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coastal_climber
Apr 22, 2007, 6:39 PM
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What is a good crack shoe that jams and edges, if there is such a thing. I am looking for a new shoe for the summer, and if possible would be good at both of those.
>Cam
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petsfed
Apr 22, 2007, 7:17 PM
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Jams in what size crack?
Soft shoes are best for thin cracks, a stiffer shoe that edges better will be better for fists and bigger.
The best all arounder is something like the Muirra or the Anazazi lace-up, sized just large enough that your toes lie flat when the shoe is completely broken in. I'm a big fan of the Katana as well, but its quite wide for what it is.
If you want a really soft, flexible shoe, look at the Mythos or the Moccasym, or shoes of equivalent type.
If you want to climb hard, wide stuff, look at any hightop shoe you can find. The Megas still exist, although they are hard to find. Acopa recently started making a new hightop called the JB.
I'd shy away from "dedicated trad" shoes like the Tradmaster or the Piton. Too much gimmick, and you lose a ton of performance if you're not climbing hand cracks.
There are tons of other options, but a semi-stiff edging shoe, coupled with sizing that allows your toes to lay flat is the perfect trad shoe. Find the one that fits you best.
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climbingaggie03
Apr 22, 2007, 7:29 PM
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I really love my 5.10 Ascents, I'm on my second Re-sole with them and have done serious mileage on them in the valley, red rocks and josh. I had a buddy that loved his 5.10 Pitons, I haven't had a chance to try them yet, but I want to.
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8flood8
Apr 22, 2007, 7:51 PM
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i disagree with pets about the tradmasters.
they are great shoes for slabs or cracks i've put miles in mine
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ja1484
Apr 22, 2007, 8:57 PM
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I have yet to encounter a better "all around" trad shoe than the 5.10 Newton.
Unfortunately, you can only really get em in europe these days, God knows why, and they might've stopped making em all together.
I'm also a fan of the Mythos, though it's not quite as gentle on your feet when jamming.
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coastal_climber
Apr 22, 2007, 8:59 PM
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I will be doing Fist and smaller cracks. I might get the pitons and see how they feel. Do you think the Five Ten Anasazi Verde's would be good for cracks?
>Cam
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dlintz
Apr 22, 2007, 9:19 PM
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ja1484 wrote: I have yet to encounter a better "all around" trad shoe than the 5.10 Newton. Unfortunately, you can only really get em in europe these days, God knows why, and they might've stopped making em all together. I'm also a fan of the Mythos, though it's not quite as gentle on your feet when jamming.
Do you know which European site(s) might still have some Newtons? Five Ten stopped making them years ago and I realized a little too late that the Newtons are the best shoe I've ever owned for slab to gently overhanging. Anyone out there want to sell me a pair (9.5)? Anyone know of a worthy substitute i.e. something with comparable stiffness plus sensitivity?
d.
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cintune
Apr 23, 2007, 12:56 AM
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I love my Kaukulators, but you can only get them on e-bay these days, sometimes. Heard good things about the JB. Or you could get a pair of Chuck Taylors and get them resoled with sticky rubber. I've seriously thought about doing that. I like the high tops.
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jaybro
Apr 23, 2007, 12:56 AM
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Hands down, Mythos, buy 'em tight if edging is important
..
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climbinginchico
Apr 23, 2007, 6:11 AM
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I love my Evolv Bandits. They edge well, smear well, work well in thin cracks, and I'm thinking about getting another pair with a stiffer midsole for wider cracks.
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phang_nga
Apr 23, 2007, 6:29 AM
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jaybro wrote: Hands down, Mythos, buy 'em tight if edging is important ..
Yup, one of the best all-around shoes made... I love e'm, though I'm planning on buying some Evolv Demortos this summer when I go Stateside.
If your shoes hurt like hell
You're not going to climb as well
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azrockclimber
Apr 23, 2007, 10:59 AM
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ja1484 wrote: I have yet to encounter a better "all around" trad shoe than the 5.10 Newton. Unfortunately, you can only really get em in europe these days, God knows why, and they might've stopped making em all together. I'm also a fan of the Mythos, though it's not quite as gentle on your feet when jamming.
The newton is the best that I have ever used by far.
