearly too little for any biner that one might take lead fall onto (see the recent thread about the broken biner accident). Good sport climbing biners have at least 9 kN open-gate strength. Some have 10 kN. Jay I agree that stronger is generally preferable, but I think it comes down to personal envelope of risk.
No, it has nothing to do with "personable envelope of risk." There is no rational reason to use 6-kN carabiners in your quickdraws. It is increasing risk with no offsetting benefit.
In reply to: Ovals are highly unlikely to fail, but asymm-Ds are less likely still.
I've said this over and over again: It is a mistake to think of gear failure in probabilistic terms. For all intents and purposes, a piece of gear will break with certainty if its breaking strength is exceeded and will not break (with certainty) if its breaking strength is not exceeded. Biners get loaded with gates open a lot. One would expect that a fall above the first bolt of a sport would generate a force at the bolt exceeding the open-gate breaking strength of a typical oval biner. Therefore, oval biners are not suitable for use in quickdraws. They are not intended for use in quickdraws, and no quickdraw manufacturer that I am aware of sells quickdraws assembled with oval biners.
In reply to: How much is one willing to gamble?
That isn't the question! What the hell is the point of gambling on something like this? Who in his right mind intentionally uses non-standard inferior climbing gear for the sole purpose of adding risk to a climb -- especially a sport climb!
In reply to: I don't lead above ovals -hell, I don't really use them for anything but racking and bailing
Emphasis added for the benefit of the OP.
In reply to: ...but it's his neck and he can make his own decisions...at least now he knows.t benefit.
I don't think that he knows much at this point at all, and worse yet, he now thinks he does. I doubt that he's searched for the thread about the biner failure that was posted a few days ago. I doubt that he understands that the most important criterion in a carabiner is its open gate strength. The disadvantages of using wiregates on the bolt end of the draw have either not been emphasized or not mentioned. And so on.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 24, 2008, 8:36 PM)
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Post edited by jt512
() on Jan 24, 2008, 8:36 PM
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