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Re: [jt512] My leader keeps taking tons of slack!:
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sticky_fingers
Jun 3, 2011, 10:44 PM
Views: 3129
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 420
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jt512 wrote: sticky_fingers wrote: cracklover wrote: shockabuku wrote: redlude97 wrote: j_ung wrote: redlude97 wrote: Why does clipping high vs. clipping low make a difference? Clip from the best stance possible. Hasn't this already been hashed out that the difference is minimal in either case in terms of fall distance? I don't that this particular issue has been hashed out at all. If it has, it sounds like people came to the wrong conclusion—it can make all the difference between hitting something and not hitting something. I agree with your other point wholeheartedly, though. The safest clipping stance is the one from which you're least likely to fall. Sorry you are right I should have clarified my point. If you aren't going to deck or hit a ledge, the fall distance is the same when clipping high or at the waist. You do end up lower when clipping high though, but the force is actually lower. You're not talking about falling during the clip, correct? If you attempt to clip from a lower stance (provided you're still below the bolt) you will fall farther if you blow the clip. No you won't. You'll fall lower, but not further. GO Crack and Red are right. Took me a minute to figure out the difference between lower and farther. Assumptions: two bolts, 6ft vertical separation, 0ft horizontal separation Case 1, Clipping from low stance: Climber’s waist 3ft below upper bolt, 0ft horizontally displaced Climber grabs ~6ft of rope to make the clip, however before making the clip there is now 9ft of rope out (3ft (bottom bolt to waist) + ~6ft rope for clipping). Climber falls ~9ft + rope stretch below last clipped bolt, but since they started 3ft above the bolt, total fall distance is ~12ft, not ~18ft. Case 2, Clipping from next to bolt: Other situation, climber climbs up to second bolt so his/her waist is <1ft horizontally from the bolt. Climber grabs ~1ft of rope to make the clip. Before making the clip there is 7ft of rope out (6ft (bottom bolt to waist) + ~1ft rope for clipping). Climber falls ~7ft + rope stretch below last clipped bolt, but since they started 6ft above a bolt, total fall distance is ~14ft. Summary Clipping from low stance = shorter total fall distance, yet ending up farther below last clipped bolt Clipping next to bolt = longer total fall distance, yet ending up not as far below last clipped bolt. Just as I thought I was out, they pull me back in. I didn't check your math, but you're making the calculation unnecessarily complicated by including the 1 foot of horizontal separation (which you're handling incorrectly in the calculation anyway—do the trig if you must). For all intents and purposes, the fall length will be the same whether you clip the bolt overhead, at your waist, or anywhere in between. If you actually clip the bolt below your waist, the fall will be longer. Jay
damn you jay, i think you're right....
(Edited)
I take it back. In the second scenario, the climber has to pull 1.0827ft of rope in order to make the clip. I stand by my ~1ft and I stand by my fall distances.
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Ok, I'll admit that the 1ft horizontal example (Case 2) is not good. Replace that with an example of your waist being directly in front of a bolt. Fall from this position and you're looking at a ~12ft fall, ending up ~6ft + rope stretch below last bolt.
Case 1 has you falling the same ~12ft distance, but from a position closer to the lower bolt, so you're going to end up lower.
Disagree?
(This post was edited by sticky_fingers on Jun 4, 2011, 3:16 AM)
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