I use it fitted for 5.10 and up, 1/2 size bigger for 5.8-5.9, and for 5.7 and below or really long routes.... I use my old spires, so Comfy... like slippers. 
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ja1484
Apr 23, 2007, 12:58 PM
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phang_nga wrote: If your shoes hurt like hell You're not going to climb as well
100% truth. The first thing I look at in shoes now is comfort. The one aspect of a shoe that really will affect your climbing ability is whether or not you're in agony.
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on_belay_hombre
Apr 23, 2007, 1:25 PM
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I bought a pair of Montrail Splitters for the same stuff you are looking for. Climbed lots of cracks in them and they are the most comfortable shoe I have ever tradded in. I can wear them all day but they're snug enough for edging and provide awesome rubber/coverage and support for cracks. I have since worn through the rand but will be getting them resoled. The lasted 2 1/2 year of climbing indoors/outdoors 2-4 times a week.
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wanderlustmd
Apr 23, 2007, 2:19 PM
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The best pair of shoes I have is the 5.10 Moccasyms. They work well for everything I've come across
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wallmonkey35
Apr 23, 2007, 2:56 PM
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My favorite is the tradmaster.
But for what you are doing it sounds like the 5.10 piton will be perfect. And, it to, is a nice shoe.
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dig_scott
Apr 23, 2007, 3:14 PM
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im sure people are going to say "thats not a trad shoe" but i love them...
la sportiva venom's.
have wore them all day and feet were fine. just KEEP THEM OUT OF THE SUN. your feet will burn off. climbed for a month in yosemite amost every day before the toes busted through. bought a pair of moccasym's and hated them. feet hurt too much.
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coastal_climber
Apr 23, 2007, 3:24 PM
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I've ordered the Piton's, if they don't fit well, I might get the mythos or anazasi lace ups.
>Cam
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caughtinside
Apr 23, 2007, 3:58 PM
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you newton guys are crazy. THose are good for a few things, but they had the most ridiculously big toe profile ever. Forget using them in small cracks.
And they were so stiff you couldn't smear worth a damn.
I wear different shoes for trad depending on the type of climb/length of climb/my mood
I generally use:
katanas (my rad sending shoes)
coyotes
mythos
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elwood54
Apr 23, 2007, 4:43 PM
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Sportiva's Barracudas. Katana last with vibram on top for foot camming.
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coastal_climber
Apr 23, 2007, 5:16 PM
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But I hate the rubber on Sportiva's.
>Cam
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caughtinside
Apr 23, 2007, 5:26 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: But I hate the rubber on Sportiva's. >Cam
I don't! 
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coastal_climber
Apr 23, 2007, 6:23 PM
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caughtinside wrote: coastal_climber wrote: But I hate the rubber on Sportiva's. >Cam I don't!
But I do! 
>Cam
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petsfed
Apr 23, 2007, 6:31 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: But I hate the rubber on Sportiva's. >Cam
I've found that the rubber on Sportiva shoes is pretty similar in overall stickiness to C4. Its just that most Sportiva shoes are stiffer than the average 5.10 shoe. Mind you, I've never worn any of Sportiva's softer shoes (I owned Muirras and Katanas), and I've only owned Moccasyms from 5.10, but even considering the other brands I've owned, the only truly terrible one was Boreal rubber, which was both soft and slick.
The rock condition (lichen, crumbly, smooth, etc) will affect your smearing tons more than your rubber.
(This post was edited by petsfed on Apr 23, 2007, 6:31 PM)
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randomtask
Apr 23, 2007, 7:00 PM
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My muiras work good for fist and above. The new Vibram XS Grip is way better than the old rubber, IMO. However for small cracks I go with the mocassyms, they are great for small cracks. I've never used the pitons, but looks like they might be harder to get into smaller cracks.
-JR
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ryanpfleger
Apr 23, 2007, 7:35 PM
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petsfed wrote: coastal_climber wrote: But I hate the rubber on Sportiva's. >Cam I've found that the rubber on Sportiva shoes is pretty similar in overall stickiness to C4... the only truly terrible one was Boreal rubber, which was both soft and slick.
