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hillbillywannabe
Nov 4, 2005, 5:41 PM
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i am not sure how smart my friend and i are, but we have been rigging a series or slings up a tree to create rope drage and enable us to have more rope out, and then making a 2 point equalized anchor on some pretty thick branches about 25 feet up, then we climb up and jump just above the anchors. my question: if we are not jerking to a stop and the belayer is letting out rope to ease the faller to a stop on roughly 40 feet of rope, (2 25's tied togather with double fishermans, dynamic rope). is this safe?
we have been doing it for a while, and it just occured to me to ask....
it is fun.... at what point is the elasticity going to become sketchy?
we are giving the rope "breaks" along the way.
just wondering maybe i can post some pictures sometime, would that help the evaluation?
Bill
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kman
Nov 4, 2005, 5:49 PM
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So your taking falls onto 2 lines tied to together to make one lead line? And the falls are onto branches?
What do you mean you are giving the rope breaks????
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jakedatc
Nov 4, 2005, 5:50 PM
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why the hell would anyone have 2 25foot ropes?
:troll: and a weak one at that
go back to yer ceeement pond
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chanceboarder
Nov 4, 2005, 5:53 PM
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:shock: this will be on the evening news tonight under the headline "man dies in crazy tree jumping stunt"
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ilikerock13
Nov 4, 2005, 5:56 PM
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My first suggestion is that you never allow the belayer to let out rope to "ease the faller!!!" If you want a dinamic belay have your belayer jump when you fall this will decrease the fall factor, "ease the faller," and you don't have to worry about your hand burning from slipping rope and dropping your climber. There are other things you could do to make this safer, but is your system rope on rope or rope on webbing or are you using carabiners. i wouldn't worry about the rope if but it will burn through your anchors unless there are carabiners on them.
Pictures would be good
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veganboyjosh
Nov 4, 2005, 5:58 PM
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In reply to: i am not sure how smart my friend and i are, but...
i have a pretty good idea...
In reply to: just wondering maybe i can post some pictures sometime, would that help the evaluation?
i don't think it would help the evaluation much, but you should still post some pictures.
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petsfed
Nov 4, 2005, 5:59 PM
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I would suggest first getting one continuous rope (free of knots) to go the distance. After that, I'd suggest making sure your will is in order. Carry on.
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charlie_benton
Nov 4, 2005, 6:12 PM
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If you want to practice falling, go to a gym or climb some hard, well bolted sport routes. As a rule of thumb, never drop yourslef on a system that makes you nervous. Your setup sounds like it has the potential to be bomber, but it also has the potential to fail. Im guessing that these 25ft ropes are old (or else they would be much longer) and joining them with a double fisherman makes them even weaker, reducing their strengh by around 30%. So take a lesson from the pros (osman + reeve) and remember that you can still break you neck at 25ft.
ps. dont trust your life with anything you read on this site.. haha... im serious
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reg
Nov 4, 2005, 6:17 PM
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your probably ok. have your belayer wear a glove (tight fitting close fit leather) and hold his ground (or jump) but don't feed rope on a leader fall. once that rope starts movin through your hand it can be V. difficult to stop! never pull your rope through slings ( as stated before) use biners.
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hillbillywannabe
Nov 4, 2005, 6:29 PM
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i have never had so much activity in a thread before!
i am using biners, forgot to mention that detail.
the reason i have to ropes, is because (you will probly call me stupid)
my friends mom used to work at PMI (they make climbing/caving rope, this is climbing rope) and chopped off the "defective" parts, in 25 foot lengths. i have inspected the rope, and it seems to be ok, it has held. i have a piece of "defective" static rope, from the same source that i use to tighten my slackline with, it has held fine as well.
i'' post some pictures in a little while (maybe this afternoon or tomorrow)
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keinangst
Nov 4, 2005, 6:32 PM
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In reply to: chopped off the "defective" parts, in 25 foot lengths. i have inspected the rope, and it seems to be ok, it has held.
OK, if you are trying to defend troll accusations, you just failed :D
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charlie_benton
Nov 4, 2005, 7:11 PM
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This has got to be a joke, I dont think anyone is dumb enough to use and purposely fall on rope that PMI has deemed defective
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kman
Nov 5, 2005, 11:27 PM
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Preserved!!
