Police labor union officials asked acting Chief Christopher McGaffin this afternoon to allow a Capitol Police officer to complete his investigation into an early-morning car crash involving Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-R.I.), son of Sen. Ted Kennedy.

ROLL CALL reports: According to a letter sent by Officer Greg Baird, acting chairman of the USCP FOP, the wreck took place at approximately 2:45 a.m. Thursday when Kennedy's car, operating with its running lights turned off, narrowly missed colliding with a Capitol Police cruiser and smashed into a security barricade at First and C streets Southeast.

“The driver exited the vehicle and he was observed to be staggering,” Baird’s letter states. Officers approached the driver, who “declared to them he was a Congressman and was late to a vote. The House had adjourned nearly three hours before this incident. It was Congressman Patrick J. Kennedy from Rhode Island.”

Baird wrote that Capitol Police Patrol Division units, who are trained in driving under the influence cases, were not allowed to perform basic field sobriety tests on the Congressman. Instead, two sergeants, who also responded to the accident, proceeded to confer with the Capitol Police watch commander on duty and then “ordered all of the Patrol Division Units to leave the scene and that they were taking over.”

A source tells the DRUDGE REPORT: "It was apparent that the driver was intoxicated (stumbling) and claimed he was in a hurry to make a vote.

"When it became apparent who it was, instead of processing a normal DWI, the watch commander had the Patrol units clear the scene. The commander allowed other building officials drive Kennedy home."

This morning's incident comes just over two weeks after Kennedy was involved in a car accident in Rhode Island.

"I was involved in a traffic accident last night at First and C Street SE near the U.S. Capitol," Kennedy said in a written statement released by his office. "I consumed no alcohol prior to the incident. I will fully cooperate with the Capitol Police in whatever investigation they choose to undertake."

You'd think after a certain incident involving a certain Ms. Mary Jo Kopechne the Kennedy family would see the advantages of chaffeurs.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy, son of Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Edward Kennedy, on Friday announced he will seek treatment for a substance abuse problem.

"I have been fighting this chronic disease since a young man," Kennedy said, adding that he will return to the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. He said he wanted to continue working for his constituents in Rhode Island.

The announcement came shortly after U.S. Capitol Police reported that the younger Kennedy was charged with "failure to give full time and attention" and "failure to keep in proper lane" after he crashed his car Thursday night into a security barrier near the U.S. Capitol.

The report made no mention of possible alcohol consumption.

Rep. Patrick Kennedy said Friday he is entering a drug rehabilitation program, following a car accident Thursday in which he slammed into a Capitol Hill security barrier. "I simply do not remember getting out of bed or being pulled over by police... That is not how I want to live my life," he said. Kennedy added: "I know that I need help." Capitol Police said Friday an initial probe showed supervisors -- who did not give Kennedy a sobriety test at the crash scene -- didn't handle the accident correctly.

(From the Washington Post)

Princess Diana might see it differently.

Does he have a problem with drugs? If so, should we have sympathy for him, as he's just a victim? Or should we put him in jail?

How is he a victim?? He is an adult!

The guy got away without getting a DUI. It's pretty obvious that he was drunk or was doing drugs.

If you or I did the same thing...what do think would have happened??

You, sir, are uninformed.

The late Princess Diana did not die from having a chauffer. She died as a result of inadequate, regressive, and 1980's mentality-laden prehospital care.

Had she had her wreck in any comparable city in the US, she would most likely have survived. It is only thanks to France's vaunted healthcare system that Princess Diana perished from her relatively minor injuries.

Next time, go do some research and make sure you know what you're talking about before bringing up such a topic.

The late Princess Diana did not die from having a chauffer. She died as a result of inadequate, regressive, and 1980's mentality-laden prehospital care.

Had she had her wreck in any comparable city in the US, she would most likely have survived. It is only thanks to France's vaunted healthcare system that Princess Diana perished from her relatively minor injuries.

Next time, go do some research and make sure you know what you're talking about before bringing up such a topic.

You, sir, are uninformed.

The late Princess Diana did not die from having a chauffeur. She died as a result of inadequate, regressive, and 1980's mentality-laden prehospital care.

Had she had her wreck in any comparable city in the US, she would most likely have survived. It is only thanks to France's vaunted healthcare system that Princess Diana perished from her relatively minor injuries.

Next time, go do some research and make sure you know what you're talking about before bringing up such a topic.

Ken...facts mean little or nothing to Reno. In his mind...he is alway right and knows all.

Hardly uninformed, my pseudo-intellectual friend. It is common knowledge that she was in the ambulance for more than an hour.

Exactly my point, Rufus. That was the failure of the system, and that's why she died.