I like my Cliffs for mellow all day stuff. The comfiest shoes I have worn. If they're sized right the Moccasyms can be pretty good for longer stuff as well. Boreal rubber really does suck. I read a post somewhere recommending that the "fix" for Boreal rubber was to rub Vaseline on them. If rubbing Vaseline on your shoes really does help them stick... that should tell you something about the quality of the rubber right there. That said, I loved the Boreal Zens.
(This post was edited by ryanpfleger on Apr 23, 2007, 10:39 PM)
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coastal_climber
Apr 23, 2007, 10:04 PM
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I climb on Basalt, which is pretty gritty, and noticed that the Sportiva's slipped off easy.
>Cam
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ryanpfleger
Apr 23, 2007, 10:41 PM
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I climb on basalt as well. The rock here is often pretty dusty and nothing sticks super well. I still think 5.10 and Sportiva have the best rubber, but I haven't tried everything so wtf do I know?
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angry
Apr 23, 2007, 10:51 PM
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Quit yer bellyachin' about rubber. My favorite all around shoe is currently a pair of La Sportiva Mariachers. Yep, they're probably 25 years old and have the original rubber. Slick as hell and they don't hold me back.
Sometimes I change into something thinner for profile purposes but that's for the shape. Still the rubber aint what's getting me up the rock.
Sissies!!!
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wanderlustmd
Apr 24, 2007, 2:08 PM
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ryanpfleger wrote: petsfed wrote: coastal_climber wrote: But I hate the rubber on Sportiva's. >Cam I've found that the rubber on Sportiva shoes is pretty similar in overall stickiness to C4... the only truly terrible one was Boreal rubber, which was both soft and slick. I like my Cliffs for mellow all day stuff. The comfiest shoes I have worn. If they're sized right the Moccasyms can be pretty good for longer stuff as well. Boreal rubber really does suck. I read a post somewhere recommending that the "fix" for Boreal rubber was to rub Vaseline on them. If rubbing Vaseline on your shoes really does help them stick... that should tell you something about the quality of the rubber right there. That said, I loved the Boreal Zens.
I have boreal ninjas (Angry, you should look into 'em). They aren't that great, but they are fine while my mocs are getting resoled. The rubber definately isn't as good as 5.10, but these particular shoes aren't too bad...
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jakedatc
Apr 24, 2007, 11:28 PM
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Sportiva Testarossas or 5.10 V10's
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climb_eng
Apr 25, 2007, 1:29 AM
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I've always liked the Sportiva Mythos. They're soft enough to smear well, but protect your foot enough to climb crack. Plus, they're super comfortable.
Don't like the LS rubber? Just wait til it blows and resole with 5.10 rubber... problem solved.
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trebork2
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Apr 25, 2007, 1:48 PM
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I rock the Tradmasters and I love them. Comfortable... you can wear them all day long. Perfect for cracks and slab. I'll even do .11's on sport in them. Damn good shoe for a great price.
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microbarn
Apr 25, 2007, 1:56 PM
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trebork2 wrote: I rock the Tradmasters and I love them. Comfortable... you can wear them all day long. Perfect for cracks and slab. I'll even do .11's on sport in them. Damn good shoe for a great price.
I don't like mine. They make my feet sweat like a mofo, and the rubber is horrible. I also find they are too stiff for anything other then hand to fist sized cracks.
I liked my mythos much better.
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coastal_climber
Apr 25, 2007, 5:35 PM
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Well, my order hasn't gotten here yet (5.10 Pitons) so another day of agony without some new shoes.
>Cam
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nooyoozer
May 1, 2007, 12:43 AM
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Moccs, I have one pair that fit tight for bouldering and thin, edgy stuff, and one pair that fit comfortable for the long cracky days. Properly fit, it doesn't get much better...
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majid_sabet
May 1, 2007, 1:11 AM
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cintune wrote: I love my Kaukulators, but you can only get them on e-bay these days, sometimes. Heard good things about the JB. Or you could get a pair of Chuck Taylors and get them resoled with sticky rubber. I've seriously thought about doing that. I like the high tops.
My First climbing shoes were Kaukulators and I kept it like new, had it resoled with C4 rubber and I love it but only wear it on big walls.
I guess ,they do not make high tops any more.
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musicman1586
May 1, 2007, 4:41 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: cintune wrote: I guess ,they do not make high tops any more.
