Is this the safest, cheapest multiple anchoring system for securing yourself at the top of a pitch? Or I am over-looking something here? It doesn’t make sense why companies can get away with selling $30 personal anchoring systems (looped daisy chains) when you can accomplish total safety in a “fairly” light, cost effective P.A.S. with a little creative know-how.

This is a really simple and seemingly effective method to get straight in to the wall. I took 20 feet of webbing (you could get away with 15) and connected both ends together with a water knot. Then I girth hitched the long loop in through my harness in a way so I had two separate looped ends, each an arms length.

In the pictures below you can see I tied an overhand knot at the end of each separate strand. Then I daisy chained each strand and clipped the last loop with a locking carabiner. I then clipped the biner into the last loop of the chain allowing you to unclip this and extend the chain quickly.

I have my biners clipped to my harness around the waist belt. They aren’t in the way much and feel lighter than a similar system with girth hitched 7-8mm cordalette(s).

The main goal as I see it is to be able to quickly secure yourself to more than one piece of gear/protection/ bolt etc. so if one piece fails the system is still loaded on the other second or third piece.

I can’t seem to think of any reason NOT to use this system. It reminds me of the system used in zip-line guide and high ropes course tethers. Again, I haven’t used this off the ground and am still scratching my head wondering if I am missing something?

i think it's versatile for securing yourself to an anchor regardless of the type of climbing.

I was just doubting myself because the system is really simple. That, and I wanted to verify if one end failed, the other end of the girth hitch would still hold.

Yah bill, it doesn't take long around here to sum up a lot of this forum activity as wordy banter! thanks for the sarcastic insight.

The type of climbing one is doing is important, I'm just starting out on the sharp end with easier sport routes, mainly single pitch.i think it's versatile for securing yourself to an anchor regardless of the type of climbing.

I was just doubting myself because the system is really simple. That, and I wanted to verify if one end failed, the other end of the girth hitch would still hold.

Just seemed like such an easy thing, I was hoping someone may use a similar rig and be able to talk about it in a few thousand words or less!

I can't tell very well from pictures, but if I understood the description correctly, your system is safe.

Simple and easy-- not necessarily. For sport climbing, which is all you are doing at the moment, nothing beats the simplicity and the ease of two quickdraws. No extra "stuff" hanging on your harness, nothing extra to buy.

It's certainly not for everybody, but I ended up getting an adjustable daisy for aiding and now use it as my personal anchor most of the time. Being able to adjust length to precisely the length I want, and do so without disconnecting anything is nice. It can be a little dangly and probably adds a few grams though.

Be very careful with a daisy if you're clipping through two (or more) loops at the same time for adjustment.

Be very careful with a daisy if you're clipping through two (or more) loops at the same time for adjustment. If you're not careful, you may only be clipped through the bar-tacks, not through the (rated) material of the sling itself. (The advantage of the PAS over a daisy is that all the loops are rated, so clipping at multiple points is always safe.)

You are referring to a standard daisy chain, but what I am talking about is not the old fashioned daisy but an adjustable daisy. It uses a spring loaded metal length adjuster that is similar to what you see on some tie-downs for trucks. Pinch to extend, release and it grabs. Because it doesn't use loops or bar tacks it avoids the form of failure you described. Also, you can adjust it down to the exact length you want rather than having to pick from increments that are inches apart.

The ring prevents you from going off the end even if you were to slip while holding the adjuster open, and the length can be adjusted without ever disconnecting yourself. You can even yard down on the tail and pull yourself upward using it like a sort of pulley.

[image]http://img1.spadout.org/s/26050.jpg[/image]

Those adjustable daisies are not strong enough to be a good PAS.
You would need to back up with the rope.

Metolius Easy Daisy
Strength: 1.3 kN (300 lbf)
FOR BODY-WEIGHT USE ONLY
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/easy_daisy.html

Yates Daisy Strap
The webbing tests to 1500 lbs.
The buckle is anyone's guess
http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/etriers/#4

The Metolius Easy daisy uses a plastic buckle which I suspect is why their rated impact force is so low.

While the Yates adjustable daisy uses a metal buckle that is undoubtedly much stronger, you raise a good point that it is an unknown.

You could always clip the ring (or loop the ring is attached with) at the end so that the strap will catch you even if the buckle fails entirely. The straps can get worn relatively quickly if you pull it through the buckle without opening it, so there is an extra layer of concern that the strap may not be at it's full rated strength after being used extensively.
Yates also offers a version that comes with a screamer to reduce peak loads in an impact scenario.

All that said, it is not something that concerns me enough to either clip the end of the strap or use a screamer. Maybe I'm gonna die, but like I began with, "it's certainly not for everybody."

Sorry, but the Metolius buckles are not plastic they are most definately aluminum though I don't know what type. Just looking at the thing, I'd guess that the failure mode is that the webbing slips back through the buckle.

You could always clip the ring (or loop the ring is attached with) at the end so that the strap will catch you even if the buckle fails entirely. The straps can get worn relatively quickly if you pull it through the buckle without opening it, so there is an extra layer of concern that the strap may not be at it's full rated strength after being used extensively.
Yates also offers a version that comes with a screamer to reduce peak loads in an impact scenario.

I personally like using the rope itself. Figure 8 on a bite with at least one clove hitch if it's a bolted anchor or two if it's a gear anchor. You can adjust you to the anchor with one of the clove hitches. I know this is not a personal anchor system separate from the rope but it is low tech, simple, saves weight. and the rope stretches more than runners no matter what runners you use. Ck out DMM's testing of runners used at the anchor.

When I aid climb the system does change. I use daisies and the like but I am always aware of the short comings at the anchor.

This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope?

For you it looks like getting off as soon as possible is most important.

What works for one person may not work for another. Choose the system that works best for you as long as it is safe. Redundancy in the system is critical as well as the rated strengths of the gear you are using, e.g. don't use your shoe lace to tie in if it's not rated to do so.

This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope?

The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion.

This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope?

Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing.

That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing.

Josh

I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner.

I don't disagree with that, which is why I don't like the PAS in a free climbing situation. I figure I am already carrying gear that will accomplish the same thing so why carry anything extra?

Josh

I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times.

I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times.

And you like aid climbing with a PAS? Seriously?

Let's face it, the PAS is the right tool for nothing.

For me, the best "personal anchoring system" is the rope, a sling, or two draws, depending on what the situation calls for. It's as simple as that.

GO

I carry an double-length sling and an autoblock cord on every climb. During the ascent I use the rope to anchor off, and during the descent I employ the double-length sling to extend my rappel/belay device and provide a personal anchor.

Like I said, to each their own. I do a lot of aid climbing and I use two PAS and an adjustable fifi hook. Have you done any aid climbing? What type of daisy did you use??