:lol: You might want to take the "wannabe" out of you user name :roll:
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kman
Nov 5, 2005, 11:29 PM
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For all you fools out there that call troll for every stupid post...you guys have way too much faith in the human race. There really are people out there that are this stupid...and this thread is proof of that.
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coreyr
Nov 6, 2005, 12:59 AM
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Make sure you guys have the video camera rolling for this event. It does have the possibility at some point for making a stupidest home video tv show.
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jakedatc
Nov 6, 2005, 1:29 AM
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ha.. keep jumping and Majid will up his post count
:roll:
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sandstone
Nov 6, 2005, 2:11 AM
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Kudos if this is a troll, it's a pretty good one (with the photos).
Rigging practice falls is nothing new. Is it Climbing in North America that shows some old black and white photos of guys in the CA Sierra Club learning how to catch falls with a hip belay? Practicing falling and belaying is not a bad thing either, done properly.
Some of the branches in your photos are not very big, and you have no way of knowing if they have internal damage from wind loading, insects, or disease. Put a backup sling around the main trunk of the tree.
Get a proper rope. The "defective" ropes you have may be OK, but maybe not -- it depends on the defect. I got two free "defective" ropes from BlueWater where the defect was they were cut a few feet too short. Other defects are not so benign.
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joshy8200
Nov 6, 2005, 2:57 AM
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In reply to: For all you fools out there that call troll for every stupid post...you guys have way too much faith in the human race. There really are people out there that are this stupid...and this thread is proof of that.
EXACTLY....I saw the way some folks had rigged a rapl rope that made me realize that all the crazy 'anchor' (if you can call them that) pictures posted on this site might just be for real.
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hillbillywannabe
Nov 6, 2005, 3:39 AM
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c'mon. wont atleast one person give me a trophy?
and to go along with the hillbilly comment, i just got home from square dancing.... :lol:
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hillbillywannabe
Nov 6, 2005, 3:44 AM
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sandstone, i thankyou for the advice, it will be used.
i am thinking in investing (hardly) in a short rope.
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grovehunter
Nov 6, 2005, 3:46 AM
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Are you out of your minds? I mean this is classic, but just plain nuts! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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jimdavis
Nov 6, 2005, 3:47 AM
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In reply to: ha.. keep jumping and Majid will up his post count :roll:
HAH!
How true.
This is BY FAR the single dumbist idea I've seen on this site! And the second dumbist thing I've heard of in real life, second only to pissing on an electric fence.
Don't you have parents that smack you when you try stupid shit like that?!
I'll keep a look out for a new Majid post..
Jim
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bigevilgrape
Nov 6, 2005, 3:56 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ha.. keep jumping and Majid will up his post count :roll: :lol: HAH! How true. This is BY FAR the single dumbist idea I've seen on this site! And the second dumbist thing I've heard of in real life, second only to pissing on an electric fence. Don't you have parents that smack you when you try stupid s--- like that?! I'll keep a look out for a new Majid post.. Jim
at least when you piss on anything electric your chances of getting shoked are pretty low, since fulids flow in a series of drops and not a solid stream.
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tradalltheway
Nov 6, 2005, 4:33 AM
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Testing your system isn't the DUMBEST idea ever. When I first got my silent partner I was compelled to test it in a controlled environment. I jumped off a rappel tower for a 25 ft fall on 35 ft of rope. The measurements I used might have been dumb, but not the confidence that it gave me in my equipment. I got video footage but I have no site to upload it to.
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slhappy
Nov 6, 2005, 6:30 AM
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CHARGE!!!!...thisPOosT me gOt On FIRE. JUMP out of the damn tree, if'ur sh'ts hurts...g'd alls welll...
two 25's...who doesnt have two twenty-fives? Back it up if your going to die... if the alpha line fails.
AIR.
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jimdavis
Nov 6, 2005, 8:07 AM
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In reply to: Testing your system isn't the DUMBEST idea ever. When I first got my silent partner I was compelled to test it in a controlled environment. I jumped off a rappel tower for a 25 ft fall on 35 ft of rope. The measurements I used might have been dumb, but not the confidence that it gave me in my equipment. I got video footage but I have no site to upload it to.
Well, I probably wouldn't do the same, but that's not the point.