Tell me, wise one: If having a chauffeur is the cause of death, then why do so many people get driven by chauffeurs every day and they don't die?

Further, if it was the injury she sustained (and you do know what that injury... the specific injury that caused the death... is, don't you?) then why do people suffer the same (or nearly the same) injury frequently here in the US and don't die?

That case was the topic of discussion among many trauma surgeons in various venues for years... still is a topic, actually. TO A MAN, they all agree: The prehospital care was a failure and her death is directly attributed to that care.

But you and Bob keep stroking each other and tell yourselves how right you are if it makes you feel better.

Reno wrote: Tell me, wise one: If having a chauffeur is the cause of death, then why do so many people get driven by chauffeurs every day and they don't die?

...so was Kennedy having an affair with Princess Di?

Reno,

None of those doctors were in the ambulance with her, so their conjecture is simply that. The damage was done in the car - not in the ambulance. She died as a result of the injuries sustained in the accident.

Rufus:

Try to keep up: The injuries sustained were NOT life-threatening, UNLESS she failed to get proper care in a timely fashion. Spending nearly an hour at the scene of the crash is not proper care, nor is it timely.

That's the point you don't seem to be grasping, and I'm not sure why.

Had she gotten the proper care in a timely fashion, it's quite probable, and almost certain, that the outcome would have been different. That she didn't, and that it wasn't, is a direct reflection on the care provided.

Again, people suffer similar injuries frequently here in the US (and Canada, Japan, Germany, Italy, and most everywhere else.) Why aren't they dying in droves?

And, BTW, Paris doesn't utilize "medics" on the ambulance... The ambulance is staffed with a physician and a nurse.

Rufus:

Try to keep up: The injuries sustained were NOT life-threatening, UNLESS she failed to get proper care in a timely fashion. Spending nearly an hour at the scene of the crash is not proper care, nor is it timely.

That's the point you don't seem to be grasping, and I'm not sure why.

Had she gotten the proper care in a timely fashion, it's quite probable, and almost certain, that the outcome would have been different. That she didn't, and that it wasn't, is a direct reflection on the care provided.

Again, people suffer similar injuries frequently here in the US (and Canada, Japan, Germany, Italy, and most everywhere else.) Why aren't they dying in droves?

And, BTW, Paris doesn't utilize "medics" on the ambulance... The ambulance is staffed with a physician and a nurse.

You guys are arguing about something in terms of causality, trying to reduce everything to one efficient "cause."

Next--the injuries. Certainly "caused" by the wreck. That is, if you removed the wreck from the equation, you don't get any injuries. Hence, the wreck is the efficient cause of the injuries.

Immediate treatment might have saved her from dying, but the lack of said treatment did not "kill" her, her injuries killed her.

Exactly my point, Rufus. That was the failure of the system, and that's why she died.

Tell me, wise one: If having a chauffeur is the cause of death, then why do so many people get driven by chauffeurs every day and they don't die?

Further, if it was the injury she sustained (and you do know what that injury... the specific injury that caused the death... is, don't you?) then why do people suffer the same (or nearly the same) injury frequently here in the US and don't die?

That case was the topic of discussion among many trauma surgeons in various venues for years... still is a topic, actually. TO A MAN, they all agree: The prehospital care was a failure and her death is directly attributed to that care.

But you and Bob keep stroking each other and tell yourselves how right you are if it makes you feel better.

Reno, can you honestly state for fact that P Di would have survived her injuries in the US?

Are you fully aware of all of her injuries and complications arising from those injuries and all of the circumstances involved in her rescue?

Can you provide some sort of statistic indicating that people survive car crashes in the US at a greater rate than in France.

You should be well aware of the difficulty in making assessments of a medical teams performance based only on NeWS reports and speculation.

You describe the situation as if P Di had a small cut on her knee and the bumbling inspector Clouseau medics let her bleed out.

Also, since France has MDs in ambulances, was the Princess not being treated by a doctor the whole hour she was in the ambulance? No doubt these services were a far cry from a trauma ward

I do wonder to what extent P Di's death might have been avoided if swift medical services would have been forthcoming. After all, they can almost sew a man's head back on these days...

Didn't see have Cardiac Arrest when being removed from the car?


Was there a doctor on the scene two minutes after the crash?

I would be interested in seeing those comparative survival rate stats. To tell you the truth I am a bit skeptical that such statistics are available, seems there would be far too many variables.

But Rufus won't believe that, cause it would mean that he'd have to admit he was wrong. And that wouldn't be cricket, you know.

I can't fault you for veering my point off course, as I have been the perpetrator of such tactics in nearly every thread I´ve participated in.

So correct me if I´m wrong, but I gather from your bit.... conversation... that:

The car crash is what killed P Diana.

