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andypro
Jan 22, 2007, 1:43 AM
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I've been pretty much dead set on getting a pair of quarks, but getting a pair of BD Reactors for only $319 is pretty tempting. I'm keen to give leashless a try, but dont want to give up leashes entirely.
I'm still thinkin a pair of quarks, but I cant help but be tempted at the Reactors. They look really comfy to yard on.
--Andy P
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mr8615
Jan 22, 2007, 1:58 AM
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Have you climbed with the reactors? The quarks? The main factor when deciding what ice tools to buy is how they swing in your hands. You should climb with them before ever considering dropping such considerable money. Find an ice fest near you, or some friends who have tools of their own and try these things out before you buy. The reactors aren't designed to have leashes, but if you're worried about dropping them maybe look into those stretchy 'keeper' cords for leashless tools.
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natec
Jan 22, 2007, 2:06 AM
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andypro wrote: I've been pretty much dead set on getting a pair of quarks, but getting a pair of BD Reactors for only $319 is pretty tempting. I'm keen to give leashless a try, but dont want to give up leashes entirely. I'm still thinkin a pair of quarks, but I cant help but be tempted at the Reactors. They look really comfy to yard on. --Andy P
I have climbed with Cobras and Reactors quite a bit this season and the swing on both is very very similar if you ask me.
One thing i have noticed about the Reactor is that the offset handle gives the head a little extra torque on your wrist. Enough so that occasionally swings will glance off if you aren't perfect.
If you are going with a tool and really want leashes I would get quarks personally. They swing great and would be a much cleaner system with the leashes. Without leashes, they are still great.
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andypro
Jan 22, 2007, 2:09 AM
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Quarks yes, Reactors no. I've gone through and used alot of different tools. Havn't used any modern BD tools though (cobra, viper, fusions, reactors). I really like the Quarks shape and angles but was never a big fan of the more extreeme leashless handles.
The reason I'm looking at Reactors is because it's not as steeply angled in the handle as other tools, and it's not as far offset. It appears to be a more "all around" tool than others of it's ilk. The pommel also looks better suited to caning (obviously not plunging!).
I'm not just charging blind into this  I did actually give it some thought. My major point of concern is that I like leashes...Hence my asking.
--Andy P
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anykineclimb
Jan 22, 2007, 3:55 AM
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If you're on the fence with leashes, go with the Quarks. with the pinkie guard on there, it works nicely leashless but you can easily add the charlet leashes.
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mr8615
Jan 22, 2007, 3:57 AM
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The reactors swing like the cobras, and I'm not a fan of the swing on the cobras, on the other hand I love the quarks. The swing is noticably different imho.
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stymingersfink
Jan 22, 2007, 5:19 AM
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with all this talk of cobra's, i wonder what the OP might think of what's commin down the pipeline for the cobra tool...
saw a pair at the ice fest, another pair in Provo Canyon yesterday. All I can say is...
complete versatility, leashless or not... I may have to retract my previous statements about improving on the Vipers!
OTOH, if you're split on leashless, get a pair of Vipers... with the Fang and Strike, they are quite nice to climb leashless with. With the Android Leash you have the option to change your mind mid-climb.
My buddy has a pair of the Reactors and has enjoyed them quite a bit after swinging the vipers for a couple of seasons. I've swung them a time or two, and like the feel of them myself, much more than the Fusions I bought a couple years ago.
The off-set handle does a very good job of protectiing your knuckles, while the lighter micro-hammer is much better than the hammerless Fusion tool for swinging into ice. I'm gonna have to see if I can find a replacement micro-hammer for my vipers.
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dps
Jan 22, 2007, 6:39 AM
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I'm pretty sure there will be new Vipers next year as well, they are moving away from the minor axis orientation.
I agree about the new Cobra's, but I'll reserve judgement until I see how durable the lighter CF frame is.
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akicebum
Jan 22, 2007, 7:22 AM
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Buy quarks, you can get new picks for Quarks and you can't for reactors, BD hasn't had any all winter and every shop I have been in has been bitching about selling out of them. The quark is a great tool.
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natec
Jan 22, 2007, 4:59 PM
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akicebum wrote: Buy quarks, you can get new picks for Quarks and you can't for reactors, BD hasn't had any all winter and every shop I have been in has been bitching about selling out of them. The quark is a great tool.
I've got a set of spare picks for the Reactors. They weren't that hard to come by.
Does anyone have pictures of the "NEW" Cobras from Ouray or elsewhere?
(This post was edited by natec on Jan 22, 2007, 5:21 PM)
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brianinslc
Jan 22, 2007, 7:22 PM
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andypro wrote: I've been pretty much dead set on getting a pair of quarks, but getting a pair of BD Reactors for only $319 is pretty tempting. I'm keen to give leashless a try, but dont want to give up leashes entirely.
I tried a Reactor last season with a leash on it, just for kicks. Kinda liked it, and, seemed to work ok.