You tested a proven, certified device on a rappelling tower designed for people jumping off it.
Our brainchild here decided to girth hitch a few branches...quite a ways from the trunk mind you...and started hucking himself off of it...with a knotted f*in defective rope!
So yep, still the dumbist friggin idea I've seen yet. Well, maybe second to this...http://www.big-boys.com/articles/skiroof.html
Jim
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grovehunter
Nov 6, 2005, 12:06 PM
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Just what is a "Majid post" and why should we be on the lookout for it? IS this some kind of Islamic Jihad computer Virus with ties to the Taliban? :roll:
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microbarn
Nov 6, 2005, 2:39 PM
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well, I have no trophy to give. I do suggest you move all of your anchoring slings toward the trunk. This will decrease the forces on the limbs. Though, I don't think one tree is sufficient for redundancy. True, it is three branches, but only one tree.
How far do the branches go down when you are taking these falls?
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daithi
Nov 6, 2005, 3:57 PM
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In the first picture it looks like the carabiner is tri-axially loaded. There are two carabiners so it'll probably been fine - not the safest but then methinks safety is not one of your major concerns! Happy jumping hillbilly!
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sandstone
Nov 6, 2005, 3:58 PM
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Seems to me that some of you folks are taking yourselves so seriously that you've forgotten the simple joy of climbing a tree, or swinging on a rope.
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scrapedape
Nov 6, 2005, 5:28 PM
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That's pretty dumb all right. Probably dumber than our hero with his tree jumping. Funny as hell though.
You do realize that you misspelled "dumbest," don't you? :lol:
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hillbillywannabe
Nov 6, 2005, 6:16 PM
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i think i might look into that tri loading concern, i thing falling about 25 feet on your butt might hurt a bit.
my parents dont ,now we are doing this
the tree limbs hardly bend at all.
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grovehunter
Nov 6, 2005, 6:24 PM
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The tree limbs hardly bend at all...... :roll:
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singin_rocker
Nov 6, 2005, 6:59 PM
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In reply to: i think i might look into that tri loading concern, i thing falling about 25 feet on your butt might hurt a bit. my parents dont ,now we are doing this the tree limbs hardly bend at all.
Tri-loading? Your anchors are just about at right angles to eachother. You're putting way more load on them than a properly situated anchor.
Your parents don't know? Why not? You doubt they would support you in this?
Tree limbs hardly bent eh? I'm not surprised. If my eyes and that slightly fuzzy pic don't deceive me, that's a Hackberry tree. They are notorious for snapping without warning when the weight gets to be too much. They don't tend to splinter and peal like a lot of other trees. The breaks are more like shatters. We used to tie up rope swings every so often out at my grandparent's in southern Texas. Every once in a while we'd pull down a 6 or 8 inch branch. This is back when I weighed about 115 lbs. We were just swinging. You guys are putting much bigger loads on much more questionable branches. Seriously. STOP. Steer clear of pecan trees as well.
Please get some qualified supervision and instruction. I don't want to end up seeing you on CNN.
Waylan
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artsylady567
Nov 6, 2005, 7:04 PM
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:lol: that's freakin' stupid man :lol:
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jimdavis
Nov 6, 2005, 8:54 PM
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In reply to: well, I have no trophy to give. I do suggest you move all of your anchoring slings toward the trunk. This will decrease the forces on the limbs. Though, I don't think one tree is sufficient for redundancy. True, it is three branches, but only one tree.
how many ropes do you usually climb on? how many harnesses do you wear?
Something to think about.
Jim
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tradalltheway
Nov 6, 2005, 8:54 PM
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In reply to: Just what is a "Majid post" and why should we be on the lookout for it? IS this some kind of Islamic Jihad computer Virus with ties to the Taliban? :roll:
Majid is a guy that posts most frequently in the "Injuries & Accidents" forum.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...juries_and_accidents
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jimdavis
Nov 6, 2005, 8:55 PM
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In reply to: That's pretty dumb all right. Probably dumber than our hero with his tree jumping. Funny as hell though. You do realize that you misspelled "dumbest," don't you? :lol:
haha, i leave it there just for laughs then.
cheers,
Jim
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cutty
Nov 6, 2005, 8:56 PM
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In reply to: Seems to me that some of you folks are taking yourselves so seriously that you've forgotten the simple joy of climbing a tree, or swinging on a rope.
