Bugs me some that his tie-in with the rope bypasses the power point and goes directly to one piece of pro (off picture)

What's that hanger-looking thing on the locker at the power point?

Yeah, I would have left more slack to tie into the master point with a clove.


Looks like a hanger used for carrot bolts:

WTF is a carrot bolt?

It's a bolt that sticks out of the rock a little and has no permanent hanger, and is used mostly down-under. Looks like this:



You slide one of the hangers on it then clipping a biner is supposed to hold it in place, but sometimes it doesn't work completely:

That is fucking horrifying.

Heh.

Stay. Away. from moab.

While we are on the subject of interesting anchors... Take a look at this.

What, the rock near Moab doesn't take gear?

I've never been ice climbing before, but I would guess that 5 ice screws plus the two axes probably would hold a little bit.

Thanks for the explanation. That is fucking horrifying.

Fully qualified CF anchor but this is interesting that no one talks about master biner and potential X-load problems.

Fully qualified CF anchor but this is interesting that no one talks about master biner and potential X-load problems.

Looks like a clusterfuck to me. All the pain of rigging an equalette (including tying the stopper knots) with none of the benefits. That doesn't look like it equalizes worth a shit for anything other than the direction of pull it was rigged for (eg straight down).

Seems to me if you're going to toss out equalization you might as well rig a standard-issue cordalette or just girth-hitch the rope to each piece in series. Much faster that way.

Would I bitch about it if someone belayed me up on that? Only if it took as long to rig as it looks like it did.

Hah. Wishfull thinking.
If it needs 5 screws and 2 axxes, and won't take a abakolov then falling iz not an option, but also more likely. Go figure.

Girth hitch the rope in series WTF!? where is the equalisation there?

I'm guessing he meant "clove hitch" not "girth hitch".

Fully qualified CF anchor but this is interesting that no one talks about master biner and potential X-load problems.

Wishful thinking indeed. When my brother cleaned the anchor he was able to yank out two of the screws. A picket would have been much better, but lacking that, five screws and two tools did the job alright.

Did you consider hammering you axe in like a picket?
Now THAT would have been truely awesome!

Far from a CF majid. Just because you don't understand a system doesn't make it wrong.

Rivet:
A short metal stud or machine screw which is tapped into a drilled hole and connected to a short sling or hanger. Rivets are used as protection primarily on aid routes and are intended to hold the body weight of a climber, even in very shallow holes.

Isn't this....just a "rivet"

and this..a "rivet hanger"?

BTW.. is that a an old Clog? SMC, Chounard? hex?

Not quite. This is a rivet:

And this..

It's got an oval biner and a yates shorty screamer on it, it's good to go!
BTW.. is that a an old Clog? SMC, Chounard? hex? (have some similar ones hanging above my fireplace).

Why I really dropped into the lab was..
I heard a rumor that sungam is going to be visiting the Alberta Rockies soon?

http://www.safercliffs.org/code/photos.html

Here is a whole museum of pics of bad bolts, anchors and carrots that have been pulled out and replaced.

Old school carrots are not glued in. They are filed down to look like an actual carrot.

Girth hitch (i presume you me clove hitch) the rope in series WTF!? where is the equalisation there?

It takes no longer to rig than most anchor setups.

I'm guessing he meant "clove hitch" not "girth hitch".

There is none, and often none is needed. I brought a partner up on a bomber 3" nut and a slung chickenhead the size of my forearm last weekend. No need to equalize that.[

Bullshit.
Cordalette: 2, 3, or 4 pieces, one knot, shitty equalization.
Equallette: 2, 3, or 4 pieces, one knot per piece, excellent equalization.
The anchor pictured: 4 pieces, six knots, shitty equalization + force amplification due to angle.

BTW.. is that a an old Clog? SMC, Chounard? hex? (have some similar ones hanging above my fireplace).

You can call BS all you want but I normally use this method even despite having a cordalette sitting on my harness. I find it just as fast.

Hey Phibox,

Thanks for chiming in and clarifying the whole "carrot" thing.

So you guys don't call them carrots anymore? What do you call the mechanical/chemical bolts now?

*shrug* I don't much care about your chosen method of anchoring. I'm simply pointing out you're full of shit for saying you can rig six knots on four pieces of gear anywhere near as fast as your average climber can rig a cordolette. So you're slow building anchors. That's fine. I'm not likely to end up behind you on a climb so carry on.

Not quite. This is a rivet:
[image]http://www.fixeusa.com/images/products/bolts/buttonhead_300x373.gif[/image]

Having climbed in a quite a few different countries (US, UK, Australia, SA, France, Spain and Italy) you often find that there are different ideas about techniques and safety in different countries. I think it comes down to the climbing culture and history of that country. Argue till you're blue in the face, but people who learnt to climb within a particular climbing culture will always think that their way is superior to yours.

As for the original anchor, it basically looks OK, if you are used to setting up this kind of anchor it can be done quickly. I do have two issues with it.

1 the guy in the photo appears to be attached to one of the anchors rather then the master point. If this anchor was to fail it looks like he would then load the second anchor

2 the angle at which the ropes are tied in to the locking biner.

The original anchor looks like all pieces are all in the same crack or feature. By the book, that's supposed to be bad, but the rock itself looks decent.

The original anchor looks like all pieces are all in the same crack or feature. By the book, that's supposed to be bad, but the rock itself looks decent.

Nope. That is NOT a rivet. That is a classic rawl drive button head split shaft bolt.

A rivet, at least in Yosemite, is a standard machine bolt pounded into a hole.

DMT

I'm not asking you to care about my chosen method of anchoring. But why you feel the need to insult me simply because you prefer a cordalette over the climbing rope somewhat baffles me.

Even if you nailed your lengths first try you can't tie six knots in equal or less time than it takes to tie a single overhand. If you find that insulting, well, life is often difficult.

BD hex on 1/4 inchers with a wing nut on. Aint the Fishers grand? Plenty of driven stars on that pitch, too.

It is true, indeed, that I shall be arriving in canadia in no less then 3 days!
Calgary shall be my point of arrival. Shall we make like a banana and climb something?

Edit: CT.

Not quite. This is a rivet:

Newer climbers just call everything that is a bolt a carrot, as they tend not to have any contact with the original installers of these things.

The guy in the picture is the follower. The belay was redirected through the piece out of the picture on the left. The belayer is attached to the powerpoint via a sling.

The crossloading is not that severe, and the master 'biner is not going to get shock loaded. I'd have no concerns about this.

I can't figure out why there's keyhole hanger on the master 'biner.

Presuming the pieces are good, that achor is bomber.

And if using the rope to build the anchor bothers you, grow up.

Was this directed at me or just replying to the thread?