5.10's high top is actually an alright shoe, the Altias as they are called are pretty much just a high top Hueco/Spire, not huge performance, but I've been able to climb sport .11s in them and their quite sticky, quite good for smearing, kinda at a loss for really precise edging, but if your technique is good they'll suit you fine. My big complaint though is that their slip lasted and fairly sensitive. Most high tops are going to be worn for fist and up and it doesn't make sense (in my opinion again) for them not to be board lasted or atleast have a stiff midsole. Overall though I loved them, I bought them off ebay when my Mythos were getting a resole and my spires finally blew up on me, got them for like 50 bucks and have loved them. I work in a climbing gym and I can wear them all day, when climbig indoors I wear them to work on technique, and on wider cracks outdoors I've (with some minor complaints) loved them because I have such small skinny feet that my Mythos aren't worth a damn on anything "fist" size and up, so that larger toe and what not really helps me out.
Anyways, if I had to choose only one shoe for trad, Mythos all the way, trad, sport, bouldering, they are the ultimate all-arounder.
(This post was edited by musicman1586 on May 1, 2007, 4:42 AM)
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crazyaboutclimbing500
May 2, 2007, 6:30 AM
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has anyone had any experience with the scarpa vision's? I've heard lots of good things about them for a high preformance trad shoe.
____________________________
"Stop complaining and do it!"
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superbum
May 2, 2007, 6:46 AM
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In reply to: "has anyone had any experience with the scarpa vision's? I've heard lots of good things about them for a high preformance trad shoe.
Mee too??? I wanna know more! They look GOOOOD!
My Favs so far have been the Boreal Ninjas resoled w/ Onyx (5.10) rubber...but for the LOOOOONG routes the Acopa Aztecs are the bomb diggity wITH socks on too and shit!!
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getsomeethics
May 3, 2007, 2:34 AM
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I have been using the bufo weapon for the last 5 years. use them for everything except on steep stuff. they are pretty cheap in canada i think. www.rockshoes.com used to sell them.
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getsomeethics
May 3, 2007, 2:38 AM
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5.10 huecos were my shoe of choice before i found the weapon, but i found the lacing right down to the end of the toe was their only flaw. 3 days of crack climbing and the laces were usually worn through on the toe. aside from that though, they were great.
not sure if they still sell them though.
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coastal_climber
May 3, 2007, 3:58 AM
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I got the Pitons, and they suck, way too much toe room. I am ordering the 5.10 dragons, not really a crack shoe, but much more aggressive.
>Cam
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musicman1586
May 3, 2007, 4:18 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: I got the Pitons, and they suck, way too much toe room. I am ordering the 5.10 dragons, not really a crack shoe, but much more aggressive. >Cam
Wow, what a change, trad shoe to a high-level steep sport shoe. Don't think you'll ever use those for crack after the first time you try so, learned that the hard way with my Evolv Agros, I knew they'd hurt but I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about, and yeah, big mistake, big big mistake, glad I was on toprope and could just lower off.
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texplorer
May 4, 2007, 3:03 AM
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Not a beginner shoe, but I love the Mocasyms. The are fairly comfortable, you can slip em off on long routes to let your toes breath, they still edge ok, and they are great for jamming your toes in a crack.
I have never understood why people think a trad shoe has to be board lasted? I had a pair of the old Kaukulators and I almost broke my ankle trying to pull those damn things out once.
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anykineclimb
May 4, 2007, 3:18 AM
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musicman1586 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: cintune wrote: I guess ,they do not make high tops any more. 5.10's high top is actually an alright shoe, the Altias as they are called are pretty much just a high top Hueco/Spire, not huge performance, but I've been able to climb sport .11s in them and their quite sticky, quite good for smearing, kinda at a loss for really precise edging, but if your technique is good they'll suit you fine. My big complaint though is that their slip lasted and fairly sensitive. Most high tops are going to be worn for fist and up and it doesn't make sense (in my opinion again) for them not to be board lasted or atleast have a stiff midsole. Overall though I loved them, I bought them off ebay when my Mythos were getting a resole and my spires finally blew up on me, got them for like 50 bucks and have loved them. I work in a climbing gym and I can wear them all day, when climbig indoors I wear them to work on technique, and on wider cracks outdoors I've (with some minor complaints) loved them because I have such small skinny feet that my Mythos aren't worth a damn on anything "fist" size and up, so that larger toe and what not really helps me out. Anyways, if I had to choose only one shoe for trad, Mythos all the way, trad, sport, bouldering, they are the ultimate all-arounder.