The medics dicking around for an hour instead of getting to an ER is what failed to save her.


Yay or nay?

I don't doubt that the on-board doctor and nurse made errors in their attempt to save her. That, as I said earlier, is the orange. The fact remains, however, that she died as a direct result of injuries sustained in the crash of the automobile, which was being commandeered by the impaired chauffeur. That point - per se - was the impetus for my original comment.

It was a bad analogy. Princess Di was trying to evade a harassing paparazzi. Considering the constant attention she was given, her only reasonable option was to have a driver. Kennedy was just "out for a drive". He wasn't being persued or harassed by anyone.

Using the Princess Di tragedy in an effort dimish Kennedy's situation speaks more about your character than any thing else.

Your world must be a very ugly place to you, Thorne, if you consider everything that you do not understand to be bad.

What don't I understand? That you seem to think your entitled to say offensive things and then act completely surprised when there's a backlash?

I'm quite sure that you're offended by my saying that Di's death was a direct result of the accident.

You should work on your reading comprehension.

And I'll ask again - What is it (specific to my posts in this thread) that I don't understand?

Stop trolling. I know that you're not that clueless.

Ad hominem is easier than admitting you're wrong. :wink:

You would know. :wink:

Oh look. Rufus makes some claims that are complete s---. When called on them, he resorts to his standard "I know you are but what am I".

Must be a day that ends in Y. :roll:

You should work on your reading comprehension.

And I'll ask again - What is it (specific to my posts in this thread) that I don't understand?

Some think a pathological liar is different from a normal liar in that a pathological liar believes the lie he or she is telling to be true

It was a bad analogy. Princess Di was trying to evade a harassing paparazzi. Considering the constant attention she was given, her only reasonable option was to have a driver. Kennedy was just "out for a drive". He wasn't being per sued or harassed by anyone.

Having a driver is OK...having a drunk/impaired/speeding one is not. That is were this (Ken point) goes over your and Reno head.

There is no doubt that things when wrong after the accident...

Wearing a seat belt would have save her life.

Reno wrote: In your view, as you've expressed it here, the only single factor in Diana's death was that she had someone else driving the car. That's the simpleton argument, though easy to make as it effectively excuses one from being forced to examine the issue in depth.

Bob, it didn't go over anyone's head. It's just that that argument is overly simplified, and fails to acknowledge the multiplicity of factors involved in her death.

Reno, P Di died in an auto wreck.
Rufus, Reno is merely trying to make a point about the French ambulance system, his statement was brought up at a strange time in an awkward fashion, that is the problem.
I don't really think Reno believes that the accident was not the cause of P Di's death, he just thinks that more could/should have been done.
For f--- sakes guys.

You wrong Reno. I said that getting in the car with a drunk/impaired/speeding driver was the reason for her INJURIES... THAT IN THE LONG RUN COST HER HER LIFE.

There was a doctor at the scene of the accident about two to three minutes after the crash.

She also had cardiac arrest at the scene of the accident.

I post a fact about the sad state of medical care in this country. The American medical community does a much better job of killing people than the French medical community but you took it upon yourself to hammer the French system...which by all standards take much better care of their citizens than the US.

bill wrote:
You'd think after a certain incident involving a certain Ms. Mary Jo Kopechne the Kennedy family would see the advantages of chaffeurs.


Princess Diana might see it differently.

Ken wrote to Thorne: I'm quite sure that you're offended by my saying that Di's death was a direct result of the accident. Rolling Eyes Do you also cry at chick flicks? And don't flatter yourself. Your insipid trolls can hardly be considered a backlash.

Not at all. Your following statement is the point that Myself and Bob have half-heartedly been trying to make to Reno.



No rocket science here.



Again, pretty straight forward.

Reno...I go as slow as I can.

This was Ken's original statement: Princess Diana might see it differently. This was in response to Bill's post and the advantage of a chauffeur.

Can you understand what Ken was implying? That having a chauffeur did not help her when she got in that accident??

This is really simple s---.

Where in my posts did I ever defend the ambulance or the doctors or said what the cause of death was??

More on health care in the US...from CNN
U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says

I bet he cried when he watched Brokeback Mountain. :lol:

Yes, I understand that. Now, can you understand what I am implying: That the simple act of having a chauffeur is not, in and of itself, the lethal issue you and Rufus seem to think it is?

My issue with the statement is the generality of it:

Every time I start to think that you are brighter than you appear, you say something like this.

The generality of my original statement should have been your immediate clue that it was meant to be taken in a light-hearted way, which is why I subsequently reminded you that your clock is wound a too tightly.

Start losing ground, and out come the personal attacks. Typical, but still disappointing.

On another note - are you actually going to get some climbing in, now that school is out?