-Brian in SLC
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brent_e
Jan 22, 2007, 8:00 PM
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as mr8615 said you should swing them before you buy them. But, on the other hand, I think you can find a sweet spot for a lot of different tools that you swing given a bit of time.
have you tried leashless yet? I haven't strapped my wrist in for 2 years and I don't think I will again!!! I have almost dropped a tool, though.
good luck and check your PM's!! I have a question for you!
Brent
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anykineclimb
Jan 23, 2007, 1:27 AM
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natec wrote: akicebum wrote: Buy quarks, you can get new picks for Quarks and you can't for reactors, BD hasn't had any all winter and every shop I have been in has been bitching about selling out of them. The quark is a great tool. I've got a set of spare picks for the Reactors. They weren't that hard to come by. Does anyone have pictures of the "NEW" Cobras from Ouray or elsewhere?
I meant to get a pic of them (cobras AND vipers) but, um, didn't..
I have to agree with Sty; they're pretty flippin nice
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andypro
Jan 23, 2007, 1:38 AM
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Thank you to everyone for the food-for-thought.
I ended up ordering the Quarks. The seasons gonna be suck-ass-short this year unless it stays frozen into April (highly unlikely) and I've used the quarks before, so I decided to just stick with pseudo familiarity.
Next season may be different! Only time will tell. I'm still a chicken when it comes to leashless I think, but often I'm easily swayed to the better way
--Andy P
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dps
Jan 23, 2007, 5:03 AM
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Enjoy them! I love mine. For tearing up pitches of fresh pure ice, I never climb with anything but my Quarks with leashes. Especially when it's pitch after pitch after pitch...I need to go back to Cody and Canada soon!
I also love my Nomics, but I always come back to my Quarks.
Oh, and whoever asked about getting a micro-hammer for the Viper, the one that BD sells for the Reactor should work fine.
I don't have a picture of the new Cobras, but I will probably pick up a set. Which is saying a lot, because I haven't liked a BD tool in a few years.
(This post was edited by dps on Jan 23, 2007, 5:04 AM)
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stymingersfink
Jan 24, 2007, 12:30 AM
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dps wrote: I'm pretty sure there will be new Vipers next year as well, they are moving away from the minor axis orientation.
Which IHMO, would be a big mistake, but perhaps it will give people more choices for new gear. Of course I've only seen the new model, haven't had an opportunity to swing it into ice yet. Guess I'll have to hold onto my originals.
With their modular heads, any of the heads will fit any of their modern tools... micro and regurlar hammers, adzes, or the fusion's head blank. Pretty F'n cool, if you ask me.
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akicebum
Jan 24, 2007, 12:31 AM
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Whe buy a third set of tools, just buy new pics and climb the hell out of the tools you have. The Nomic is the best park and play tool on the market, and the quark is a pure ice alpine legend.
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kixx
Jan 24, 2007, 6:21 PM
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Tools are getting so much better these days that the only two argumants left for leashed are to keep you from dropping them and increase the length of time to pump out.
To solve the former just put small lanyards on them from 5mm cord.
As for the decrease in stamina from going leashless you can build the muscles and techniques to prevent this and still keep all the benefits of the leashless. Just climb more leashless and you'll see what I mean. Everyone who has done this can back this claim up. Go leashless - even on long alpine and mutipitch.
Also, on the issue of plunging the shaft in softer alpine snow conditions I rarely find a use for this anymore. Use the high grip on a leashless tool and bury the pick and pinkie hook in the neve or whatever. This is much faster and less laborious than plunging.
This is my 2 cents on the subject after taking leashless tools on alpine climbs.
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natec
Jan 24, 2007, 9:51 PM
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kixx wrote: Also, on the issue of plunging the shaft in softer alpine snow conditions I rarely find a use for this anymore. Use the high grip on a leashless tool and bury the pick and pinkie hook in the neve or whatever. This is much faster and less laborious than plunging. This is my 2 cents on the subject after taking leashless tools on alpine climbs.
I agree with your statements about conditioning to go leashless and the benefit but I don't think that using a "high dagger" grip will cut it in a lot of situations. Particularly situations where you would plunge the shaft in order to use it as an anchor on a mixed snow and ice climb.
Some leashless renditions will still allow good plunging, tools like the quark and viper that don't have such radical grips.
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kixx
Jan 24, 2007, 10:04 PM
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No, a pick in neve will not work as an anchor, this is true. but niether do I use a plunged 50cm tool of any kind as an anchor. If I really need to plug something in and there is nothing more solid than snow I'll pull my picket out. (yes I still carry two pickets on snowy routes)
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dps
Jan 25, 2007, 3:48 AM
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My biggest issue using my leashless tools (Nomics) on big alpine climbs is that the geometry sucks for climbing continuous 50-60 degree ice. I'll use my Quarks leashless in that situation, but why not use the leashes if I'm carrying them?
I actually enjoy the way my Quarks swing with the leashes on and frankly it adds a margin of safety when dealing with rock and ice fall to have the leash on your hand.
For harder alpine climbs (eg Smear of Fear on Longs Peak), I'll just take my leashless tools. But I find them fairly useless on long (all day or multiple day) climbs with a lot of 50-60 ice.