I was really surprised by the Altis being slip lasted also. I like them though and alternater them with purple Huecos (they fit my feet much better that the white ones.)
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madscientist
May 4, 2007, 3:31 AM
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I really like the Anasazi Verde for crack climbing. Note that I am willing to sacrafice some pain while climbing larger cracks for a shoe which can perform well on small edges and can smear well. I think the tradmasters perform well for hand cracks and larger, but I did not like them for all around trad climbing. I also should note that I feel that all the shoes built on the Anasazi last fit my feet well, so I am a little biased to Anasazi's in general. I hope this helps.
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dirtme
May 5, 2007, 4:09 PM
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Not that anyone cares but I like 5.10 Moccasyms. I've tried all sorts of shoes for trad and doing think cracks I like these the most. For wider cracks I just suck it up and deal with a little more pain. For OW type stuff I'll tape my ankles.
The shoes I've used in the past include Mythos, Tradmaster, Megas, and some MadRocks that I don't remember too well. I wear my Moccasyms at my street shoe size. They're comfortable to wear all day long. I can still edge and lead 12 sport in them so they're a good all around shoe for me. If I need it tighter I put on my socks. I like not having to tie my shoe laces too.
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tanner
May 5, 2007, 4:16 PM
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5.10 guide tennies for me.
IF the climbing gets really hard I switch to my mad rock flash slippers.
But as for buying trad shoes......
The la Sportiva mithos are the best trad shoe ever!!!!!
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cchas
May 7, 2007, 6:48 PM
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I'm with those who are into mocasyms (and hint to those at 5.10, don't EVER stop making them). Used them last weekend to lead 5.12 tips only cracks and 5.10 offwidth. I find they do everything well.
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petsfed
May 7, 2007, 6:56 PM
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The moccs are really terrible when you're hanging from a heel-toe jam, or most anytime you need a good edging shoe, but they are definitely my favorite for anything else. Its time to get a new pair (that or the Mad Rock Maniac, which is the same shoe with a superfluos strap attached) since the leather on the top is finally blowing out. I should get some shoe goo and a rand patch and fix it.
Seriously, when I get on Spin to Win (Spinning the Wind? I need a vedauwoo bouldering book) the shoes just pop clean off, and that's a hard offwidth right there.
The moccs are proof that shoes won't make you a better climber.
(This post was edited by petsfed on May 7, 2007, 7:00 PM)
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cchas
May 7, 2007, 8:27 PM
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As with any shoe, its fit, fit and fit. As for me the heal cup on the mocasymms fit really well, which makes heal-toes really positive. As for edging, its about fit. While I won't use them on sports climbs 5.12d or harder, (and I'm lazy so on sports climbs I just use LS Venoms) but on one of the 5.12 cracks I did on Sunday, the foot holds (a tips only crack) were strickly dime edges.
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binrat
May 9, 2007, 1:06 AM
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Been climbing on Mythos for about 2 months, They'r better than Boreal! Myhtos for me in the future.
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lextalion
May 31, 2007, 1:52 AM
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I climb in Katana's, Muiras & Mythos. It all depends on what I'm climbing.
For long routes I love the mythos, and other times I climb in either my katana's or muiras where I want superior edging and capability of standing on a dimes edge. However I've got to take them off at belay stations in order to keep the dogs from screaming.
The 1st time I climbed in katanas I didn't take them off til done with the climb. needless to say I had black toe nails on both feet for about a month after words.
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superbum
May 31, 2007, 3:33 AM
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Just got the Acopa Enzos in the mail today...they feel super comfy around the house and seem to jam (between the fridge and the wall) pretty good...if they crank as good as they feel, I will be stoked!
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justthemaid
May 31, 2007, 5:27 AM
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Acopa JB hightops all the way.
I LOVE em'
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bennydh
May 31, 2007, 6:05 AM
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ja1484 wrote: phang_nga wrote: If your shoes hurt like hell You're not going to climb as well 100% truth. The first thing I look at in shoes now is comfort. The one aspect of a shoe that really will affect your climbing ability is whether or not you're in agony.
