Is there anybody TR soloing only with two clove hitch on rope I searched the forum and found little information about it.I think compared with the yosemite two mini-traxion style that the clove method have some shortage as below:
1) There is one till two rope loop beside you when climing,maybe it prevent you moving and catch your leg when falling and you have to take the weight of the rope belowe clove hitch.
2) You have to unclip pre clove hitch ,tie a new,then clip in,most time only by one hand.even more complicated than leading.
3) The ff may be 0.5 and the compact force is 400KG when coming near the top.Some time you’ll fall 3 meters.the max value is the half compared with leading.
Although clove hitch method have many shortage,it is worth to have a try..you must care for not falling and do some action by one hand.All these are useful training for leading. do you agreeof corse the cliff must have no rock sticking out.

kifoa

[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/oldclymr2/080510%20Granite%20Carson%20Pass/DSC08437.jpg[/IMG]

A few hundred rope lengths on this rig has me convinced the ~ $100 investment for the mini traxes was worth it. With the chest sling attachment keeping the upper trax in tension on the rope, the fall potential is nil.

Your other points about cloves seem appropriate, pro and con. I guess it depends on what you are trying to accomplish...

In my case I wanted to be able to set up a top-down rap rope on some crag and then yo-yo pitches repeatedly, like laps in the gym. I have 4 main criteria:

1. Safety - A. its got to work, duh. And as importantly B. I have to have faith that it will work. I got to 'A' fairly quickly, 'B' took more time.

2. I wanted a self-feeding mechanism. So long as the rope is weighted, this rig IS self-feeding.

3. Quick turn-around top and bottom - my mark is no longer than a minute to switch from climb to rap mode and back again. I employ a 3rd locker on my belay loop for this purpose - and use a grigri for rapping.

4. No rope shredding - I am not using my rig to try to advance my grades per se, for me its more like the climbing equivalent of jogging - training and just plain fun doing workout laps, etc. So I am not hucking off all the time, if I were I'm not sure I would use the exact same rig. Its a little 'teethy' for my taste.

[IMG]http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad72/oldclymr2/080510%20Granite%20Carson%20Pass/DSC08435.jpg[/IMG]

Now you'll probably die if you try any of this and my use is by no means an endorsement nor encouragement to you to try it. You are on your own in every respect, when you go soloing.

DMT

Is there anybody TR soloing only with two clove hitch on rope I searched the forum and found little information about it.I think compared with the yosemite two mini-traxion style that the clove method have some shortage as below:
1) There is one till two rope loop beside you when climing,maybe it prevent you moving and catch your leg when falling and you have to take the weight of the rope belowe clove hitch.
2) You have to unclip pre clove hitch ,tie a new,then clip in,most time only by one hand.even more complicated than leading.
3) The ff may be 0.5 and the compact force is 400KG when coming near the top.Some time you’ll fall 3 meters.the max value is the half compared with leading.
Although clove hitch method have many shortage,it is worth to have a try..you must care for not falling and do some action by one hand.All these are useful training for leading. do you agreeof corse the cliff must have no rock sticking out.

kifoa

You are like the Professor of Complicated Bullshit Ideas. If you are too cheap to buy a minitrax or put together another similar set-up, just pre-tie some butterfly knots in the rope and clip into them as you climb. Tying all those cloves one handed will be a huge pain, and you might end up mis-tying them at some point due to fatigue. Not coincidentally, that's probably also when you are most likely to test your system by falling on it. See the problem?

You are like the Professor of Complicated Bullshit Ideas.

As far as the multiple minitrax go, why do you need two? I realize that this will grab reliably, but if you break the primary because you fall whats to keep the second one from failing as well? Why not some other combo? I'm not sure this is really a "redundant" system as far as all modes of failure are concerned. Though I'm always interested in other people's systems. It seems to me if all you are doing is TR soloing than paying for 2 minitraxions is somewhat unnecessary. Allthough outside of a hitch and pulley combo, you're probably likely to spend just as much money on another mechanical solution to the problem.
The gri-gri solution isn't perfect (because of feeding), but much more reliable in terms of a backup in my opinion. Though a gri-gri isn't LESS expensive than a mini-trax.
Not picking on you dingus, just trying to think through a system new to me. Thanks for sharing, expecially with pictures!

I am suprised nobody ever mentions using a Petzl Shunt (no teeth, it shows how to do it in the instructions, http://www.petzl.com/...HUNT_B03200-07-1.pdf) or the Trango Cinch (feeds better than the grigri).

So what's your experience with the Shunt? Got some pictures of your rig?

DMT

I am suprised nobody ever mentions using a Petzl Shunt (no teeth, it shows how to do it in the instructions, http://www.petzl.com/...HUNT_B03200-07-1.pdf) or the Trango Cinch (feeds better than the grigri).

Just FYI, Trango doesn't recommend using the Cinch for top rope soloing... so, use at your own risk.

Now that I think about it, Petzl doesn't approve of using the Grigri for TR solo either do they?

So what's your experience with the Shunt? Got some pictures of your rig?

DMT

Its probably cheaper, more fun and safer to just con/ bribe a friend or make a new friend through the promise of beers at the end of the day of laps

I see two major issues regarding safety. Folks with more experience may weigh in, as well. First off, the burden of safety checks is entirely on one person. Also, you may be the only one at the crag. It's important to communicate where you'll be and when you'll be back in case you're alone. That said, I'm using a pretty straightforward and redundant system.

Now that I think about it, Petzl doesn't approve of using the Grigri for TR solo either do they?

Is there anybody TR soloing only with two clove hitch on rope I searched the forum and found little information about it.I think compared with the yosemite two mini-traxion style that the clove method have some shortage as below:
1) There is one till two rope loop beside you when climing,maybe it prevent you moving and catch your leg when falling and you have to take the weight of the rope belowe clove hitch.
2) You have to unclip pre clove hitch ,tie a new,then clip in,most time only by one hand.even more complicated than leading.
3) The ff may be 0.5 and the compact force is 400KG when coming near the top.Some time you’ll fall 3 meters.the max value is the half compared with leading.
Although clove hitch method have many shortage,it is worth to have a try..you must care for not falling and do some action by one hand.All these are useful training for leading. do you agreeof corse the cliff must have no rock sticking out.

kifoa

Just FYI, Trango doesn't recommend using the Cinch for top rope soloing... so, use at your own risk.

Now that I think about it, Petzl doesn't approve of using the Grigri for TR solo either do they?

hey qwert, how do you rig it so that your prussik is self feeding?? Do you just rig so that the basic pushes it up the line?

Yes.
I have the prussik above the basic.
It is indeed self feeding, since the top surface of the basic (and probably a few other ascenders) pushes the prussik quite good. It does add some friction however, so sometimes a bit of added weight on the rope at the bottom of the route is needed.

Another bonus of the prussik is, that it probably avoids the number one causes for actually needing a backup, since it protects the entry of the ascenders cam quite good.

qwert

Yes.
I have the prussik above the basic.
It is indeed self feeding, since the top surface of the basic (and probably a few other ascenders) pushes the prussik quite good. It does add some friction however, so sometimes a bit of added weight on the rope at the bottom of the route is needed.

Another bonus of the prussik is, that it probably avoids the number one causes for actually needing a backup, since it protects the entry of the ascenders cam quite good.

qwert

I have to wonder if the prusik can grab the rope if - worst case here - the ascender shears (cuts) the rope. Not much one can do about that failure mode except be tied periodically to a second line.