I think there's a noteworthy difference between swinging on a rope tied to a tree and arresting falls with a rope tried to a tree.
But that aside, looking at the pictures posted, isn't that anchor/belay setup a whole bunch of american death triangles? An arborial death pyramid, perhaps? With all the compression artifacts it's hard to make out any details in the wide angle shot, but it seems like the rope runs horizontally to another branch before going down to the belay. Looks like a bunch of nasty forces that could be avoided pretty easily.
I wouldn't try it.
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sandstone
Nov 6, 2005, 10:34 PM
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My take on it was they rigged the slings out on the branches to get themselves away from the trunk of the tree, so they wouldn't get grated by the bark on the way down?
Their anchors were rigged poorly for sure, but with the right equipment rigged properly there's nothing inherently wrong with taking practice falls out of a tree.
I can see jabbing him about his crappy anchor sling arrangements, but all this talk about this being a bad idea overall is just rubbish. Taking intentional falls is a standard method for learning how to trust a belay system, and practice falls are the best way to learn what it feels like to catch a fall. Doesn't matter if it's off a tree, a rock, or a warehouse joist -- as long as it's rigged safely.
What's wrong with goofing around in the backyard with your climbing gear? Nothing -- as long as you rig it right (a skill hillbilly has yet to learn).
In reply to: I wouldn't try it.
Nor would hillbilly make a troll. : -)
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hillbillywannabe
Nov 7, 2005, 2:57 AM
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so if you guys were to decide you wanted to practice belay and falling technique and didnt have any sport climbing area around, and no gym with lead climbing. how would you do it?
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rckymntneer
Nov 7, 2005, 4:16 AM
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In reply to: at what point is the elasticity going to become sketchy?
Right before it goes "snap" and you fall on the ground and break your neck... :shock:
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fear
Nov 7, 2005, 4:27 AM
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I've rigged a setup for practice falls from a tree before too and had a blast for awhile until it got pretty boring. Practice falls are excellent practice for the real thing. Most people don't realize how hard it can be to arrest a fall, esp. with skinny ropes, a big climber, and a small belayer.
A few things:
I used a giant red oak with about 6 backup points. I used all steel lockers and 1" tubular webbing. There was no way it could fail. The branches you guys have slung look too small and the rigging needs to be redone. I have no familiarity with that kind of tree but red oaks are very strong and I'd still consider thicker branches than that..... Keep in mind that even with backup anchors a falling 60 pound tree limb will kill you outright.
We always used a f$ckup rope. That it, a secondary dynamic line anchored that had enough slack in it to practice with the primary belayed line but not enough slack to deck if your belayer f$cked up....
Jump away....
-Fear
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jimdavis
Nov 7, 2005, 5:57 AM
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In reply to: so if you guys were to decide you wanted to practice belay and falling technique and didnt have any sport climbing area around, and no gym with lead climbing. how would you do it?
Then you obviouslly dont have anything to be practicing for.
Falling out of a tree is hardly the same as falling on a rock face, don't assume that because you can free-fall from a tree, that it'll prepare you for taking a fall on lead.
As for belaying...use a device intended for the rope your using...and don't let go.
If you insist on doing that, buy the correct rope (cause if you don't have one, what the hell are you practicing for?) rig it off the trunk, and rig a directional that'll bring you out farther from the trunk.
Worst case, you'll cheese grate against the tree...actually do that anyway, then you'll be prepared for falling on slab.
I'm not big on practicing lead falls...I've taken one before, I'd rather not do it again, and I'll take more when they come.
I'd seriously consider what your doing and what it's really doing for you.
Cheers,
Jim
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jakedatc
Nov 7, 2005, 6:19 AM
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In reply to: how would you do it?
I'd call up Nolan14.. get him to bring along his Home Depot rope.. a couple rolls of duct tape.. #.25-1.75 hybrid binder clips.. #2-4.5 spatulas.. and
...
..
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A FUCKING HAM SAMMICH.. dinojeeesh.. you'd think people would learn :roll:
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curt
Nov 7, 2005, 6:26 AM
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Dear hillbillywannabe,
Hopefully you were employing a good sound foot-belay for these practice falls. :D
Curt
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