My Testarrosas hurt like hell because i sized them super tight, but as soon as you let your balls descend a little and suck it up... they perform so so unbelievably well. With that said...testarrosas aren't for cracks, the muiras may be an alright option to explore though.
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eastvillage
May 31, 2007, 10:31 AM
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azrockclimber wrote: ja1484 wrote: I have yet to encounter a better "all around" trad shoe than the 5.10 Newton. Unfortunately, you can only really get em in europe these days, God knows why, and they might've stopped making em all together. I'm also a fan of the Mythos, though it's not quite as gentle on your feet when jamming. The newton is the best that I have ever used by far. I use it fitted for 5.10 and up, 1/2 size bigger for 5.8-5.9, and for 5.7 and below or really long routes.... I use my old spires, so Comfy... like slippers.
Why they are doing this is beyond me. They don't have a shoe to replace it. Call 5.10 and see what's left.
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azrockclimber
May 31, 2007, 11:24 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: What is a good crack shoe that jams and edges, if there is such a thing. I am looking for a new shoe for the summer, and if possible would be good at both of those. >Cam
I guess I didn't read the question the first time.... Jams thin cracks and edges...good luck man....
edges and friction/slab/larger cracks=newtons....thin cracks/smearing on vertical nothing=mocasyms
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ja1484
May 31, 2007, 12:27 PM
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bennydh wrote: ja1484 wrote: phang_nga wrote: If your shoes hurt like hell You're not going to climb as well 100% truth. The first thing I look at in shoes now is comfort. The one aspect of a shoe that really will affect your climbing ability is whether or not you're in agony. My Testarrosas hurt like hell because i sized them super tight, but as soon as you let your balls descend a little and suck it up... they perform so so unbelievably well. With that said...testarrosas aren't for cracks, the muiras may be an alright option to explore though.
Well, if you actually think you need your shoes painfully tight to climb well...that's what you're gonna have to deal with.
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LostinMaine
May 31, 2007, 2:39 PM
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I just ripped through the rand on my Mythos. They lasted through 2 resoles. They're the most comfy shoe I ever owned and I'm bummed that I have to replace them. Has anyone climbed on both the old style and the new style Mythos? Any thoughts on differences? I hope that not much has changed....
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csproul
May 31, 2007, 3:00 PM
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I just got a new pair of mythos and have climbed on my old ones for a few seasons. I don't have much milage on the new ones, but there were some real differences in the sizing. My new mythos are 2 sizes smaller than my old purple ones. The heel on the new shoes do not fit as well as the old ones. This may be due to the fact that I ended up buying the women's version of the new ones, because I couldn't find the men's small enough.
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dlintz
May 31, 2007, 3:16 PM
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I emailed Five Ten a couple months ago about finding some more Newtons, they said the only pairs left are extremely small sizes. They told me the Galileos are probably the most comparable replacement in their current lineup.
d.
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ja1484
May 31, 2007, 8:57 PM
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The only difference between the new Mythos and old is the sizing and color. The last is the same. The new ones don't disappoint.
Regarding Galileo replacing the Newton: Bull. It's velcro closure. I love VCS shoes for some things, but they just don't stand up to cracks. 5.10's current flagship trad shoe is the Gambit and/or Piton. I have no experience with either. I'd prefer to get my Newtons back but...eh, good luck.
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ja1484
May 31, 2007, 9:46 PM
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dlintz wrote: ja1484 wrote: ...Regarding Galileo replacing the Newton: Bull. It's velcro closure. I love VCS shoes for some things, but they just don't stand up to cracks. 5.10's current flagship trad shoe is the Gambit and/or Piton. I have no experience with either. I'd prefer to get my Newtons back but...eh, good luck. I never said the Galileo was replacing the Newton, neither did the guy from Five Ten. He said the Galileo is closest in terms of stiffness but definitely not the same, both built on the Anasazi last. I've got a pair of Newtons going strong on their second resole and another pair still in the box...I should be covered for the next eight or so years.  d.
It's a business. What FiveTen Man was saying was "Buy the Galileo instead". My point is, trying to associate the Galileo with the Newton at all is just silly. They're completely different shoes.
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