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natec
Jan 25, 2007, 4:46 AM
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No problem with pickets. Different strokes for different folks, or situations.
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brent_e
Jan 25, 2007, 5:18 AM
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dps wrote: My biggest issue using my leashless tools (Nomics) on big alpine climbs is that the geometry sucks for climbing continuous 50-60 degree ice. I'll use my Quarks leashless in that situation, but why not use the leashes if I'm carrying them? *snip*
I'm using leashless trango tools and a friend is on fusions. We agreed that the extra clearance made lower angled ice easier on bulges in particular. Never climbed a LOT of 60 degree ice, though.
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dps
Jan 25, 2007, 5:48 AM
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I used my Quarks on the French Direct on Alpamayo and even the pick angle was a bit steep on that, causing me to alter my swing by the end of the day. I was sure happy for them on the crux, which had a small ice overhang on it the year I did it.
Using my leashless tools on that kind of ice would of been hell.
The ice was probably between 40-60 degrees for pitches and pitches, it's hard to say what the angle was.
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andypro
Jan 26, 2007, 6:50 PM
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brent_e wrote: GO LEASHLESS!!!!!! did that do it???? enjoy your quarks!
Ok! I did! Sort of....It was a tree...but still..
So they came yesterday (the Quarks) and I gotta say I'm impressed with the "new" quark. When I last tried them there was no pinky rest and I dont remember what the leash was...freelock maybe? Not the safelock (I have those on my pulsars) but not the clippers either.
Anywhoo...Other than the pinky rest and the clipper leashes, it's pretty much the same as I remember it. However...those two above mentioned "improvements"...holy crap! It's like a different tool!
So to see what was possible I went out and hung form a tree overhead with first the pulsars leashless. That was tough, but not impossible. I surely wouldn't want to do it while actually climbing.
Then I hung from the quarks without the leashes...night and day! I was never really convinced about the merits of going leashless with a straight tool, but it's certainly not as hard as I expected. The only other leashless play I've ever done was on a woody in the middle of summer with quark ergo's and madam hooks. While it's not as easy to hang on as with a truly "leashless" tool, the quark is quite comfy.
Still not gonna give up my leashes though
--Andy P
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akicebum
Feb 7, 2007, 12:35 AM
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Read your own post and you will find the answer for yourself. Here is a valid question when was the last significant water ice route put up? Most of the hardest VI climbs were all climbed with leashes. If you like them use them, don't let someone elses experience replace yours or you'll find your self good and f^cked. If you want to be able to shake out more and have smoother gear placements try out the leashless thing at the crag. But, for godsake, don't go charging out half cocked in the mountains to figure it out. Do what feels right. The majority of the advantages associated with leashless climbing are on steep mixed routes or very "techy" ice lines. Have fun be safe. Get off the internet and get on some ice.
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brent_e
Feb 7, 2007, 10:18 PM
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andypro wrote: brent_e wrote: GO LEASHLESS!!!!!! did that do it???? enjoy your quarks! Ok! I did! Sort of....It was a tree...but still.. So they came yesterday (the Quarks) and I gotta say I'm impressed with the "new" quark. When I last tried them there was no pinky rest and I dont remember what the leash was...freelock maybe? Not the safelock (I have those on my pulsars) but not the clippers either. Anywhoo...Other than the pinky rest and the clipper leashes, it's pretty much the same as I remember it. However...those two above mentioned "improvements"...holy crap! It's like a different tool! So to see what was possible I went out and hung form a tree overhead with first the pulsars leashless. That was tough, but not impossible. I surely wouldn't want to do it while actually climbing. Then I hung from the quarks without the leashes...night and day! I was never really convinced about the merits of going leashless with a straight tool, but it's certainly not as hard as I expected. The only other leashless play I've ever done was on a woody in the middle of summer with quark ergo's and madam hooks. While it's not as easy to hang on as with a truly "leashless" tool, the quark is quite comfy. Still not gonna give up my leashes though --Andy P
sorry I missed this post, Andy!
I'm glad that you are starting to see the merits of leashless and glad that you feel more comfy with the new quarks. I'd say go for it, man. Get some tethers and free yourself...if you know what i mean....!! it's gunna happen one of these days - you may as well start getting the confidence for it now!!!
how's the valley coming along, BTW???
Best regards
Brent
(This post was edited by brent_e on Feb 7, 2007, 10:22 PM)
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andypro
Feb 8, 2007, 5:05 AM
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brent_e wrote: how's the valley coming along, BTW??? Brent
Sad to say, I couldn't tell ya 
Two weeks ago (or so) it was 40 degrees and it was so wet and slippery I didn't even bother to get anywhere near something high. It was all probably falling down anyways. Then for the last two weeks I've been seriously sick (even 3 days in hospital!).
Essentially I think the Quarks comming in jinxed me! However, I can finally get oot and aboot again, mostly. I'm stil pretty weak, but I'm gonna pop a handful of pills and drag someone down there this weekend. I'll be sure to report in full upon my return! It's been so damn cold lately it's gotta be glazed over in a nice thick layer of fun.
--Andy P
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